Kijiji, Puppymills and Puppy Brokers......my search for a puppy

[megansmomma]

A little over 5 years ago I began my search for a Yorkie. I have never shared this story before but have wanted to for quite a while and hope by sharing others will learn as I did from my experiences.

We previously had a Lab who was wonderful. Our neighbor had 2 unaltered dogs a female Black Lab and male Golden/Retriever mix~get the idea here. Abby was from their litter and I was very excited to have a puppy for my boys who are now 23 and 21. All I can say about this is that all the neighborhood children get lessons in SEX ED from their breedings~enough said about that. All of these puppies were advertised in the For Sale ads of the newspaper. They 2 more litter from Abby's parents and decided to stop when the owners of the second litter started to call asking if she was going to have more puppies soon because at least 2 needed to be "put down" because their hips were so bad. We had Abby for many year and she was a huge part of our lives. As my boys grew up she romped in the yard, went camping, fishing, whatever we did she went along and was their very best friend. When she passed away as they were entering HS and Megan was very little. This was my first lesson with a BYBer-literally IN THE BACK YARD.

So fast forward~a few years passed and my daughter who is now 14 yrs old wanted so badly a puppy~a Yorkie puppy. At first I resisted, my husband was adamant and the boys really didn't care. But she kept Googling and showing me puppies~every day. She put an adorable puppy on the computer as a wallpaper with the words "I NEED him!" running across the screen. She was really working it!

I decided that maybe another dog wouldn't be such a bad thing and started to look around for breeders online. I really wanted to do this right. But the more that I looked and read the more confused that I became. Then one day she came to me with an Kijiji ad. There was a breeder in Shorewood advertising Yorkies. They were ADORABLE! The Kijiji ad had a link to their website. It had pictures of their family, a daughter that was about Megan's age (get my SN now ) holding the most adorable puppy that you could imagine. There were pictures of their home, a puppy nursery, story how they loved having puppies in their home and that the daughter and her friends all loved being involved. I was drawn back to their ads over and over for several weeks. Watching the ad, going to their website and buying into their story. I already had a puppy fund saving around $800 that seemed to be the going rate for a Yorkie puppy.

In my "research" I knew that I shouldn't buy from just anyone on line and that there were all kinds of evil puppymills that disguised themselves as loving "raised underfoot" breeders. I was NOT going to be tricked by them~so I decided to call the family in Shorewood to inquire about the puppies advertised. I had a list of questions and was prepared. I wanted to know about parents, age of the puppies, testing, you know the drill.

I make the call with knots in my stomach, list of questions in my hand and got the answering machine. A few hours later I got my return call and also a HUGE lesson. The nice man on the phone began by telling me that no all of the puppies that were advertised had been sold.

I asked about the parents and their temperament and he told me that the parents lived with a "really nice breeder in Missouri " (puppymiller)

But there were several others families (puppy brokers) in this area that also had puppies from the "breeder" (puppymiller) and that they all took turns driving down to Missouri to her Kennel (puppymill) to pick up puppies. Did I want their numbers maybe they had some left.

I asked how often the "breeder" had litter of Yorkie puppies. He planned to drive down in about 2 weeks but had to wait until the new puppies were 8 or 9 weeks old. Did I want him to give me a call.

I will break it down:

The puppymill in Missouri had brokers all over the Chicago area. They would drive down to the mill and bring back Yorkies puppies about every 8 weeks to broker out of their homes. The supply was unending and if I was willing to wait a few weeks I could have an 8 weeks old that was sold to the broker by the mill. The brokers all took turns making the 8 hour trip and then divided up the puppies and advertised both on their own websites and Kijiji. They purchased the puppies for a couple hundred dollars and sold the puppies for around $800 which is less then the local pet shop.

Within a few months of this phone call I was asked if I wanted my friends Yorkie puppy (Pebbles). The "breeder" was a HS teacher and sold puppies on the side for extra cash to help pay her bills. The puppy was purchased as birthday present for a 1 yr old and was AKC, 6 months old, and had pretty much been over looked for the past 3 months because well the 1 year old didn't want or know what to do with a puppy. They had paid $600 for her and were willing to rehome her to me free. Within days she was growling at anyone who walked near her food bowl, bit me on the back of my arm and I was told NEVER to bring her back to the groomer at Petsmart because she was aggressive and tried to bite the groomer. and the cycle continues...................

[maryeverett1]

Horrible. Huge lesson. Very eye opening. Hope people will learn from what you went through! How did you find out about the puppy mill selling to brokers? And how crooked and hideous do you have to be to be willing to be in on something that horrific? I think there is a special place in hell for those people and I hope there are dogs dishing out the extra hot punishment. It makes me sad that all dogs aren't as loved and spoiled as mine. Makes my heart hurt today...thanks for being willing to share your story!

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by maryeverett1

Horrible. Huge lesson. Very eye opening. Hope people will learn from what you went through! How did you find out about the puppy mill selling to brokers? And how crooked and hideous do you have to be to be willing to be in on something that horrific? I think there is a special place in hell for those people and I hope there are dogs dishing out the extra hot punishment. It makes me sad that all dogs aren't as loved and spoiled as mine. Makes my heart hurt today...thanks for being willing to share your story!

Basically from the conversation that I had with the guy on the phone. I was very evident that a reputable breeder would not be shipping litter after litter off to be sold in Chicago. There is not a GOOD breeder that would not want to hand pick all of their puppies new homes.

This was the very beginning of my awareness of just how vast of a problem puppymills work. I just made me sick to think of all the puppies that are funneled all over the country and sold to unsuspecting buyers.

I started to read a lot about puppy brokers and how they in addition to puppymills made HUGE money.

[Nancy1999]

What an interesting story, and I loved the part about Megan putting a puppy on the computer as a wallpaper with the words "I NEED him!" running across the screen. Who could resist that?

I really had no idea what a puppy broker was until I came to Yorkietalk, to me this is the lowest of the low, some of them may start out as breeders, but find that brokering dogs is where the real money is found. Some have several different websites that appeal to the buyer who wants a "Classy Teacup", others that appeal to home spun families and have names like "Lil Pumpkin Pups", and others appeal to buyer on the budget, "Rock Bottom Yorkies", different websites, different names, and pictures, and prices, but the same yorkies, from the same puppymillers. Brokers are very savvy today, and probably wouldn't admit to traveling to Missouri to pick up the yorkies, so people have to be more careful than ever. I always recommend visiting the breeder's home, a Yorkie is a 16 year investment, the purchase should not be rushed.

[Ashley V]

It's funny because when we were looking for Chip, we had set out saying that we were going to get him from a reputable breeder. We had anywhere for $750 to $950 to spend, but most of them in our area were about $1500. We looked and looked. I finally found and ad in the washington post online classifieds (I know, I know, bad place) that advertised "Teacup Yorkies" (Red flag #1) that were in our price range. At the time I had no idea there was no such thing as teacups. Hubby gives them a call and they said that they were actually in PA at the moment and all the puppies were sold but one and they would be back with him around noon the next day (Red flag #2). We went up there that day with the intentions of bringing home our first dog together. I was 19 and Adam had just turned 21. We had only been married for 5 months at that point and Chip was Adam's 21st birthday gift. We got up there, knocked on the door, rang the doorbell, and no answer. We put a note on the door and left. We got a call about an hour later apologizing that they were in the basement and they had sold the last puppy in PA the night before. We were really bummed and I was frustrated to tears. We were so desperate for a dog we ALMOST went to Petland!!! We were actually on our way when we get a call from the people again saying they forgot they had a puppy (BIG Red flag #3) and were willing to take $200 off the price for our inconvenience (Red flag #4) if we wanted to take a look at him. Of course we said yes and drove as fast as we could in rush hour traffic to get there. As soon as we walked in the door we saw this adorable little puppy in an ex-pen in the front foyer. He had a cute little blue bow in his hair and was as cute as could be. Adam went to pick him up and Chip scooted backwards from the sitting position and whined. He was petrified. When we were holding him, he just shook all over and wouldn't take any treats from us (Red flag #5). They told us he was going to be able 5 lbs, even though he was 2.6 lbs at "8" weeks old (he was actually only 7 weeks, red flag #6). They told us he was eating Purina Pro Plan for puppies. They gave us a large Ziploc bag full, took our check, and off we went. They never asked us any questions about us or did any background checking, nothing (Red flag #7). We spent I think maybe 30 minutes there before we were out the door with our new puppy. He threw up on the way home (Red flag #8), but I figured he was just stressed. We got him home and he wouldn't eat, barely drank, and would just sit on the other side of the room from us, shaking. When he did explore some, he acted like a scared cat in a new environment. The only person he did warm up to immediately was my friend's 3 month old baby and that's cause she was ignoring him completely. I don't know a whole lot about breeding, but I'm pretty sure a young puppy should not be that scared if it is raised in a proper environment with lots of socialization and love. We left food and water out for him and he seemed only slightly interested. In hindsight I did notice him pick up some of the food, but it would fall out of his mouth (Red flag #9). I didn't realize it then, but he didn't know how to eat solid hard dog food. He threw up once again before the night was over. By this point, he trusted us enough to know we weren't going to hurt him and wouldn't leave our side. We felt bad for him after all he had been threw throughout the day and decided to let him sleep with us, just this one time but were too scared to have him up in the bed, so we put blankets and pillows down and let him sleep between us on the floor. He actually laid there all night long and didn't move but a couple times to potty. I got up, went to work, and was there for a few hours when Adam called me and said he had thrown up about 5 more times, still wasn't eating, and looked very weak. I told him to take Chip to the vet, which we were going to do anyways for his first check up. He took him to the vet and called me again... he said the vet had told him she wanted to do all kinds of tests and mentioned a bunch of illnesses that it could be, all of which were life threatening and would cost a lot of money to treat and care for. We talked and it killed me, but I told Adam there would be no way we could afford a sick puppy and that we should bring him back to the "breeders". We had a 7 day health guarantee (Red flag #10). He agreed and we were both sad. He drove back to the "breeders", which was about an hour away. Adam said that Chip was laying on the passenger seat with his tongue sticking out and mouth open. He gets to this person's house and they immediately give him some wet food and an antibiotic of some sort. Adam said about 5 minutes later, Chip was acting like a completely normal puppy and was playing with their Chihuahua. During this entire time, I had decided that it didn't matter that Chip was "sick" and we would find a way to take care of him. I think I called Adam's phone about a hundred times, bawling my eyes out. He had left his phone in the car, of course. I finally figured after about 2 hours straight of trying to call my husband that it was too late and Chip was probably already signed back over to them. I cried until I couldn't cry any more, when my phone finally rang - it was my husband. I answer the phone and he responds back with a "HIIIIIII!!!!" I asked him how in the world he could be so happy when we just gave Chip back. He then told me that Chip was fine and he was on his way home WITH Chip in the car. Of course, our story doesn't end there - Chip has severe allergies, a "mildly loose knee", and temperament problems. After looking at his papers later and reading a lot on YT, I did a google search for his breeder's name. I didn't find much out other than he was on that USDA list or whatever it's called and that he was an Amish puppymiller from Lancaster, which would explain why the people we got him from were in PA. They were brokers and the man, I learned, after doing some research on him, had spent some time in jail. I did read that someone in the puppymiller's family, who lived next door to Chip's "breeder" had shot almost everyone of his dogs (which was about 100, I believe) because an inspector came by and told him that all his dogs needed to see a vet immediately. My theory is that the family owned this mill and they were all in it together. Chip's mother very well could have been one of those dogs that were shot.

All in all, we both learned a lot from our experience in this and from being on YT. I wouldn't trade Chip for a hundred show quality yorkies and I love him to pieces, but I'll never buy a dog like that again... not without doing my homework and not without doing a lot more research. I could chaulk it up to being young and naive, but I don't think that's the case, because it happens to a lot of people of any age. Since getting Chip and adding Smokey (as a rescue, from a puppymill), I've been doing a lot of learning and educating others about puppymills and brokers. I've helped friends research breeders and point them in the RIGHT direction and gotten involved with rescue adoptions. I've tried turning what was a crappy, horrible situation for both of my dogs into a positive one that is educating for all and next time I get a dog, I'll know better or I'll get a rescue. I think everyone who's had a bad situation should share at some point or another to educate others to avoid the same situation. I think the only way we're ever going to get rid of puppy mills or at least minimize them is for all of us who've had experiences to be active, get involved, and make the public aware of what is really going on. People will listen if enough people talk.

Wow, I really didn't mean to make such a large post.

[Twinkie2Cute]

You know, I want to thank you so much for telling your story. After reading that, I find myself to be very uneducated on the ways puppy mills work. I had no clue something like that existed. I hope after others read your story, they seriously think about where they purchase their puppies. Sure, the price may be right, but ethically speaking, it is so wrong in may ways. Very eye opening!

[Shea-devil]

OH. MY. GOD. That is probably where my shea is from. i found shea in a newspaper...went to the ladys home ( on a beautiful farm...lots of horses, other beautiful animals and 4 of her own dogs) Well, I fell in love with my puppy the second i met her. Should have known better something was a little off..."Where is her mommy?" I asked..."she is a show dog...she is being shown right now" I thought it seemed a little strange that she would already be "back to work" but I ignored my gut feeling and asked "do you have any pictures" She pulled up a couple of pictures of a gorgeous yorkie on her computer...yeah, still seemed weird...where were the home pics? STILL, my dumb self decided to buy my puppy (for 600 dollars) After all, I was in love. Signed a sheet of paper took the paper work she put in a little bag for me and went on with our new puppy on my lap in the car. Soooo, I got home and started looking over the paper work... Dames name dog gone lucky stacy...sires dog gone lucky dave from dog gone kennels in missouri! Wait a minute! I bought Shea from a farm in north west jersey! I look up these names online and no dogs are coming up or anything. So, I look up dog gone kennels missouri...what came up made me so sick to my stomach. Inspection citations and fines to this place because it is a puppy mill and was deemed unclean and unsafe! I was so nauseous. I felt so bad for my baby. I called the lady and she WOULD NOT call back. Then, I text her with the following, " How did you come to get this puppy? I just looked up online and she is from a puppy mill??!! I am so angry! I am so against puppy mills" she texts back "no. no puppy mill." thats it, thats all she says. So I questioned her against 10 times how she came to get this puppy. She doesnt answer. 5 days later she calls me and tells me shea was her friends dogs puppy and she bought the dog from there not knowing the dog was from a puppy mill. Listen, I know I was stupid for not looking into things, but I was not stupid enough to believe that. My puppy had a urinary tract infection when I got her, 2 parasites and ear mites. It took a long while to get her well!

[Shea-devil]

let me rephrase that...the name of the kennel was dogone lucky kennels

[capt_noonie]

Thank you all that have shared your stories. We all need to be more aware of the situation nowadays. I didn't know about brokers before YT and still don't know too much about them.

Who knows Uni could have been from one of those places as well. I got her from a small byb who I thought at the time was a hobby breeder. The mom was not on site, so who knows if she in fact even was the breeder. In fact, the pups were at this lady's place of work! (her company manufactures and imports dog stuff, strollers, beds, clothes, etc) I thought it was weird, but just saw cute puppies and forgot it all. She just showed us a pic of the mom who she said was at her home. Even BIL who was there with us laughed and said, that's just a pic from the internet. And to top it off, BIL knew about some breeders not releasing papers until the dogs were altered. Little did I know those are the good breeders. This particular person did not. But her papers are worthless anyway, I just didn't know it. Thank goodness that Uni does not have a long list of problems like many pups I have read about. So far the worst thing she has is LP, and I'm hoping that's it. Many times these dogs' genetic problems are just ticking timebombs waiting to go off, and the first few years in the clear does not mean all the rest is smooth sailing.

[marcie]

Thank you for telling your stories....what an eye opener.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by Ashley V

All in all, we both learned a lot from our experience in this and from being on YT. I wouldn't trade Chip for a hundred show quality yorkies and I love him to pieces, but I'll never buy a dog like that again... not without doing my homework and not without doing a lot more research. I could chaulk it up to being young and naive, but I don't think that's the case, because it happens to a lot of people of any age. Since getting Chip and adding Smokey (as a rescue, from a puppymill), I've been doing a lot of learning and educating others about puppymills and brokers. I've helped friends research breeders and point them in the RIGHT direction and gotten involved with rescue adoptions. I've tried turning what was a crappy, horrible situation for both of my dogs into a positive one that is educating for all and next time I get a dog, I'll know better or I'll get a rescue. I think everyone who's had a bad situation should share at some point or another to educate others to avoid the same situation. I think the only way we're ever going to get rid of puppy mills or at least minimize them is for all of us who've had experiences to be active, get involved, and make the public aware of what is really going on. People will listen if enough people talk.

Wow, I really didn't mean to make such a large post.

Thank you for sharing your story about how Chip became part of your family. We all need to be a voice and advocate for those that cannot and bring as much awareness to these issues as we possibly can. Both your boys are adorable and could not have found a better place to call home

[Mardelin]

I'm reading all your stories and I shudder...but, I've done the same. In a positive light, you all love your dogs and wouldn't trade them for anything. And I don't think anyone of you would have walked away had you known the real stories behind your dogs....You already fell in love and you were hooked.

Reputable breeders can produce a pup with hereditary issues, the difference between them and bybers/brokers/puppymills, is how they handle the situation

[Jellybears]

Thank you for your post. I did read it all - quite the eye opener. I did not even know about 'brokers' before I read your post. Bottom line - how the heck can a person know what they are getting into. I know there are reputable breeders, but I just can't pay $1200 to $2000. That is why I have been looking on line - around the $800 mark. I also know there are some private families that have nice puppies, well looked after, social little beings! I would definitely want to go to them, not the other way around!!! Any thoughts??

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by Shea-devil

OH. MY. GOD. That is probably where my shea is from. i found shea in a newspaper...went to the ladys home ( on a beautiful farm...lots of horses, other beautiful animals and 4 of her own dogs) Well, I fell in love with my puppy the second i met her. Should have known better something was a little off..."Where is her mommy?" I asked..."she is a show dog...she is being shown right now" I thought it seemed a little strange that she would already be "back to work" but I ignored my gut feeling and asked "do you have any pictures" She pulled up a couple of pictures of a gorgeous yorkie on her computer...yeah, still seemed weird...where were the home pics? STILL, my dumb self decided to buy my puppy (for 600 dollars) After all, I was in love. Signed a sheet of paper took the paper work she put in a little bag for me and went on with our new puppy on my lap in the car. Soooo, I got home and started looking over the paper work... Dames name dog gone lucky stacy...sires dog gone lucky dave from dog gone kennels in missouri! Wait a minute! I bought Shea from a farm in north west jersey! I look up these names online and no dogs are coming up or anything. So, I look up dog gone kennels missouri...what came up made me so sick to my stomach. Inspection citations and fines to this place because it is a puppy mill and was deemed unclean and unsafe! I was so nauseous. I felt so bad for my baby. I called the lady and she WOULD NOT call back. Then, I text her with the following, " How did you come to get this puppy? I just looked up online and she is from a puppy mill??!! I am so angry! I am so against puppy mills" she texts back "no. no puppy mill." thats it, thats all she says. So I questioned her against 10 times how she came to get this puppy. She doesnt answer. 5 days later she calls me and tells me shea was her friends dogs puppy and she bought the dog from there not knowing the dog was from a puppy mill. Listen, I know I was stupid for not looking into things, but I was not stupid enough to believe that. My puppy had a urinary tract infection when I got her, 2 parasites and ear mites. It took a long while to get her well!

Yes, most likely a puppybroker Just to make it even more sad, your baby is safe and loved with you now. What about all of the "breeding stock" back at that horrible mill! May they all rot in he!!

I am so sorry that you also had a horrible experience when bought your little one from that broker. It is a lesson well learn and I thank you too for sharing so that others can learn.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by Jellybears

Thank you for your post. I did read it all - quite the eye opener. I did not even know about 'brokers' before I read your post. Bottom line - how the heck can a person know what they are getting into. I know there are reputable breeders, but I just can't pay $1200 to $2000. That is why I have been looking on line - around the $800 mark. I also know there are some private families that have nice puppies, well looked after, social little beings! I would definitely want to go to them, not the other way around!!! Any thoughts??

Well, I guess my response to you would be to save your money until you have the extra that is required to purchase from a GOOD breeder if you are set on a puppy. You might be saving a few hundred dollars in the beginning but who knows what you will be buying in the future. Dogs from mills and BYBer could have all kinds of issues that will cost you thousands in medical bills in their future. Look into rescue or a rehome from a breeding program of a reputable breeder. There are always members looking to rehome females and at very reasonable prices. Females that have been treated well and then retired are wonderful pups. My Bogey was all grown up when I adopted him and he is the best of the three-just don't tell the other two