color and standard

[gaiasdaughter00]

i really really really don't want to start trouble here..but if people do this for greed and basically "stupidity" (lack of a better nicer term) then why are people on here selling them proudly? tell people who have litters of them that they are blessed and so lucky? I mean i am all for giving them a home they deserve the best, but to buy them just to breed more? like i said i am new to this and i just want to be educated on the whys and what not.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by gaiasdaughter00

i have seen them and read about them, i was just curious about why partis and other colors
well this is what it says on the ytca site:
The AKC Breed Standard and YTCA Code of Ethics do not recognize any [COLOR=black] ......

my questions is why are breeders breeding them saying they are so special if they are not according to the ytca? i am really not trying to start any drama or anything i am just curious.

The YTCA's information above is describing the health problems of blue born yorkshire terriers (no one should be breeding blue yorkies). Other off colors, do not display the above noted issues. Parti, chocolate and golden yorkies are no more prone to health problems, than the standard colored yorkies are.

[gaiasdaughter00]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

The YTCA's information above is describing the health problems of blue born yorkshire terriers (no one should be breeding blue yorkies). Other off colors, do not display the above noted issues. Parti, chocolate and golden yorkies are no more prone to health problems, than the standard colored yorkies are.

okay well that is good to know! i am familiar with boxer white traits and was going to ask that next if color genes carry health problems in yorkies like they do in other breeds like boxers and dobies. i know with dobies as well that hte dilutated have skin issues. (dealt iwth this first hand when i fostered a fawn dobie who was pretty much bald) do you recommend a link on the blues? i am curious as to what they look like?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Just for the record, the standard for adults is steel blue and tan according to the YTCA. Puppies are born black but later turn to steel blue. Black and tan adults are just as off colored as parti's because black coated adult yorkies lack the gene that causes their coats to turn blue. Yorkies who's coats are too light (silver and tan) are also not to standard.

True, but we should always look at the goal of the breeder, please don't forget this, as it's so important. Is that breeder breeding black into the line to improve something else? Or is that breeder marketing the black coated yorkies as "rare black beauties?" No breeder is breeding the Parti colored dog to improve anything in the line, it's nearly impossible to remove the trait from the line.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by gaiasdaughter00

i really really really don't want to start trouble here..but if people do this for greed and basically "stupidity" (lack of a better nicer term) then why are people on here selling them proudly? tell people who have litters of them that they are blessed and so lucky? I mean i am all for giving them a home they deserve the best, but to buy them just to breed more? like i said i am new to this and i just want to be educated on the whys and what not.

Unfortunately, many breeders are on Yorkietalk just to sell dogs, and some even sell their parti colored puppies and carriers and encourage others to breed them. It's a little like a pyramid scheme, get in on the ground floor and you stand to make big money, get in on the top, and you stand to lose your shirts. Either way, it's done for the purpose of selling pets, not to improve the breed.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by gaiasdaughter00

i really really really don't want to start trouble here..but if people do this for greed and basically "stupidity" (lack of a better nicer term) then why are people on here selling them proudly? tell people who have litters of them that they are blessed and so lucky? I mean i am all for giving them a home they deserve the best, but to buy them just to breed more? like i said i am new to this and i just want to be educated on the whys and what not.

Not everyone is breeding for greed, and the “stupidity” comes from the uneducated people who either don’t know or care to understand how recessive genes work. If more people would do their own research on the recessive color genes we see in the yorkies, they’d learn that off colors have appeared in our dogs since the beginning of the breed (through various books, news publications and other writings of the late 1800’s and early 1900’s), they’d learn that even well known, old time breeders have produced off colors in their own litters, and they’d learn that the foundation dogs who’s heritage was un-known, who began this breed may have been the “right” color but it’s anyone’s guess as to what recessive color genes they carried.

The standards were written over 100 years ago - back in the day when recessive genes were not understood like they are today. When an off color appeared in a litter then, it was thought that the wrong stud bred the bitch ... Today we know differently because both parents have to carry the off color recessive gene in order for the color to appear.

The recessive color genes have been in some of our dogs since the beginning and because this is the Yorkshire Terrier BREED, and if AKC registers colors other than blue and tan, I feel that the off colors have just as much a right to being a yorkie, as the perfect steel blue and tan yorkies have. Not all of us are out for greed, some of us are actually trying to perfect the parti (or other off color) yorkshire terrier.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Unfortunately, many breeders are on Yorkietalk just to sell dogs, and some even sell their parti colored puppies and carriers and encourage others to breed them. It's a little like a pyramid scheme, get in on the ground floor and you stand to make big money, get in on the top, and you stand to lose your shirts. Either way, it's done for the purpose of selling pets, not to improve the breed.

And there are many standard yorkie breeders who are on YT just to sell their puppies. Sorry you feel that all parti breeders fall into that category, there are honest people and dishonest people ... it doesn't matter what color yorkie you're talking about (standard or off color).

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by gaiasdaughter00

okay well that is good to know! i am familiar with boxer white traits and was going to ask that next if color genes carry health problems in yorkies like they do in other breeds like boxers and dobies. i know with dobies as well that hte dilutated have skin issues. (dealt iwth this first hand when i fostered a fawn dobie who was pretty much bald) do you recommend a link on the blues? i am curious as to what they look like?

Go to the Colorful Yorkie Website, there are several links to blue born alopecia

CYTC...Our Links

[Cerise]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

And there are many standard yorkie breeders who are on YT just to sell their puppies. Sorry you feel that all parti breeders fall into that category, there are honest people and dishonest people ... it doesn't matter what color yorkie you're talking about (standard or off color).

She didn't say all parti breeders

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

And there are many standard yorkie breeders who are on YT just to sell their puppies. Sorry you feel that all parti breeders fall into that category, there are honest people and dishonest people ... it doesn't matter what color yorkie you're talking about (standard or off color).

You are right, it very difficult to find a good breeder PERIOD. There may be some Parti breeders who aren't breeding because it's the latest fad, however, I believe that we have more than enough pets available already and breeding should have a purpose. I think breeding should be done only to preserve and improve the breed. If most breeders were able to produce a Yorkie with the proper coat, I might not be so stringent, and think variety in colors would be nice, but truth is very few can produce this coat, it's a difficult coat to achieve even among show breeders. Why add variety, until we have achieved the proper coat? This is where I believe Parti breeders are harming the breed.

[BellaDonna]

I would love any of them but the truth is MARKETING.
If a dog is born and technically its the wrong color, you call it RARE
If it is actually to small to fit standard you call it TeaCup.
That way you can sell it and oddly enough you get more than you would if the dog was perfect in every way.
The trick is to make it seem like something uber special and unique. Human beings are easy to manipulate.

The truth is all creatures have their special qualities that make them perfect for someone.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Unfortunately, many breeders are on Yorkietalk just to sell dogs, and some even sell their parti colored puppies and carriers and encourage others to breed them. It's a little like a pyramid scheme, get in on the ground floor and you stand to make big money, get in on the top, and you stand to lose your shirts. Either way, it's done for the purpose of selling pets, not to improve the breed.

I daresay there maybe some who think they can get rich quick selling traditional yorkies too and we all know that is not the case either.. anyone who has been breeding dogs only HOPES to come out close to even.. I've been breeding the Biewers for 5 years.. it hasn't happened yet and guess what.. I got in on the ground floor.. I'm here to shout it out loudly and clearly YOU ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE BIG MONEY!!! You are going to loose friends, you are going to have to pull up carpet and replace furniture.. your house is going to be filled with x-pens and air purifiers.. bleach and paper towels.. you will not be able to go on vacation or sleep past 6:30 and your children and husband (if he stays) will think your NUTS! .. they maybe right.

MOST Biewer breeders and Parti breeders are every bit as responsible and respectable and reputable as the above poster! They breed with just as just heart and care and dedication.. they breed for ALL of the things she breeds for .. the health, the personality, the ear set, the tail set, the top line, the size.. the movement .. AND we have the added challenge of color placement along with correct texture.. believe me, this is a constant battle.. can you imagine the total joy when it finally looks like you get all of those things RIGHT!! It's the SAME joy you feel when it happens to you.

Why would you .. how could you cheapen what we do compared to what you do?

We are doing the same thing you are doing.. we are breeding for the same exact things.. looking for the same exact things.. the only diffence is the coat color..

Unless my dogs are going to a personal friend or club member on a contract, I neuter EVERY male before he leaves my home.. do you do that? EVERY female goes out on a strict spay contract.. I test EVERY puppy, EVERY parent for LS, liver issues, patella's etc .. do you? I DNA both parents.. we are responsible with our dogs our lines.. our futures!

I'm sorry.. but you have NO right to compare us to Shaklee Salesman. We are no different than you. We are breeders and we take it seriously.

Don't be afraid to open your mind just a bit to different possiblities.. it's OK.

Diana

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by anevarez

Although I know very little about the parti's I do know that a "normal" looking yorkie can be a parti gene carrier. AKC does not recognize parti's but parti's are recognized as Biewer Yorkies in Europe. Please do a google search on Biewer yorkies. They are quite beautiful and you may get better information there.

AKC most definitely recognizes partis. They have determined that the parti color is a naturally occuring color in the Yorkshire Terrier. They YTCA says the color is a fault so they cannot be shown.

Most yorkies, regardless of color, have a fault and do not qualify for the show ring. The parti colior is just a more obvious fault than other faults.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

I daresay there maybe some who think they can get rich quick selling traditional yorkies too and we all know that is not the case either.. anyone who has been breeding dogs only HOPES to come out close to even.. I've been breeding the Biewers for 5 years.. it hasn't happened yet and guess what.. I got in on the ground floor.. I'm here to shout it out loudly and clearly YOU ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE BIG MONEY!!! You are going to loose friends, you are going to have to pull up carpet and replace furniture.. your house is going to be filled with x-pens and air purifiers.. bleach and paper towels.. you will not be able to go on vacation or sleep past 6:30 and your children and husband (if he stays) will think your NUTS! .. they maybe right.

MOST Biewer breeders and Parti breeders are every bit as responsible and respectable and reputable as the above poster! They breed with just as just heart and care and dedication.. they breed for ALL of the things she breeds for .. the health, the personality, the ear set, the tail set, the top line, the size.. the movement .. AND we have the added challenge of color placement along with correct texture.. believe me, this is a constant battle.. can you imagine the total joy when it finally looks like you get all of those things RIGHT!! It's the SAME joy you feel when it happens to you.

Why would you .. how could you cheapen what we do compared to what you do?

We are doing the same thing you are doing.. we are breeding for the same exact things.. looking for the same exact things.. the only diffence is the coat color..

Unless my dogs are going to a personal friend or club member on a contract, I neuter EVERY male before he leaves my home.. do you do that? EVERY female goes out on a strict spay contract.. I test EVERY puppy, EVERY parent for LS, liver issues, patella's etc .. do you? I DNA both parents.. we are responsible with our dogs our lines.. our futures!

I'm sorry.. but you have NO right to compare us to Shaklee Salesman. We are no different than you. We are breeders and we take it seriously.

Don't be afraid to open your mind just a bit to different possiblities.. it's OK.

Diana

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by gaiasdaughter00

i have seen them and read about them, i was just curious about why partis and other colors
well this is what it says on the ytca site:
The AKC Breed Standard and YTCA Code of Ethics do not recognize any
other color dogs than noted above. This includes all gold, born blue, liver
(also known as red or chocolate), and parti-colors. One of the reasons for
avoiding breeding "off-colored" Yorkies is because it could be a genetic defect
that may affect the dog's health. Some health problems can include, but aren't
limited to, severe skin problems, allergies, total hair loss and in some cases
long-term illness and/or death.
A responsible breeder will not intentionally breed for undesirable traits.
On very rare occasions, a breeder will have a puppy born with a color anomaly.
That puppy should undergo careful health screenings before being placed in a
spay/neuter (non breeding) home. A breeder should certainly never
promote these deviations as being desirable or rare.

my questions is why are breeders breeding them saying they are so special if they are not according to the ytca? i am really not trying to start any drama or anything i am just curious.

You can look at a parti colored yorkie and readily see it's fault. MOST yorkies being bred have faults. They might be the correct color and coat texture but have the wrong eye set or ear set or legs too long or any number of things that are not noticable to the untrained eye.

They might be perfect on the outside but have issues on the inside.

Parti and Biewer breeders have a lot of money invested in their dogs. They take their breeder responsibilities very seriously.

The YTCA sets a standard by which yorkies are judged in the show ring. They did not create the yorkie.