Sever Aggression Issues - Considering Rehoming Unless Someone Has Miracle Advice...

[Martin0327]

Originally Posted by Gypsy & Me

This is not an easy post to write since re-homing is a such a sore subject with many on YT. This is very hard for me and I have spoke regularly with my friends regarding how bad the aggression is.

I hope someone can give me some amazing advice as I have reached the point where I do not see another alternative.

Honestly if you're going to jump on me about it then please write the post, then delete it all before hitting submit. This is hard enough already.

Gypsy and Kayla have both had the odd moment where a little fight has broken out over a toy, food, over excitement, etc. It's been nothing more than a lot of noise and me simply shouting at them has always stopped it straight away. Overall they used to get on fine, would sit/lay together, sleep together, could eat near each other. Then this past month it's got worse and I'm completely at my wits end with them.

For example, here's some instances that have happened just this past 3/4weeks...

- play fighting suddenly resulted in an all out fight with me having to pull them off each other

- both happily playing fetch in the front room, next minute full on fight, (right at Amelia's feet), I've grapped Kayla and Gypsy is hanging off Kayla's throat. I managed to seperate them, getting my finger bit in the process and Kayla ended up with gash in the side of her neck that was pretty big.

- playing tug with a toy then next thing I know they are fighting. I grapped Kayla and Gypsy was still flying at her. I pushed Gypsy away, she landed on the floor, got up and launched herself at Kayla again. Had to restrain Gypsy and force Kayla the other side of the baby gate to seperate them till they calmed down. Again, this was all with Amelia in the room.

There's been more than these, those are just the worse ones. I'm not talking about all noise, I'm talking full on going for the throat and wanting to tear each other apart. Every time Amelia is in the room who then starts screaming and wanting me to pick her up so she's trying to climb me because she's scared and I'm trying to pull the girls off each other... how long till she's the one that gets bit?

This isn't the only problems.... there's more... aggression towards Amelia...

- Kayla will be laying on the sofa, Amelia will come over to climb up and Kayla will snap at her. There is NO excuse for this at all... It's not her hands or her fingers she's going... it's her face. She's not making contact, so she's not biting her but I no longer trust that she won't at some point.

- if Amelia is playing with Kayla then Gypsy will suddenly start barking and I'm not entirely sure what she plans on doing next but I end up picking Amelia up and moving her away from Kayla.

I'd like to point out that Amelia NEVER teases, pulls, hits the girls EVER. She will throw toys for them, they will play fetch with her, she sneaks them food and she plays chase with them but only when they instigate it. Amelia has not been bitten but it has came close to that. If Amelia gets bit and I have to take her to the ER, something much worse that re-homing could happen, i.e PTS in the case of a child being bitten by a dog. I cannot bare the thought of that.

I don't think I can go a day without some kind of fight breaking out whether it's a small brawl with all noise and I can break it up with my voice or an outright kill-each fight.


So what have I done? Everything I can think of... I've tried seperation, crating, squirting water, aversion, etc... I just don't know anymore.

I just had to re-home my girl too. For severe aggression as well, all those things you describe sound familiar to me. I tried to work with Arizona on it but there was no improvement. Ace wouldnt even defend himself against her. It was just moments til Ace would have had a gash and he is less then 3 lbs so Im not sure he would be able to handle that. I also have a toddler that I would admit in a heartbeat he was being too rough with her....if he was. I was always there when he was around. He was only allowed to pet them if they were on my lap. They almost always are...All my son had to do was walk up to me and Arizona would just go crazy with growling and snaping.

Im sorry I have no advice to give you on how to fix it because obviously I failed but I can tell you is that you need to do what is best for your family and your other pets. There are just some pets that can only be placed in certain homes. If you have ever looked and your local shelter website, most post things such as no kids, no other pets, or both.

Everyone here is doing well and I know Arizona is doing well because I have been keeping in touch with their new family. It hurts but I tried.

Good luck, I wish you the best. Keep us posted.

[Gypsy & Me]

Originally Posted by yorkiepaws

I know you would hate to re home them, but you also have to look out for the best interest of your baby. Maybe as the previous poster suggests you could get a professional trainer to assess the situation. I had a friend who had a boston terrier and she had the same problem with the dog and her new baby. The dog would lunge at the baby when it was crawling. They did end up having to re home him.

I'm lucky that the girls have always been fine with Amelia up till this point. Gypsy is still fine and Kayla is most of the time. I think that Kayla snaps at Amelia when she's trying to sleep, (Kayla not Amelia), and she thinks Amelia is going to do something. Almost like she is unsettled when Amelia is around and she's trying to relax.

But it sounds like your pups are mostly agressive with each other. I hope that somehow you can find someone that may be able to help you so you can keep them. Keep us posted.

Exactly, it's mainly towards each other and for 99% of the time they are actually fine with each other. When they do go for each other though it's like they are going to kill each other.

Originally Posted by luckylady

Vicky.......you will get no unkind words from me. I know first hand how difficult rehoming can be as I went through it with Lexie late last year. She suddenly decided she hated Halle to the point of drawing blood, & I too tried everything I could to change things...even contemplated keeping them separated 24/7 (taking turns with family time), but even that didn't seem right for us. Lexie is now with a family where I am confident and happy that she is very loved and living the life as top (and only) dog of the house. I'm sure she is much happier that way.
So do what you think is right or what you feel is necessary for everyone concerned. As difficult as rehoming is, it may be the right choice in the long run. The only idea I have for why this is happening and/or what to do would be that I've read that sudden aggression issues sometimes come up when a dog possibly has a hidden health issue. Have you thought about that? Maybe a trip to the vet for tests of some sort is needed to be sure there isn't a problem causing the aggression before deciding to rehome.
I know you must be so stressed and sad; good luck with your decision.

Thanks Rose. This isn't something that even crossed my mind. I will make an appointment for both of them to see the vet next week.

Originally Posted by alaskayorkie

Vicky, I sent you a long e-mail that I got from a licensed behaviorist one time when Eddie and Jack were having problems. Actually, they were all Eddie's problems and Jack was the victim.

The situation was a little different than yours because both were neutered and it was clearly a resource guarding issue for Eddie.

I'm not sure it will help, but it's all the advice I have.

Try not to stress. I know you'll make the right decision. If Amelia's safety is at the slightest bit of risk, no one in the world would second-guess you for rehoming if that's what you decide to do.

Mike, thank you. I've read your email and that is actually something that I haven't tried to I will try it. I may have to speak to you a little about it if that's okay.

[Gypsy & Me]

Originally Posted by TrevorForever

As much fun as we have had taking about Yodi, I do have a serious side....I'm really very sorry for the trouble you are going through......but I know you will in the end make the right decision for all involved.....it is hard, and I know it hurts, but you MUST take everything into consideration. Bless you my dear as you do your soul searching...I know you will make the right decision.

Haha, thank you.

Originally Posted by mypreciouspups

I am thinking that they need to be spayed.. will help.. but I am also thinking the most of the problem is they both want to protect that baby.. and they get jealous of one another.. mara shocked us last spring when she jumped up on my great neice.. laid there happily until one of the other dogs decided they wanted to check it out.. she went into attack mode..she wanted to be the only one to mother that baby.. hormones do a lot to dogs..
I know this is not the easiest threads to make.. and I am hoping one of our posts will hit it right on for you.. once you discover the problem,. it is always easier to try to treat it.. I will keep watching for updates...

hugs.. anne

I could understand that with Gypsy barking when Amelia is trying to play with Kayla. She could feel that she needs to protect Amelia or something. Gypsy was here before Amelia and Kayla came 6months or so after Amelia was born. Gypsy has always had a close relationship with Amelia since the first week, so now you've said that I'm wondering if the barking when Amelia is playing with Kayla is maybe a jealously/protecting issue?

Originally Posted by Soccer50

I am so sorry you have to go through this. Never would you want to re home a dog/family member. But if it is a danger to your child something has to happen before she gets hurt in someway by them. Also I would really think about spaying your other dog. Females fight all the time when one is spayed and the other isnt.
Not really sure why they do that but it is really common.

Your post made me laugh. Maybe I should just rehome Amelia and keep the girls. Thanks for the giggle.

[Gypsy & Me]

Originally Posted by Martin0327

I just had to re-home my girl too. For severe aggression as well, all those things you describe sound familiar to me. I tried to work with Arizona on it but there was no improvement. Ace wouldnt even defend himself against her. It was just moments til Ace would have had a gash and he is less then 3 lbs so Im not sure he would be able to handle that. I also have a toddler that I would admit in a heartbeat he was being too rough with her....if he was. I was always there when he was around. He was only allowed to pet them if they were on my lap. They almost always are...All my son had to do was walk up to me and Arizona would just go crazy with growling and snaping.

Im sorry I have no advice to give you on how to fix it because obviously I failed but I can tell you is that you need to do what is best for your family and your other pets. There are just some pets that can only be placed in certain homes. If you have ever looked and your local shelter website, most post things such as no kids, no other pets, or both.

Everyone here is doing well and I know Arizona is doing well because I have been keeping in touch with their new family. It hurts but I tried.

Good luck, I wish you the best. Keep us posted.

Thank you for your post. It was nice to hear from someone who has actually been here and knows where I'm standing right now. I think most people can sympathise but you really have no idea how hard this situation is untill you've been in it yourself.

I don't think you failed at all. Just did what was in the best interest for your son and your family. If it comes down to rehoming I will place her myself and I will vet very carefully. I'm glad you found a nice home for Arizona and she is doing well.

[mypreciouspups]

I would seriously try to evaluate all the situations.. trying to keep a record for even a week.. then look at it and I bet you get your answers.. then and only then can you work on deciding what can be done ... if anything..if you are upset.. they know it and will be worse also..and of course with a baby it would be upsetting.. but dogs feel your emotions so very well.. almost scary to think about it.. when your really sick your dogs are generally pretty laid back and quiet.. they can feel it.. again only thinking out loud to help.. hugs.. anne

[Gypsy & Me]

I wish I could quote you all and reply to you all individually. I honestly didn't expect to even get half the amount of supportive posts as I have done. Thank you so to everyone that posted, (and the ones that messaged me privately), and offered kind words and understanding.

Okay, so spaying... would this make any difference? Would the aggressive tendencies already be set in too much for spaying now to make a difference? Truthfully, spaying Gypsy really scares me because of the CT issue. She's the instigator though. Kayla is so placid and just wants to love all the time, except for when she's snapping at Amelia that is obviously.

Like just now for example when I was replying to some of the posts... Kayla was laying in her basket on the other side of the room and Gypsy was on the back of the sofa. Both were laying quietly. Suddenly Gypsy stands up, eyes fixed on Kayla and growling at her. Kayla just looks up at her and then puts her head back down and goes back to sleep. Then I tell Gypsy "No" and she lays down again. I just don't get it.

I want to try what Mike's email said, along with a visit to the vet like Rose suggested and go from there. It's like a waiting game though. I'm constantly on edge for a fight breaking out and it's really not fair on me, Amelia or either of the girls.

[bjh]

Over the years I have had a couple of females that would fight like that. One in particular was a sweet loving girl but she would always single out one female she did not like and she would attack her. I would separate the aggressive female from the one she did not like and eventually the aggressive female would find another female to fight with. I eventually found a wonderful home for her where there were no other females. BTW, all my females that have fought have always got along great with males. In 12 years of breeding I have only had one problem with a male and female fighting and they were brother and sister. If you decide to rehome your female I recommend she go to a home with no other female dogs. It sounds like you are about to that point unless you are just willing to always keep them apart. I am not sure spaying at this point would help. Best of luck to you and your babies.

[Gypsy & Me]

Originally Posted by mypreciouspups

I would seriously try to evaluate all the situations.. trying to keep a record for even a week.. then look at it and I bet you get your answers.. then and only then can you work on deciding what can be done ... if anything..if you are upset.. they know it and will be worse also..and of course with a baby it would be upsetting.. but dogs feel your emotions so very well.. almost scary to think about it.. when your really sick your dogs are generally pretty laid back and quiet.. they can feel it.. again only thinking out loud to help.. hugs.. anne

I think I will keep a record of what's going on and see if there is a pattern. I wish I could say it was X, Y or Z that set it off but it's so random. If you see my last post you'll read that Gypsy just randomly started growling at Kayla while I was writing the other posts. Right now she is trying to start something again. Kayla is sleeping on the sofa and Gypsy is getting up there and growling at her about 3inches from her head. Kayla is ignoring her completely. Admittedly Gypsy is wagging her tail while she's growling at the minute but I don't even see why she's doing it. It's nearly 2am and they never play at this time so she's not wanting to play.

[Gypsy & Me]

Originally Posted by bjh

Over the years I have had a couple of females that would fight like that. One in particular was a sweet loving girl but she would always single out one female she did not like and she would attack her. I would separate the aggressive female from the one she did not like and eventually the aggressive female would find another female to fight with. I eventually found a wonderful home for her where there were no other females. BTW, all my females that have fought have always got along great with males. In 12 years of breeding I have only had one problem with a male and female fighting and they were brother and sister. If you decide to rehome your female I recommend she go to a home with no other female dogs. It sounds like you are about to that point unless you are just willing to always keep them apart. I am not sure spaying at this point would help. Best of luck to you and your babies.

If it comes down to rehoming then I think it would be Kayla that I would rehome. Even though Gypsy is the instigator she never snaps at Amelia... Kayla on the other hand does. I think Kayla would be fine in any home that didn't have children. She plays great with other dogs and loves being round them.

[moosie's mom]

I just want to say, I am so sorry that you are going through this! I won't hijack your thread, but I want to say...I know what you are going through. I have trouble with Mimi being very mean to Moose. She attacks him in the middle of night from a dead sleep!

I am curious to hear suggestions you get. I would love to know what Mike told you!

[mypreciouspups]

Originally Posted by Gypsy & Me

I think I will keep a record of what's going on and see if there is a pattern. I wish I could say it was X, Y or Z that set it off but it's so random. If you see my last post you'll read that Gypsy just randomly started growling at Kayla while I was writing the other posts. Right now she is trying to start something again. Kayla is sleeping on the sofa and Gypsy is getting up there and growling at her about 3inches from her head. Kayla is ignoring her completely. Admittedly Gypsy is wagging her tail while she's growling at the minute but I don't even see why she's doing it. It's nearly 2am and they never play at this time so she's not wanting to play.

OMG I did not realize you were in the UK..I get so into the thead or helping the person I get tunnel vision I guess..I am not a researcher at all..so with that said.. spaying could make a huge difference.. I want to keep updated on this.. for if I can offer any help at all.. I surely will.. not only for you.. but for the girls..
I had gracie spayed very young.. I had her daddy and was not going to breed her and wanted no accidents to happen.. then when she was two years old we got mara.. well they loved each other and played together perfectly.. that is until mara had her first heat.. it all changed.. I have both.. and I say grace with this stern authoritive voice and she knows she is doing wrong.. it is the only time I use that tone..she likes to put her head over mara`s back like she is saying she is top dog.. so I have been there..and this is why I am trying to help.. of course along with so many others.. I love this kind of thread.. when everyone pulls together for the love of yorkies... hugs anne

[Gypsy & Me]

Originally Posted by moosie's mom

I just want to say, I am so sorry that you are going through this! I won't hijack your thread, but I want to say...I know what you are going through. I have trouble with Mimi being very mean to Moose. She attacks him in the middle of night from a dead sleep!

I am curious to hear suggestions you get. I would love to know what Mike told you!

Aww, I'm sorry Linda. I just wish they could all love each other as much as we love them. Mike shared a helpful email with me. With his permission I would gladly forward it to you.

[JesBred]

I sorry your going through this.. Especially fearing your little girl will get bit

I went through this with our bigger dog and to be honest he needed ALOT of guidance and training. It wasn't easy or overnight either, I hope some of this helps you. I got alot of advice from friends and trainers. We used to pretty much allow him to do anything he wanted, and that was our mistake because we let him think he was in charge. We had to change everything we ever did. We had to stop letting him on furniture, make him work for his food (like sit down and wait for my command), I took him on daily walks and made him walk behind me so he knew I was "pack leader". Also whenever he wanted attention we would ignore him and when he gave up and went away we would call him back over and give him attention, becuase pack leader decides when they want to give attention not the followers. Just little things like this lets the dog think that they are in charge and to me it sounds like both your little girls are fighting for that number one spot because one hasn't been established.

Do you walk them? I know for me that helped ALOT!! Just being able to burn that energy off he was so much more well behaved in the house.

I hope this helps (if this is at all the cause for all your troubles) and maybe solves some of your problems..

Best of luck

[marcerella02]

oh Vicky what an awful situation this must be for you. I am sorry I am no help- Layla is an only furbutt but I know you are taking this decision very seriously and will do what is best for everyone. Sending a BIG hug across the pond!

[zekie's mom]

If your dog just all of a sudden got aggressive, it could be a health issue such as a brain tumor.