My opposition is not to tiny Yorkies but to those trying to breed for them. I have two (what I call) tinies myself and they are precious. I 'get' why people are attracted to them. My tinies are 3 and 3 1/2 pounds respectively and I worry about them constantly. To hear of Yorkies down to 1 1/2 pounds is hard for me to even imagine.

This thread isn't about the OP: it was started by the OP. I know I was one of the critical ones but to me the original post was not informative and not very sensible, to put it mildly.

I don't agree with breeding these very small dogs, whether there is a demand or not. It is not only very risky to the dam but what of the pups? To find truly qualified homes for these micro dogs is not easy. An occasional tiny (and I don't mean the micro-mini, itty-bitty ultra tinies) should be enough for a breeder to raise and find homes where these babies can thrive.

One thing that does strike me is this quote from the first post. "when you breed tiny males to bigger females yes you get some smaller dogs and bigger litters but are those small dogs
healthy no they are the runts of the litter the puppies that got the least amount of nutrition inside the mother ".
What's odd about this is that the OP does have some nice champions in her pedigrees. Now, with champions you have to assume that they are not tinies but are in the 4 to 7 pound range. So, how do you get these ultra tiny dogs from such pedigrees without breeding runt to runt? And there's the obvious point that a dog gets its size depending on its genetics and not how much nutrition it gets in the womb. I think most breeders here have seen the runt sometimes catch up with and even outgrow its littermates and sometimes see one of the bigger pups stop growing early and become the runt. It's genetics...not pre-natal nutrition.

LOL, I know I'm rambling now, but it bothers me to see someone come on and post such things. Obvious mis-information about breeding practices should, IMO, be challenged. Geez, what if people believe this stuff?

Breeders, IMO, should strive to breed for the standard. It was put there for a reason, not the least of which is the dog's best interest. If someone wants to profit from the purse puppy fad, that's their business. They can keep it their business by not staring threads justifying it.

P.S. If anyone thinks this thread is about just the differences between show and pet dogs, re-read the first sentence of the first post. "There is a big difference between a show dog and a tiny little pet." This thread is all about breeding for tinies, plain and simple.

garbage dogs:confused:?

What does that mean ?garbage dogs , that means rubbish right?

I agree with your comment. :thumbup: I just think we have to be careful how we give advice or voice our opinions. Some posts I have read seem judgmental instead of giving constructive advice or criticism, especially on the first page. People are not going to listen to our opinions if they think we are judging them. Who could blame them for not wanting to continue posting on the thread even if they started the thread. Nobody wants to be torn down by other saying they are a horrible pet owner or breeder. I think we all can learn that we do not have to agree, and the O.P does not have to take your advice. When people get their facts wrong, other people can tell them nicely without attacking them, one upping them, or being judgmental. People might actually listen to what we have to say. :smile:

I guess I am one of those being called judgemental and maybe I deserve the title because I totally disagree with the practice. I understand that this is a featured seller but I also think that from all I have read on YT that it is not in the best interest of the dams or the betterment of the breed to intentionally breed for tinies. And I was not being judgemental about the fashion statement dogs because the OP herself said there was a demand for purse dogs who can be dressed up. IMHO I don't think just because there is a demand that it makes it right to endanger these little girls to meet it. Also like many other breeds if we keep changing what the standard should look like soon our beloved yorkies will be like the German Shephard and others and not resemble the standard much at all.:(

i dont agree with breeding tiny dogs if it puts the dog's life in danger. i just think that preventing people from breeding for the tinies comes from educating the public to let them know what the health problems the tiny ones tend to have.

milu is my first dog, i can not speak with any authority about dogs. i am learning. from my observation though is that breeders always just say it's a bad idea to breed the tiny ones without ever explaining why it is such a bad idea. yea, it sound kind of like common sense that the tiny dogs are at more risk when they are pregnant and when they whelp. but at the same time, if it really is that bad of an idea. and the issue is truely that black and white. i think that it would be common knowledge that breeding tiny dogs is unsafe/unhealthy/and perhaps deadly for the small dogs. but that is just not the case. i know that my neighbor breeds her TINY dog, and i know that she has other family members that breed TINY dogs. do i think she should do it? probably not. but has she had any problems with breeding her tiny dogs even though she doesn't seem to know anything about it. no. (that is not to say she is not just a very lucky person)

i guess what i am trying to say is that i see breeders here say over and over again not to breed the tinies. most of the reason given is that they are not 'standard' and not for the betterment of the breed. but no one ever explains anything scientific about the tiny dogs having babies. and it just is very unclear why the breeders are against breeding the tinies. they never say anything to explain why it is indeed such a bad idea.

like i said, i think education is the key, but there is not that much education going on everytime there is a debate about breeding tiny yorkies. so, can we please hear something educational/scientific about the pros and cons of breeding tiny dogs. because it seems to me that for as many breeders here that says it's a very bad idea to breed tiny ones, there are a lot of 'lucky' people out there successfully breeding tiny dogs with no problems. why is that?

Only heard the word "garbage dog" as one joking about a dog digging in the garbage.

I did educate myself on this the best I could because I have a niece with a 3lb girl who wanted my Laddy to stud for her. I asked the vet and the breeders here at YT and got the same answers. My vet said absolutely not. That most of the time their uterus is just not what it should be to carry them and that even if they do chances are good that they will need a c-section. It is risking her life. I got the same responses from breeders here on YT. I know in the past before we knew much about spaying and neutering (showing my age now lol) we had a teeny tiny beagle. She was accidently bred to another beagle and bless her little heart did not survive delivery. We are not breeders and were novices she started to bleed so bad because she was just to small we didnt get her to the vet in time. It was horrible to watch this happen to her. Yes I know breeders have lots more knowledge than I had but why chance it. :confused:

ideal vs. reality
 

let's say we all agree that breeding tinies is for sure unsafe. (which i am not sure about because like i said, i am still waiting to hear reasons as to why it IS INDEED unsafe.)

so in an ideal world. no one would breed the tiny dogs. if it is indeed unsafe.

BUT

the reality is that there IS a demand for tiny dogs.

and if there is a demand for it, the truth is some one will do it for the profit.

so given that reality. i really prefer people who have experience and knowledge to do it instead of having puppy mills and back yard breeders do it.

thanks for that. i feel that at least it's a reason why breeding tiny dogs is a bad idea. (as opposed to the 'it's unsafe because i said so' type of FEEL)

so does that mean as long as you do the tests necessary and somehow are able to know that the small dogs uterus is in very good shape, then it is a safe practice.

i just want to say i am not FOR or against breeding tiny dogs. i don't know enough to say either way. i am FOR education. i think we all need to be more informed. :D

i would totally jump on the bandwagon and say that it is a BAD idea to breed tiny dogs as well if i knew just exactly why.

i just feel that breeders hate it so much like there is strong scientific proof that it is so terrible, like smoking, we all know now that smoking is bad, but we also know WHY it is bad.

so i just want to know WHY breeding small yorkies is SOOOOOOO bad.

like i said, i keep reading and reading these posts/threads, but i am still unable to understand the reason why it is so bad. i don't think any breeder ever explains.

most breeder say from experience they know its very bad to breed small dogs. i think experience is VERY important, but is there anything concrete, is there specific cause to the reason why small dogs have problems whelping? like instead of saying, i lost the mom because of complications. can someone explain just exactly what the complication was and why it happened? because complication can happen regardless of size.

someone answer my question please? :D

Yorkiepuppie, you make some good points and asked some fair questions. I'm not sure just how scientific of an answer you'll likely get, but I can give you some my reasons for not breeding for tinies. In no particular order....

1: It just isn't necessary to breed for tinies. Standard size Yorkies can and do produce occasional tinies.

2: It's dangerous for the mother. The risk of c-sections is high. Complications of any sort can be more dangerous for a smaller dog just as any illness can be.

3: Small mothers have small frames. They are delicate and I don't think it's right to put the added weight of babies on their little bodies. To me, it's just asking for joint problems.

4: Qualified homes for tinies are hard to find. For that matter, finding good homes can be a challenge for any breeder. It's just that much harder for the very small ones. Even after you become an adept breeder, finding proper homes is a constant worry and the worry factor goes up for the little ones.

5: If a health issue does come up in a very tiny dog, it is immediately more dangerous due to its small size. The little ones have so little reserve and can have more reactions to vaccines, anesthesia and even blood draws can be difficult. Plus, finding a good vet for the little ones isn't always easy. The risks from a hypoglycemic episode go up as the pups size goes down. How many new owners are prepared for this? Even short-term diarrhea will put more stress on a tiny. De-hydration can come quickly.

I'm sure there's many more that others can add. It's late and I'm probably missing obvious things. The thing about this discussion is what do you mean by tinies? To me, a tiny dog is around 3 pounds but here we've seen mention of 1 1/2 pound grown dogs. Why anyone would want something that small is beyond me. I think you've posted that you have a 3 pound dog. Can you imagine one half that size?

Well, not too scientific, but that's the way I see it...at least at 3 in the morning. :p

thank you for this post. makes sense. i definitely want to hear MORE!!! from you when it's not so late (or early) and from everyone who says it's a bad idea.

i am soaking it all up like a sponge! hehe :D