Chewie don't want to eat - Page 3 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

chewiesnewmom · 11-20-2008, 04:54 AM

He's definately not getting anymore hamburger...I'm just getting irritated at the former owner now...They really didn't do the follow up like they should have. I'm just glad I have him now and I'll get him back to where he should be...Maybe thats why they were just giving him away. Thanks again so much all the advice is really helpful to me and Chewie.

Ellie May · 11-20-2008, 05:33 AM

This is really an odd situation because the bile acids test was done in August.
It could have changed since then.
Finicky eating and constipation in a dog who has had liver issues would really concern me. Some dogs can go back to a normal diet after surgery but I think 3 weeks is way too soon.

If my dog had shunt surgery, I would avoid red meat and not go with excessively high protein even if he/she were very healthy.

I know you said that you are done with red meat but about the hamburger, it would have to be extremely lean to be okay to give any dog. High fat meats can easily trigger pancreatitis.

There are human foods you can give or mix with his dog food that might entice him to eat.

I would redue the bile acids test if my dog had those symptoms...

chewiesnewmom · 11-20-2008, 06:05 AM

I'm learning so much from everyone here, his former owners said he hadn't had any issues at all since his surgery, 4years ago. If they would have told me he had problems still, I would have still taken him. I just wish they would have been more forward that he could still have problems.

P.S. the hamburger was 90% lean and organic beef, I really didn't know and it was all he would eat.

TLC · 11-20-2008, 06:31 AM

Getting into homemade diets is really, really tricky, so I would try to stick with kibble as a base and you can add stuff along the way.

NB Veggie formula would be good if you can get him to eat it. 4 to 6 small meals are best. Measure out what is needed for the day and split it up. Play games with the kibble and him if you need to get him to eat it.

Friendship makes a low sodium cottage cheese. You can use a tiny bit of these to coat some kibble to get him to eat.

Apple bits or even some shredded apple mixed in with soaked (in water) kibble could work.

Hills canned l/d is recommended and can be used to coat some kibble too.

The folks at the Yahoo group are really better at all this....

There are also great supplements out there that can aid his liver function.
These are what I give Roxy:
Vetri-DMG
HomeVet Online Store

Hepato Support
HomeVet Online Store

BioPectin by Flora (you can get online or at a vitamin store)

Ellie May · 11-20-2008, 06:49 AM

What care is needed for dogs after shunt surgery?
Dogs are kept on a protein-restricted diet for at least 6-8 weeks after surgery. Lactulose can be continued as well, or can be gradually decreased over 2-4 weeks. Most dogs do not need antibiotics unless they have infections in the urine or other sites. The liver will begin to grow as the shunt closes, and will often be normal sized in 2-4 months. To check liver function, blood tests (BUN, albumin, liver enzymes, and bile acids) are usually evaluated at 8-12 weeks after surgery. If these are still abnormal, they are repeated in another 3 months. If they are normal, the diet is gradually switched to an adult maintenance dog food. A scintigraphy can be performed at 3-6 months to confirm that the shunt is closed.

What is the prognosis for dogs after ameroid constrictor placement around a shunt?
Survival rate from the surgery is over 95% for dogs with shunts treated by ameroid constrictor placement, and our long-term prognosis is better with this technique than with most other methods. Many dogs are clinically normal within 4-8 weeks after the surgery. Long term, about 85% of dogs with liver shunts closed with ameroid constrictors do well clinically. About 15% continue to have problems, probably because the tiny blood vessels inside the liver were also abnormal. Usually these dogs develop multiple acquired shunts and must be managed with a protein restricted diet and lactulose for life.

Dr. Karen Tobias is an Associate Professor in Small Animal Surgery at the University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine.Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

Since the bile acids were redone in August, he is probably okay but dogs that have had surgery can develop acquired shunting. I think this is more common not long after surgery...

Not everyone uses ameroid constrictors either (which would be a mistake not too), so that may change things too.

chewiesnewmom · 11-20-2008, 07:01 AM

He was operated on by Dr. Mark Rochat and Jude Berdelon at Oklahoma State Univ. He did have the ameroid ring placed on the shunt. The type of shunt he has/had is called a single extrahepatic portocaval shunt. It also goes on to say that the shunt temporarily occluded to subjectively evaluate his intestines and pancreas and that the temp. occlusion did have an affect on the intestines and pancreas and that a 5mm ameroid ring was placed on the shunt. At least the old owners forwarded med records or some of them. I'm noticing some major gaps in the records.

TLC · 11-20-2008, 07:56 AM

I hope Yorkieluv comes on soon, she really can help you figure this all out...poor baby....

She is also a Mod at the Yahoo Group (I have given you the link) so you may want to join over there, as they a specific Liver Disease group and they have much more experience, guidance and first hand knowledge that would be extremely beneficial in helping you him help.

chewiesnewmom · 11-20-2008, 08:03 AM

I am awaiting approval to join the liver disorders group on yahoo. If they would have only told me he needed these things, and I asked is he on a special diet, does he need supplements, is there anything he can't have. I really love this little guy, he melts my heart cus he's so sweet and lovable. Now the former owners want me to bring him to them for a visit and I'm not to sure I could sit and look at them knowing that they really haven't done anything other than save his life by paying for his surgery. The woman was shocked when I told her I have him to where he'll go to the door to go potty. When all he would do at her house was go potty inside. I've always been a firm believer if your going to have a critter TAKE CARE OF IT! Sorry just a little angry....

TLC · 11-20-2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewiesnewmom

I am awaiting approval to join the liver disorders group on yahoo. If they would have only told me he needed these things, and I asked is he on a special diet, does he need supplements, is there anything he can't have. I really love this little guy, he melts my heart cus he's so sweet and lovable. Now the former owners want me to bring him to them for a visit and I'm not to sure I could sit and look at them knowing that they really haven't done anything other than save his life by paying for his surgery. The woman was shocked when I told her I have him to where he'll go to the door to go potty. When all he would do at her house was go potty inside. I've always been a firm believer if your going to have a critter TAKE CARE OF IT! Sorry just a little angry....

Understandable, I can tell you LOVE this guy, and the is the MOST important part...

Honestly, the good news is that his LS was detected early and he had surgery. Now in your care, he will just need to be monitored with BATs and bloodwork and with the proper food and supplements, you will see a BRAND new pup - I can promise that once he is on track, YOU will be thrilled and sooooooooooo Happy to see "life" back in him...I know myself, Roxy gives me a smile everyday, b/c I never knew that something was 'really' off until now, seeing her 'normal' - it is refreshing....

P.S. I think the other owners just didn't know better...I don't think they thought anything other than what the Vet was telling them, and that's ok, b/c like I have said before, a lot of Vets just don't know all that much about after care, etc....So THANK GOD you can along - You are gonna be a GREAT MOMMA

Ellie May · 11-20-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewiesnewmom

I am awaiting approval to join the liver disorders group on yahoo. If they would have only told me he needed these things, and I asked is he on a special diet, does he need supplements, is there anything he can't have. I really love this little guy, he melts my heart cus he's so sweet and lovable. Now the former owners want me to bring him to them for a visit and I'm not to sure I could sit and look at them knowing that they really haven't done anything other than save his life by paying for his surgery. The woman was shocked when I told her I have him to where he'll go to the door to go potty. When all he would do at her house was go potty inside. I've always been a firm believer if your going to have a critter TAKE CARE OF IT! Sorry just a little angry....

Yorkies can be extremely difficult to potty train.
Ellie is 7 and still goes in the house often. Oh well.

I think as for liver shunt, the owner just listened to her vet and didn't research everything. The protocol might have been different then also. Most dogs are okay to return to normal diet. I wouldn't be too hard on them. In fact, I'd be very thankful that they paid for the surgery and didn't just euthanize him. They wouldn't shell out that kind of money if they didn't care.

And now you get the sweet boy.

chewiesnewmom · 11-20-2008, 08:32 AM

I am definately thankful they saved his life, however she had stated the only reason was because she got him for her son for Christmas....And they probably were misinformed, I do know that they tried to go back to the breeder but the breeder wouldn't have no part of it. I'm just venting because its not them nor I who have to suffer, its Chewie. Now that he's here with me we're definately going to make the best of his little life.

Yorkieluv · 11-20-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

What care is needed for dogs after shunt surgery?
Dogs are kept on a protein-restricted diet for at least 6-8 weeks after surgery. Lactulose can be continued as well, or can be gradually decreased over 2-4 weeks. Most dogs do not need antibiotics unless they have infections in the urine or other sites. The liver will begin to grow as the shunt closes, and will often be normal sized in 2-4 months. To check liver function, blood tests (BUN, albumin, liver enzymes, and bile acids) are usually evaluated at 8-12 weeks after surgery. If these are still abnormal, they are repeated in another 3 months. If they are normal, the diet is gradually switched to an adult maintenance dog food. A scintigraphy can be performed at 3-6 months to confirm that the shunt is closed.

What is the prognosis for dogs after ameroid constrictor placement around a shunt?
Survival rate from the surgery is over 95% for dogs with shunts treated by ameroid constrictor placement, and our long-term prognosis is better with this technique than with most other methods. Many dogs are clinically normal within 4-8 weeks after the surgery. Long term, about 85% of dogs with liver shunts closed with ameroid constrictors do well clinically. About 15% continue to have problems, probably because the tiny blood vessels inside the liver were also abnormal. Usually these dogs develop multiple acquired shunts and must be managed with a protein restricted diet and lactulose for life.

Dr. Karen Tobias is an Associate Professor in Small Animal Surgery at the University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine.Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

Since the bile acids were redone in August, he is probably okay but dogs that have had surgery can develop acquired shunting. I think this is more common not long after surgery...

Not everyone uses ameroid constrictors either (which would be a mistake not too), so that may change things too.

While this is excellent info, the "95%" success rate really does not take into consideration how the dogs truly do later on after the first initial months/year or really long-term(meaning years, in my book)...I believe there is research out there that actually shows way more than only 5% of the liver shunt surgery dogs having problems.

Ellie May · 11-20-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

While this is excellent info, the "95%" success rate really does not take into consideration how the dogs truly do later on after the first initial months/year or really long-term(meaning years, in my book)...I believe there is research out there that actually shows way more than only 5% of the liver shunt surgery dogs having problems.

Interesting.
I take the 95% succeess rate as 95% survive surgery.
It really says nothing about years down the road.

LittleBrownBean · 11-20-2008, 04:39 PM

Just curious if your vet checked for worms? My pup had a de-wormer 2 weeks before I got her, but she stopped eating soon after I got her b/c she was FULL of worms. She had a fecal sample the day I brought her home but she was supersick just 3 days later.

11-20-2008, 05:33 AM	#32
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	This is really an odd situation because the bile acids test was done in August. It could have changed since then. Finicky eating and constipation in a dog who has had liver issues would really concern me. Some dogs can go back to a normal diet after surgery but I think 3 weeks is way too soon. If my dog had shunt surgery, I would avoid red meat and not go with excessively high protein even if he/she were very healthy. I know you said that you are done with red meat but about the hamburger, it would have to be extremely lean to be okay to give any dog. High fat meats can easily trigger pancreatitis. There are human foods you can give or mix with his dog food that might entice him to eat. I would redue the bile acids test if my dog had those symptoms... __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

11-20-2008, 06:31 AM	#34
TLC Slave to My Rug-Rats Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Long Island Posts: 7,247	Getting into homemade diets is really, really tricky, so I would try to stick with kibble as a base and you can add stuff along the way. NB Veggie formula would be good if you can get him to eat it. 4 to 6 small meals are best. Measure out what is needed for the day and split it up. Play games with the kibble and him if you need to get him to eat it. Friendship makes a low sodium cottage cheese. You can use a tiny bit of these to coat some kibble to get him to eat. Apple bits or even some shredded apple mixed in with soaked (in water) kibble could work. Hills canned l/d is recommended and can be used to coat some kibble too. The folks at the Yahoo group are really better at all this.... There are also great supplements out there that can aid his liver function. These are what I give Roxy: Vetri-DMG HomeVet Online Store Hepato Support HomeVet Online Store BioPectin by Flora (you can get online or at a vitamin store) __________________ Adopt Donate Foster www.yorkie911rescue.com

11-20-2008, 06:49 AM	#35
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	What care is needed for dogs after shunt surgery? Dogs are kept on a protein-restricted diet for at least 6-8 weeks after surgery. Lactulose can be continued as well, or can be gradually decreased over 2-4 weeks. Most dogs do not need antibiotics unless they have infections in the urine or other sites. The liver will begin to grow as the shunt closes, and will often be normal sized in 2-4 months. To check liver function, blood tests (BUN, albumin, liver enzymes, and bile acids) are usually evaluated at 8-12 weeks after surgery. If these are still abnormal, they are repeated in another 3 months. If they are normal, the diet is gradually switched to an adult maintenance dog food. A scintigraphy can be performed at 3-6 months to confirm that the shunt is closed. What is the prognosis for dogs after ameroid constrictor placement around a shunt? Survival rate from the surgery is over 95% for dogs with shunts treated by ameroid constrictor placement, and our long-term prognosis is better with this technique than with most other methods. Many dogs are clinically normal within 4-8 weeks after the surgery. Long term, about 85% of dogs with liver shunts closed with ameroid constrictors do well clinically. About 15% continue to have problems, probably because the tiny blood vessels inside the liver were also abnormal. Usually these dogs develop multiple acquired shunts and must be managed with a protein restricted diet and lactulose for life. Dr. Karen Tobias is an Associate Professor in Small Animal Surgery at the University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine.Portosystemic Shunts FAQ Since the bile acids were redone in August, he is probably okay but dogs that have had surgery can develop acquired shunting. I think this is more common not long after surgery... Not everyone uses ameroid constrictors either (which would be a mistake not too), so that may change things too. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

11-20-2008, 07:56 AM	#37
TLC Slave to My Rug-Rats Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Long Island Posts: 7,247	I hope Yorkieluv comes on soon, she really can help you figure this all out...poor baby.... She is also a Mod at the Yahoo Group (I have given you the link) so you may want to join over there, as they a specific Liver Disease group and they have much more experience, guidance and first hand knowledge that would be extremely beneficial in helping you him help. __________________ Adopt Donate Foster www.yorkie911rescue.com

11-20-2008, 04:54 AM	#31
chewiesnewmom Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 31	He's definately not getting anymore hamburger...I'm just getting irritated at the former owner now...They really didn't do the follow up like they should have. I'm just glad I have him now and I'll get him back to where he should be...Maybe thats why they were just giving him away. Thanks again so much all the advice is really helpful to me and Chewie.

11-20-2008, 06:05 AM	#33
chewiesnewmom Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 31	I'm learning so much from everyone here, his former owners said he hadn't had any issues at all since his surgery, 4years ago. If they would have told me he had problems still, I would have still taken him. I just wish they would have been more forward that he could still have problems. P.S. the hamburger was 90% lean and organic beef, I really didn't know and it was all he would eat.

11-20-2008, 07:01 AM	#36
chewiesnewmom Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 31	He was operated on by Dr. Mark Rochat and Jude Berdelon at Oklahoma State Univ. He did have the ameroid ring placed on the shunt. The type of shunt he has/had is called a single extrahepatic portocaval shunt. It also goes on to say that the shunt temporarily occluded to subjectively evaluate his intestines and pancreas and that the temp. occlusion did have an affect on the intestines and pancreas and that a 5mm ameroid ring was placed on the shunt. At least the old owners forwarded med records or some of them. I'm noticing some major gaps in the records.

11-20-2008, 08:03 AM	#38
chewiesnewmom Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 31	I am awaiting approval to join the liver disorders group on yahoo. If they would have only told me he needed these things, and I asked is he on a special diet, does he need supplements, is there anything he can't have. I really love this little guy, he melts my heart cus he's so sweet and lovable. Now the former owners want me to bring him to them for a visit and I'm not to sure I could sit and look at them knowing that they really haven't done anything other than save his life by paying for his surgery. The woman was shocked when I told her I have him to where he'll go to the door to go potty. When all he would do at her house was go potty inside. I've always been a firm believer if your going to have a critter TAKE CARE OF IT! Sorry just a little angry....

11-20-2008, 08:32 AM	#41
chewiesnewmom Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 31	I am definately thankful they saved his life, however she had stated the only reason was because she got him for her son for Christmas....And they probably were misinformed, I do know that they tried to go back to the breeder but the breeder wouldn't have no part of it. I'm just venting because its not them nor I who have to suffer, its Chewie. Now that he's here with me we're definately going to make the best of his little life.

11-20-2008, 04:39 PM	#44
LittleBrownBean Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Leland, NC, USA Posts: 30	Just curious if your vet checked for worms? My pup had a de-wormer 2 weeks before I got her, but she stopped eating soon after I got her b/c she was FULL of worms. She had a fecal sample the day I brought her home but she was supersick just 3 days later.