Please don't go crazy!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by erickajm

It takes one person to set in motion ~ change! One person! Look back in history at the woman who defied society and sat at the front of the bus....the woman who decided that it wasn't right to have our children pray in school...or have "In GOD we trust".....it may seem a difficult feat, but it can be done!

Dang ~ I should be a preacher or something!
__________________

One person and a whole lot of money, which rescue groups are a little short on.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

This thread has gotten interesting and I've been doing some research today. I've actually learned that there are many rescues out there who are now getting the MAJORITY of their dogs at auction, for less than $30, have them spay/neutered for $30 and are then selling them for $200-400. This does not "feel" like a rescue to me. Call me naive, but it doesn't - not when the majority of their dogs are coming from auction. Sure, you are saving that dog from being bought by a bad breeder -- but I also see this action as supporting Puppy Mills. It's in the same vein as saying "I'm going to buy a yorkie from a Pet Store to save that yorkie" -- when in essence, you're supporting Millers by buying from there. How is that different from auction, can you educate me?

I guess I'm now curious, taking your rescue for example - what percentage of your rescues come from auction vs. actual "rescues" or surrenders?

Like I said, maybe I'm naive -- but I've learned today that there is growing controversy out there regarding Rescue Organizations who are getting the majority of their dogs at auction. I guess I find this really disappointing as I don't *think* I'd personally want to support a rescue who supported dog auctions to such an extent.

I didn't reealize that either. But it's sort of a catch 22. if they don't buy them, someone else will. Just like the puppies in pet stores.

what is the answer. they stay within the law so nothing can be done.. Education is the key, but that takes a lot of money. one would need to get a very wealthy celebrity behind them.

Ellen likes animals. Maybe she could be pursueded to do a commercial.

[andibaby]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I didn't reealize that either. But it's sort of a catch 22. if they don't buy them, someone else will. Just like the puppies in pet stores.

what is the answer. they stay within the law so nothing can be done.. Education is the key, but that takes a lot of money. one would need to get a very wealthy celebrity behind them.

Ellen likes animals. Maybe she could be pursueded to do a commercial.

I believe that it takes a mouth to be heard and alot of calling and making it known. If they don't buy them then most likely these babies will die-or get into someones filthy hands.
BUT-if they do buy them then what is the accomplishment. A home for a dog and a life of dread for the next.
Unfortunately it is a "catch 22".
I agree that education is the key-and where does it start-with the most passionate of people. The animal lovers themselves. Showing that above all they are out to shut it down.
It may be hard. But to make calls and pen letters and type emails can be done. Every person added together makes a voice louder. Ask all the people that pushed the petition in PA.
It was thousands and it was heard. It may not be perfect. But every good cause has a beginning. JMO.

[andibaby]

Originally Posted by jencar98

I've also attended auctions that are held here, with other rescues. I do not keep our rescues records so can't give you an exact number of dogs from there. Although, I do know we've had many, many more rescued from kill shelters, owner surrenders, and breeder surrenders than from auctions. I do know what happens to these dogs if they are not purchased by rescues. And, maybe it's best to let that happen I do not look at buying a 7 year old toothless yorkie girl from the auction the same as buying a puppy from a pet store.
I agree that the 7 y/o toothless girl deserves her last days in a loving home. But really-where do both dogs come from. Wouldn't the puppy in the pet store deserve the same loving home that a rescue can guarantee. Both dogs come from the same evil. They are both bought-and the same person gets the pay. The top "dog". The almighty mill.

I know of no dog we've taken in and spent less than $100 on with vet bills, usually it's considerably more than the prices you've mentioned. So, if we charge $175 for a yorkie we are really making no profit. Maybe other rescues are making a profit

I do understand the controversy because as I've mentioned I have struggled with the decision. It's hard to walk away though when I know what happens at the end of the auction day

Jen-I am not rebutting you in any way to upset you. I know that you have left auctions with the struggle of leaving some behind. I am just simply asking "what is the difference?". The pet store became a middle man between the mill/broker and the public. That baby was purchased for a profit. The difference I think may be good intentioned-and profit not being the issue-who is the real winner in the end. The one who's pockets were lined or babies were gotten rid of to make room for more profit making dogs. I understand that my views may not be appreciated by all or even popular. But being an animal lover, I have alot of conflict. Maybe I overanalyze things some. How do you keep the BIG EVIL machine from getting bigger if you are helping it along. Even in a small way.

[starsmomma]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

The OP appears to have disappeared. If they were looking for a "heated" debate, they were no doubt terribly disappointed.

Pleased at a good, clean debate with very knowledgable answers. So, in fact, not disappointed at all.

[starsmomma]

Originally Posted by jencar98

Maybe she got what she needed for that "ethic class" And, when it comes to ethics (if she was trying to hide) maybe she needs to study a bit more?

Studying right now. But it isn't about who I am, it is more about issues that concern everyone. It is about knowledge.

[magsy17]

Originally Posted by andibaby

Jen-I am not rebutting you in any way to upset you. I know that you have left auctions with the struggle of leaving some behind. I am just simply asking "what is the difference?". The pet store became a middle man between the mill/broker and the public. That baby was purchased for a profit. The difference I think may be good intentioned-and profit not being the issue-who is the real winner in the end. The one who's pockets were lined or babies were gotten rid of to make room for more profit making dogs. I understand that my views may not be appreciated by all or even popular. But being an animal lover, I have alot of conflict. Maybe I overanalyze things some. How do you keep the BIG EVIL machine from getting bigger if you are helping it along. Even in a small way.

In my opinion and on the many dog forums that I'm a member of the majority are owner surrenders or rescues that are taken from shelters. My last rescue was taken to a vet to be put down by the puppymill owner. The vet called the rescue that I got him from to tell them they had a surrendered Maltese to come look at him because she the vet didn't see anything wrong with the pup. They took in KCee. He has an overbite and not the perfect Malt tail and had trouble learning to walk since the first year of his life he was in a cage with no human interaction. They spent money on getting him neutered, a dental and up to date on shots. I adopted him for $350 or $450 I don't remember off the top of my head. I flew to pick him up so the transport fee that they were going to spend on him was deducted from my adoption fee. I think there is a BIG difference from saving a puppy that is going to be put down for any reason be it not up to breed standard or a retired puppymill baby making machine and buying a cute puppy from a pet store even though they BOTH came from the same disgusting product a puppymill.

Real responsible rescue organizations spay/neuter the dog, get the dog healthy up to date with shots and any surgeries needed prior to adopting them out to screened families. Also what is not known that many of these dogs are returned to the rescue if they come with socialization issues so the whole process starts all over. I have tremendous respect for respectable rescue organizations. I recently went to my local kill shelter to look at a Maltese that was found to pull him for a rescue. The dog that I found was matted, crusty eyes and had kennel cough, extrememly scared and timid but in the eyes of the shelter he was good to go and ready for $60 adoption.

Also I wanted to clarify on the word "breeder". You have responsible breeders that do their research on their breed and breed to breed standards and research their lines. These are usually show breeders and breed to further their lines. Those breeders adopt out their retireed females usually at the cost of a dental and a spay/neuter. Unlike these "breeders" (puppmills/backyard breeders) that are just there to breed their dogs to make a dollar.

[Nancy1999]

It would seem that rescues in certain states would have more auction dogs, just because there are so many puppy mills in certain states, I've heard that Pennsylvania and Missouri, for example, have more than their share of puppy mills, so rescues in these states, and others would have a higher ratio of auction dogs. Also, if a rescue could find a vet to do incredibly discounted spays and neuters wouldn't that say that the vet believed in the program, and what it was trying to accomplish? After all, they to are volunteering their time and not making a profit. I think an easy way to tell the difference between a legitimate rescue and money making operation, is that they are doing spay and neuters. Also, a scam operator seldom cares where the dogs will be placed, and a legitimate rescue takes a lot of flack for being too picky. Puppy millers who are making $25.00 off the dogs at auction are not staying in business because of rescues, however, when you bump up the profit to $300.00 that they get from brokers and pet stores, this amount, and more, keeps their business thieving. Finally, you have to think of what would happen to these dogs if they weren't placed in rescue.

[TLC]

I have nothing but respect and admiration for those that can truly devote their time and efforts to saving even just one animal. It takes a whole heck of strength and emotion to do what you do, as well as money, that obviously does not grow on trees

I honestly do not see anything wrong with Rescue Adoption fees. Most are very reputable rescues and I think they know what it takes and I think they 'assign' a fee that is appropriate for the 'needs of the rescue operation' and I am glad they can get it, because money doesn't grow on trees

As far as dog auctions. God Bless you for even being able to 'think' about stepping foot into one. I can not even read about them, actually just reading the words "dog auction" sends anxiety through my body....
With the way this country is and it's greedy officals and millers, it is going to take a long time of 'education' and 'money (that doesn't grow on trees)' to get that 'education' out there to effectively stop this horrid abuse and neglect for animals. So the states that allow or have such an abundance of auctions, I really don't see anything wrong with a rescue going in and 'buying' what they can, b/c as stated, those that aren't bought...well...I am sure you can figure it out

Rescuers keep up the good work....SOMEONE has to do it