Originally Posted by fraservalley (Post 3519859)

Gemy - thanks for your post - I have a feeling though we may come from different sides of the question of proper breeding, our eventual aims are very similar - proper breeding and it does not matter who does the breeding. Wow why would that be on opposite sides? Purebred breeding is an art as much as it is a science. Healthy dogs are only the start for the purebreed breeder. It actually matters who does the breeding. I don't want dilettantes doing the breeding. I agree most petstores would not require that the breeding dams/sires, be tested for the whole gamut of pre breeding tests. Never mind the genetic tests. After all, all those tests would cut into their profit margin. Proper breeding is a term yet to be defined by a |Provincial Government| and guess what shouldn't be! The profession of breeding needs to get their act together to form a national presence, and be regulated just like health practionters under the RHPA.

Yes I am aware of the Summit meeting and yes CKC representatives were there. PIJAC spoke at the meeting as well as the President of Petland Canada who spoke by invitation. Many good things came out of the Summit, perhaps the greatest being a better understanding of what all parties are doing instead of inuendo which unfortuantely very much prevails - lets not also forget some individual people and some groups, have personal agendas right up to elimination of private ownership of any pet -

Well not just CKC representatives but the CEO of the organization, in other words the top honcho. Actually CKC spoke by invitation too. Well I've yet to see the publized notes on that meeting; so mayhap you were present; and if so in what capacity?
I think that many members of this site are aware of the "radical" groups that purport to look after "animals well being".


just let anyone try to take my two dogs fro
m me, they are very much a full member of my family, in fact , sometimes I wish I was treated so well lol and I believe the majority of pet owners are the same as myself and yourself.

But the world is not perfect - just look at how much child abuse we have, even abuse between adults or children against children. All we can do collectively is to make sure we know real situations and try to put in place a system which can hopefully address the source of the problem.

Your comment about CKC - you alluded to and is a fact, that CKC does not have the resources to actually monitor how thier members breed or who they sell to - the fact is that CKC members do sell to the public directly and through good petstores - I do think that CKC members are probably careful as to which stores they have dealings with.

Well I was responding to your comment about CKC. I merely stated they do what they can under the law. They do not have the power under the law to arrest miscreants or even to fine for improper breeding practices. They however do have the power to ban members for improper breeding practices that contravene the breeder code of ethics, and only for those breeders who are members of the CKC.

It is not that long ago the CKC allowed petstores to be members of CKC and accepted registrations through them. I remember reading at one time in their handbook that it is not legal for them to be able to say who can sell to who. I know they have changed thier practice but I am not sure if a court challenge were launched that CKC could continue the practice of saying who thier members can sell to or through. I am not a lawyer but I do know under fair trade practices, do not think I would want to argue that CKC has the power to restrict unfairly - but that is not the issue we are talking about - the issue is improper breeding - period.

I am not a lawyer either, but remember this is a non profit volunteer organization whose member elect to join, and to abide by the approved code of ethics. That has got to mean something in a court of law.....

It is also unfair, and you did not say this, to paint all pet stores as being bad. The majority who do have puppies, have at the forefront the welfare of the puppies in their care. Stores are highly visible to the public and government agencies - more so than any other source of puppies. Stores are not the problem of improper breeding. You must get to the source, the breeders themselves and good breeders I am sure would welcome being able to have a method of "certification" that their breeding practices are proper. It would be fantastic for the public and stores to be able to have that same assurance that the breeder had agreed to adhere to proper inspection and breeding practices.

I paint that puppies do NOT belong in petstores, period, full stop. I agree stores are not the problem of improper breeding, but they buy and place those puppies there,. and therefor support improper breeding practices. Stores being highly visible to the public. well yes, but not behind the scenes, and not from 9pm to 8 am. The public does not get the treat of seeing the puppies then.

I do have the place of breeders of good repute, and that is the breed clubs, and the breeder members thereof. All National Clubs do have a breeder code of ethics to abide by.

I do know as an example one Petland store in my area, who received two puppies from a very reputable breeder, I believe a Club member but not absolutely sure, the two puppies were found to be in need of liver shunts - a very expensive procedure. The breeder was contacted and the store was honestly told that the breeder just could not afford such an operation and if the pups were returned, she would have no choice but to put them to rest. Petland sent the pups to the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon to have the operations performed, the cost , in excess of $7000 dollars - both those pups are now in separate fantastic homes in the White Rock area, both doing very well.

Again who is this "club" member. Specify which club you are talking about. Well here ye, glad Petland decided to go ahead and have the surgery, but where was their screening of this so called reputable breeder. Everyone here knows you have the BATS done at 16 wks then again at 6mths. Again we go back to what are the health and pre breeding screening tests Petland asks for.
Oh and as a further question why would you know they are both doing well, and even this whole scenario unless you were intimately involved with Petland

I guess the gyst of my comments are that all sides must work together for a common good without pointing fingers - there is good and there is bad in all directions, breeders, the Clubs, animal welfare groups, stores and even SPCA s - I can only say again, lets put pressure where something can be done, at our Provincial governments - they have the road to a better solution.

Government is a solution of last resort. And certainly not government massaged by the profit interests of the business community

And let all of us watch for proper animal care, after all, our pets only ask to be cared for properly, in return they give unconditional love without us even asking for it.

I agree

You suggested I post a picture of my Yorkshire Terrier - unfortunately she has just recently passed away. I had her for many years and she latched onto me the moment we saw each other. She was from a CKC member, a show breeder who was also a Veterinarian - she was absolutely terrified of people, need I say more. I had heard about her through another breeder. The dog had been bred once and the birthing had been very difficult. I bought the mother, had her spayed and she was a wonderful companion for many years even though she would not look at me if I was holding another dog, especially if a puppy lol - she would actually walk in front of me and turn her head away while passing me - it was so funny................

Originally Posted by shodanusmc (Post 3519944)

So far, you have made 4 posts, and all are off base. You want to reduce Puppy Millers? Close every pet store that sells any type of canine. Now take a step back. Petland, and any other store that sells pups are nothing more than the food for the mills. The mills breed specifically for them, and also for running ads in various magazine under a spiffy name that will sell to anyone with a buck. They actually try to charge more than legit show breeders and hobby breeders. I see what your agenda is here, and it sticks.

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3519955)

Or take the stance that West Hollywood did. No selling of Pets in Petstores unless Pets are provided by reputable breeders. Meaning all parents of pups must be health tested and all pups that are provided to pet stores for sale have been health tested. In other words....pets must be of reputable breeding. So, since most reputable breeders do not place their pets in pets stores for selling...it's not gonna happen.

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 3451284)

HOW in the name of all that is decent does a person take her own dog's innocent little puppies and turn them over to a store to sell them to whatever kind of being walks in the door with the money? How does any so-called breeder go to sleep that night knowing those little things are out there with no assurance of the type of home that little life is going to wind up in. No real dog lover could ever ever ever ever place their dog's puppies in any home she didn't agree to after long conversations and a confirming visit from the potential buyer and whatever else is required. What if some young couple buys one for their twin toddlers? Or someone who works 60 hours a week buys it and sticks it in a cage most of its life? Luckily, some of them do go to loving homes but how can the breeder or seller know without the old interview process. How could any humane person just turn their puppies over to the store manager and the shoddy lack of care they are going to get while at that store and walk out on those puppies? Jeeze, I will never get that!!!