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-   -   docking tails for yorkies illegal (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/185910-docking-tails-yorkies-illegal.html)

SnugsColeman 10-04-2009 03:39 PM
Hummmm......
 
My sister and brother in law docks tails on thier own.... I will take mine to the vet. They know what they are doing they done it many times but I just can not do it.....so I will have my vet to do it for me.....

Nancy1999 10-04-2009 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by manina (Post 2826412)
I was in Ny this summer in Central Park and every yorkie I saw had their tails done. When did it became illegal and who would police that.
bark@ulater!!!!!
manina,miley:aimeeyorkmax:aimeeyorksasha:aimeeyork
It's still legal for vets to do it. The law merely restricts who may do it.

Quote:
On Aug. 27, (2009) Governor Rendell signed into Pennsylvania law a measure designed to protect dogs from undergoing painful surgical procedures at the hands of unskilled owners. Under the new law, only licensed veterinarians can dock tails, crop ears, debark, remove dew claws and perform caesarian births.

Average pet owners are shocked to learn that these are common practice at commercial breeding facilities -- untrained kennel help wielding a knife to make puppy pretty for its new home or silencing a breeding animal by jamming a rod down its throat. It happens and it hurts. All to save a buck. New law restricts tail docking and ear cropping -- themorningcall.com

Nancy1999 10-04-2009 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2826452)
It's still legal for vets to do it. The law merely restricts who may do it.
Oh never mind, that's Pennsylvania, not New York, I can't seem to find the "facts" on the New York law yet, different sites are saying different things.

Nancy1999 10-04-2009 04:05 PM
Here's one site that says a new Bill has been introduced, it does not say it has been made into a law yet, if it does it would go into effect in August of 2009.,

Quote:
New York Bill Targets Dog Tail Docking
Practice would carry a fine of up to $500 with passage of new state legislation.
Posted: April 8, 2009, 5 a.m. EDT




Docking dog tails may carry a fine of $500 in New York with the passage of a new bill that seeks to make the practice unlawful.

New York State Assembly Bill 7218 states that any person who cuts the bone, tissues, muscles, or tendons of the tail of any dog is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by not more than $500. The measure does not apply to dogs who have been certified as tail docked prior to Aug. 1, 2009.

As written, AB 7218 calls for making all instances of tail docking unlawful, except those deemed necessary by a duly licensed veterinarian to protect the life or health of a dog. In addition, it would make anyone who shows or exhibits a dog with a cut or altered tail subject to a misdemeanor charge, punishable by a fine of up to $500.

Proponents say the enactment of this bill would ensure that dogs are not caused unnecessary risk and pain by cosmetic tail docking. Opponents, including the American Kennel Club, say owners, in close consultation with their veterinarians — not the government — should make informed decisions about their pets' healthcare.

This bill has been referred to the New York Assembly Agriculture Committee. New York Bill Targets Dog Tail Docking

Here's the actual bill. Bills and it says "Any person who shows or exhibits a dog whose tail has been docked or altered, at a show or other exhibition, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable as above."

I can't believe that we haven't heard more about this.

livingdustmops 10-04-2009 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2826476)
Here's one site that says a new Bill has been introduced, it does not say it has been made into a law yet, if it does it would go into effect in August of 2009.,




Here's the actual bill. Bills and it says "Any person who shows or exhibits a dog whose tail has been docked or altered, at a show or other exhibition, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable as above."

I can't believe that we haven't heard more about this.
It didn't pass.

JeanieK 10-04-2009 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2826452)
It's still legal for vets to do it. The law merely restricts who may do it.
That is PA In NY it is illegal. They have to go to NJ to get it done.

livingdustmops 10-04-2009 04:34 PM
Jeannie - you might want to read this article...Bill 7218 introduced April 09 in New York DID NOT PASS.

AKC, Dog Clubs Roll Over On Ear Cropping, Tail Docking, Animal Rights, editorial by Andrews

greyacresmom 10-04-2009 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2826476)
Here's one site that says a new Bill has been introduced, it does not say it has been made into a law yet, if it does it would go into effect in August of 2009.,




Here's the actual bill. Bills and it says "Any person who shows or exhibits a dog whose tail has been docked or altered, at a show or other exhibition, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable as above."

I can't believe that we haven't heard more about this.
I agree with this but it will never work. The westminster kennel club has their show in NY. So would they all be fined for docked tails? Uhhh..doubt it.

Nancy1999 10-04-2009 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2826494)
It didn't pass.
So have they dropped it all together, or are they still trying to pass it?

livingdustmops 10-04-2009 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2826512)
So have they dropped it all together, or are they still trying to pass it?
I am not sure...very little written about it and it took a while for me to even find out it did not pass...Not sure what is going on?

Nancy1999 10-04-2009 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by greyacresmom (Post 2826508)
I agree with this but it will never work. The westminster kennel club has their show in NY. So would they all be fined for docked tails? Uhhh..doubt it.
Yeah this puzzled me too, there is no way they could have the show in New York.

Mardelin 10-04-2009 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2826512)
So have they dropped it all together, or are they still trying to pass it?
It was voted on and didn't pass, so it has been completely dropped.

LittlePaws 10-05-2009 04:42 AM
I take the babies to the vet, they are looked over first to make sure all is well. They then use a shot to help numb them. When finished the tiny hole in the paw is covered with a fine blue webbing and the base of the tail is the same. They do cry, but only for a moment and then all is well. I get more whimpers from the first bath or first face trim.

redvalaria 10-05-2009 06:50 AM
I got Hamish in the UK when I lived there and he has his tail...and I love it.

Fergus is docked, because that is the standard.

But, I had a great dane from the UK who had his tail and uncropped ears and he was 2000% more beautiful than the mutilated babies on this side of the pond.

Eventually, the laws will change. We are one of the only FIRST WORLD countries that sill allows mutilation for the sake of "beauty".

I liken it to this: if pinky fingers fell "out of fashion" would you have your child's removed?? They aren't all that useful for anything, they often get hurt when they are playing....you can live a perfectly normal life without them (which is all the excuses dog people give for docking and cropping)? just lop them off! if you do it at birth they hardly feel a thing!

Eventually this country will decide to join the first world, though it will come slowly and with a price.

bailie 10-05-2009 07:13 AM
according to the akc great danes with cropped tails is disqualified , i dont know about other countries but i never new they even got tails docked, unless its for health reasons like injury,:confused:

hugz4all4 10-05-2009 07:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2826433)
I think about a year ago. But that does not mean you will not see yorkies with docked tails

They just have to go to another state to get it done.

Are you talking about the city of NY or NY state.. cuz Tuckers tail was docked by a vet last october (2008).. and the breeder of Tucks parents had another litter of pups and thier tails were docked in June of this year. :confused:

hugz4all4 10-05-2009 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 2826507)
Jeannie - you might want to read this article...Bill 7218 introduced April 09 in New York DID NOT PASS.

AKC, Dog Clubs Roll Over On Ear Cropping, Tail Docking, Animal Rights, editorial by Andrews

I didnt see this earlier.. I read her post about it being illegal in NY on the first page of posts..so I responded.. oh well..:rolleyes:

hugz4all4 10-05-2009 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redvalaria (Post 2826991)
I got Hamish in the UK when I lived there and he has his tail...and I love it.

Fergus is docked, because that is the standard.

But, I had a great dane from the UK who had his tail and uncropped ears and he was 2000% more beautiful than the mutilated babies on this side of the pond.

Eventually, the laws will change. We are one of the only FIRST WORLD countries that sill allows mutilation for the sake of "beauty".

I liken it to this: if pinky fingers fell "out of fashion" would you have your child's removed?? They aren't all that useful for anything, they often get hurt when they are playing....you can live a perfectly normal life without them (which is all the excuses dog people give for docking and cropping)? just lop them off! if you do it at birth they hardly feel a thing!

Eventually this country will decide to join the first world, though it will come slowly and with a price.

great danes dont generally have thier tails docked?? :confused: Matter of fact, I have never seen one docked and I have friends that own them.

Britster 10-05-2009 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugz4all4 (Post 2827056)
great danes dont generally have thier tails docked?? :confused: Matter of fact, I have never seen one docked and I have friends that own them.
Great Danes have ears cropped though, I think. I don't know about tails.

redvalaria 10-05-2009 09:35 AM
I hadn't had my caffeine yet!

no, GD tails are generally left alone, the point I was making (not that anyone seemed to notice)

is that we are one of the last civilized countries (and in some parts of the world even that statement is suspect) that still allows the mutilation of animals for NON MEDICAL purposes.

there is medical reason to remove dew claws. but there is NO reason to dock a health tail. EVER. There is never any need to crop an ear. Its painful and no more neccessary that chinese foot binding or the stretching of earlobes in certain tribal customs. its for "beauty". and that alone shouldn't be enough reason to mutilate an animal.

:thumbdown

Britster 10-05-2009 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redvalaria (Post 2827172)
I hadn't had my caffeine yet!

no, GD tails are generally left alone, the point I was making (not that anyone seemed to notice)

is that we are one of the last civilized countries (and in some parts of the world even that statement is suspect) that still allows the mutilation of animals for NON MEDICAL purposes.

there is medical reason to remove dew claws. but there is NO reason to dock a health tail. EVER. There is never any need to crop an ear. Its painful and no more neccessary that chinese foot binding or the stretching of earlobes in certain tribal customs. its for "beauty". and that alone shouldn't be enough reason to mutilate an animal.

:thumbdown
I agree!

BamaFan121s 10-05-2009 01:11 PM
I hate seeing this topic come up. It's not that I'm opposed to discussion of the topic, but with the topic always comes generalizations of how the mindset and compassion one national population compares to another as well as the carefully worded underhanded insults. :rolleyes: And the reasons behind so many of rants regarding the practice are so skewed and outlandish, that it's laughable.

Mardelin 10-05-2009 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2827450)
I hate seeing this topic come up. It's not that I'm opposed to discussion of the topic, but with the topic always comes generalizations of how the mindset and compassion one national population compares to another as well as the carefully worded underhanded insults. :rolleyes: And the reasons behind so many of rants regarding the practice are so skewed and outlandish, that it's laughable.
Very delicately put Bama. I too hate seeing this topic come up.

Opening Up The Yorkie Standard to change to docked tail to undocked mmmmm....Since, it's under the control of the YTCA, I don't think it'll happen unless it becomes a National Law.

Britster 10-05-2009 04:11 PM
My question is just this..... why dock tails? WHY? What is the reasoning?
I understand in the past, for working purposes, but most dogs (specifically Yorkies)
are NOT working ratters. So, why the docked tail?

Mardelin 10-05-2009 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britster (Post 2827683)
My question is just this..... why dock tails? WHY? What is the reasoning?
I understand in the past, for working purposes, but most dogs (specifically Yorkies)
are NOT working ratters. So, why the docked tail?
The tail was docked for sanitary reasons and to inhibit injury. It had nothing to do with ratting, the yorkie was removed from a rat hole by the topknot.

BamaFan121s 10-05-2009 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britster (Post 2827683)
My question is just this..... why dock tails? WHY? What is the reasoning?
I understand in the past, for working purposes, but most dogs (specifically Yorkies)
are NOT working ratters. So, why the docked tail?
Why dress dogs up? What is the reason?

Nancy1999 10-05-2009 05:10 PM
I have a problem with using the word "mutilate " to describe tail docking, there are lots of different opinions on this, and I tend to believe those who say if done correctly at the right age causes very little discomfort. Are they lying about this, or are others exaggerating? I really don't know the truth. However, the problem with exaggerating things is that you tend to get people to ignore you on other things. Should tail docking be compared to debarking by ramming a rod down a dogs throat, or a non-medical person doing a cesarean? Tail docking just doesn’t seem to be as barbaric a procedure as some suggest, and laws like this are more likely to get good breeders to just feel like they are being attacked on all fronts, making it even more difficult to get the good laws passed that will indeed protect our dogs.

megansmomma 10-05-2009 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2827740)
I have a problem with using the word "mutilate " to describe tail docking, there are lots of different opinions on this, and I tend to believe those who say if done correctly at the right age causes very little discomfort. Are they lying about this, or are others exaggerating? I really don't know the truth. However, the problem with exaggerating things is that you tend to get people to ignore you on other things. Should tail docking be compared to debarking by ramming a rod down a dogs throat, or a non-medical person doing a cesarean? Tail docking just doesn’t seem to be as barbaric a procedure as some suggest, and laws like this are more likely to get good breeders to just feel like they are being attacked on all fronts, making it even more difficult to get the good laws passed that will indeed protect our dogs.
Excellent! :thumbup:

Mardelin 10-05-2009 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2827740)
I have a problem with using the word "mutilate " to describe tail docking, there are lots of different opinions on this, and I tend to believe those who say if done correctly at the right age causes very little discomfort. Are they lying about this, or are others exaggerating? I really don't know the truth. However, the problem with exaggerating things is that you tend to get people to ignore you on other things. Should tail docking be compared to debarking by ramming a rod down a dogs throat, or a non-medical person doing a cesarean? Tail docking just doesn’t seem to be as barbaric a procedure as some suggest, and laws like this are more likely to get good breeders to just feel like they are being attacked on all fronts, making it even more difficult to get the good laws passed that will indeed protect our dogs.
Agree with you totally Nancy. Do pups suffer discomfort from their tails and dew claws being removed. I believe they do, but it is minimal but, once the procedure is completed and they are placed in a cozy spot, they go right back to sleep.

Britster 10-05-2009 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2827697)
Why dress dogs up? What is the reason?
First, I'm not trying to attack anyone and I'd prefer not to have my question answered with another question. You did not answer what I asked but I will try to answer what you asked. I don't generally dress my dog up (except for certain Holidays where he will maybe wear a t-shirt for my pictures, just as I would dress a child up) but MOST people will say on here on YT that they dress their dog up for warmth. Yorkies get cold and some will shiver, therefore they put a sweater/shirt on them. But of course people dress their dogs up for cuteness too! But I think that putting a shirt on a dog and chopping their tail off are like comparing apples and oranges. I'm not really against tail docking per say and I don't think it's something that will scar a dog for life or is something barbaric and painful or anything. I simply just don't see a point. If tails were docked strcitly for hygeine/health issues, ALL breeds of dogs should have their tails docked and they don't so obviously dogs with tails nowadays don't have health problems because of tails.


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