Question about Breeders Ethic

[kaptaink]

First of all let me explain the FACTS. We notified the breeder when our dog was SIX MONTHS old about his testicles not dropping. She said that was normal they probably would drop. We took him to the vet at six months old and the vet said that they should have dropped by then. He stated that if they had not dropped then he would eventually need have a surgery to go up inside and cut them out because they would probably cause CANCER! We notified the breeder within a SIX MONTH period about what the vet had said and even went to her house and provided her with the vet's documentation. We had purchased breeding rights for the dog as well and the breeder knew we wanted to breed him. She said they would drop within a year and unfortunately we didn't get a written health guarantee from her on this-i know, our mistake. She said if they had not dropped within a year to contact her. Regardless, it is know 2 years later they have not dropped and the vet wants to schedule the operation in the next few months. Let me remind you that this is not a simple procedure where they just clip the testicles, he has to be cut open and then they cut them out. He has to have antibiotics, stiches, and one of those cones on his head. He's only four pounds!! The vet also said it was a genetic defect in the dog, again we have written documentation. And with you guys saying, "why should the daughter be compensated", well because that is how my mother chooses to be compensated for the expensive surgery. I don't think things have to be done in black and white unless is documenation stating so.
To bring you guys up to date, we went to her house and she did compensate with a price reduction for the new puppy-and he is a dollbaby!! To begin with i wasn't sure about this situation because there was no written contracual agreement just verbal. I'm sorrry this situation confused a lot of you, but I guess she did stand behind her dogs.
FYI- we are not unhappy with the breeder because we have gotten several dogs from her and they were all precious and healthy. And please, I just asked for advice and not judgement from some of you.

[smoop]

that makes more sense, you bought the dog to breed and it can't. The breeder knew about the issue, but it was never resolved. I would contact the breeder and inform that that its still an issue - maybe they can help pay for the surgery.

[tiggerr36792]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Cryptorchidism is genetic and dogs with the condition should not be bred. They also should be neutered asap because cryptorchid puppies are at risk of the testicles strangulating and/or becoming cancerous.

With that said, two years later you have no recourse against this breeder. Perhaps if you had informed her of his condition right away she may have offered to reimburse you a little of the purchase price towards the more expensive neuter (like breeders often do with hernia repairs). But to expect her to lower the price of a new puppy years later is completely unrealistic.

I also wonder why you would get another puppy from this breeder if you are unhappy with her?

Well said, but I would probably try to make a compromise both parties can agree with.

Originally Posted by spr377

Most health guarantees are for one year. So, even if it was in the contract, she hasn't mentioned it until now...after the guarantee has expired. If it was purchased as a pet quality pup, then it should have been neutered, anyway, and the testicle problem would have been mute. I don't think that the breeder should have to knock off "at least a couple hundred", for a family member.

I agree with you on this with a few exceptions. I can say that I personally would surely NOT mind knocking a few hundred off for a family member to keep my customers happy since they have come back for another puppy. Sometimes its about doing what is fair in situations like this and although the 1 year health and genetics warranty would have expired by now it doesn't make sense to me to risk someones reputation with an unhappy buyer over a few hundred dollars.

[Woogie Man]

Good to hear you got it resolved. You did leave out several key points in your original post so that is why you got the responses you did. People can only respond based on what info is given, so no one was judging you. Even though the breeder knew you had intended to breed him, it is typical to state that there is no guarantee as to fitness for breeding when buying a puppy. I understand you had no contract, but if you had, I expect there would have been such a clause in it. An exception might be if you were buying a 'proven stud', which would have obligated the breeder to guarantee its fitness for breeding, but that would only apply with an older dog, not a young puppy. In this case, all's well that ends well.

[kaptaink]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Cryptorchidism is genetic and dogs with the condition should not be bred. They also should be neutered asap because cryptorchid puppies are at risk of the testicles strangulating and/or becoming cancerous.

With that said, two years later you have no recourse against this breeder. Perhaps if you had informed her of his condition right away she may have offered to reimburse you a little of the purchase price towards the more expensive neuter (like breeders often do with hernia repairs). But to expect her to lower the price of a new puppy years later is completely unrealistic.

I also wonder why you would get another puppy from this breeder if you are unhappy with her?

I posted a reply to help clarify my parents dog's condition. We informed the breeder at 6 months old and she said they should drop within a year maybe a little longer. Also, our dog will be two in a couple months. We had bought several puppies from her and given her A LOT of business so we have always been happy with her up to this issue with our poor little man.
FYI- she did compensate with a price reduction for a new pup, so she does stand behind her dogs. And I don't think there was anything unrealistic about our expectation.

[kaptaink]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Good to hear you got it resolved. You did leave out several key points in your original post so that is why you got the responses you did. People can only respond based on what info is given, so no one was judging you. Even though the breeder knew you had intended to breed him, it is typical to state that there is no guarantee as to fitness for breeding when buying a puppy. I understand you had no contract, but if you had, I expect there would have been such a clause in it. An exception might be if you were buying a 'proven stud', which would have obligated the breeder to guarantee its fitness for breeding, but that would only apply with an older dog, not a young puppy. In this case, all's well that ends well.

I appreciate your informative answer. However, when people state that all we care about is money and not our babies, I'm naturally going to retort. I can't help it these dogs are my happiness and my children, as I'm sure every yorkie owner knows and understands. I understand your point about not clarifying and that is why I originally stated, "I was going to to try to keep it short." I guess it wasn't a simple short situation.
FYI the new baby is just precious.

[smoop]

Originally Posted by kaptaink

I appreciate your informative answer. However, when people state that all we care about is money and not our babies, I'm naturally going to retort. I can't help it these dogs are my happiness and my children, as I'm sure every yorkie owner knows and understands. I understand your point about not clarifying and that is why I originally stated, "I was going to to try to keep it short." I guess it wasn't a simple short situation.
FYI the new baby is just precious.

congrats on the new furbutt. We now demand pics!

[smartpuppiepets]

In my view this is an issue ONLY if your mom bought him for breeding and with a written guarantee that this puppy was being sold as a "breeding/ show" quality. Undescendent testicles do not cause any problems for a pet quality since they need to be neutered or fixed anyways and they will be taken off on the occasion of neutering. Have your mom asked around? 500.00 dollars are an awful lot of money to pay for neutering and she can just call around and ask other vets how much they charge to "fix" or neuter a pet yorkie since his testicles are not descending anyways an he is a pet. I am sure she will find a better price , around half is what i hear around here, although i know someone that her vet only charges 90.00 for neutering and if any testicle did not descend he charges 110.00 dollars.

Good luck to you and your mom and i hope this do not prevent you both to love and get your pet fixed. The risk of cancer is very high for pets that are not fixed. And with this happening no one should think of breeding a dog with undescendent testicles. You may research more about it !!!

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by kaptaink

I appreciate your informative answer. However, when people state that all we care about is money and not our babies, I'm naturally going to retort. I can't help it these dogs are my happiness and my children, as I'm sure every yorkie owner knows and understands. I understand your point about not clarifying and that is why I originally stated, "I was going to to try to keep it short." I guess it wasn't a simple short situation.
FYI the new baby is just precious.

WOW I guess you have a great breeder then.........glad she stuck by you guys with this. Now lets see pictures.

[DejaVu]

Originally Posted by kaptaink

First of all let me explain the FACTS. We notified the breeder when our dog was SIX MONTHS old about his testicles not dropping. She said that was normal they probably would drop. We took him to the vet at six months old and the vet said that they should have dropped by then. He stated that if they had not dropped then he would eventually need have a surgery to go up inside and cut them out because they would probably cause CANCER! We notified the breeder within a SIX MONTH period about what the vet had said and even went to her house and provided her with the vet's documentation. We had purchased breeding rights for the dog as well and the breeder knew we wanted to breed him. She said they would drop within a year and unfortunately we didn't get a written health guarantee from her on this-i know, our mistake. She said if they had not dropped within a year to contact her. Regardless, it is know 2 years later they have not dropped and the vet wants to schedule the operation in the next few months. Let me remind you that this is not a simple procedure where they just clip the testicles, he has to be cut open and then they cut them out. He has to have antibiotics, stiches, and one of those cones on his head. He's only four pounds!! The vet also said it was a genetic defect in the dog, again we have written documentation. And with you guys saying, "why should the daughter be compensated", well because that is how my mother chooses to be compensated for the expensive surgery. I don't think things have to be done in black and white unless is documenation stating so.
To bring you guys up to date, we went to her house and she did compensate with a price reduction for the new puppy-and he is a dollbaby!! To begin with i wasn't sure about this situation because there was no written contracual agreement just verbal. I'm sorrry this situation confused a lot of you, but I guess she did stand behind her dogs.
FYI- we are not unhappy with the breeder because we have gotten several dogs from her and they were all precious and healthy. And please, I just asked for advice and not judgement from some of you.

well if you are so happy with the dogs and have many from her, why did you title "question on breeders ethics"?? If you havent even asked the breeder yet for a discount until after writing this post, why are you questioning her ethics?

[Wrenee4]

Without a contract there really is nothing you can do and usually this isn't covered by a breeder. That said... IF I was to sell a male with breeding rights I would have to be able to feel the start of his balls dropping before he would go to his new home around 12 weeks old. If I couldn't feel them then I would rather sell him as a pet and in that case it doesn't matter. I have sold one male with breeding rights and I could feel both before he left although you did have to search for them - they were just little marbles.
Fixing a male with retained testes should really not cost more than spaying a female. I think you need to call around. Vets around me are all over the board with their charges. Just a walk in fee ranges from $20 to $50!
Your best bet in buying a male for breeding is to make sure he has two that are at least starting to drop. That along with nice knees, bite and so on and so forth.

[hasrv4fun]

Originally Posted by kaptaink

First of all let me explain the FACTS. We notified the breeder when our dog was SIX MONTHS old about his testicles not dropping. She said that was normal they probably would drop. We took him to the vet at six months old and the vet said that they should have dropped by then. He stated that if they had not dropped then he would eventually need have a surgery to go up inside and cut them out because they would probably cause CANCER! We notified the breeder within a SIX MONTH period about what the vet had said and even went to her house and provided her with the vet's documentation. We had purchased breeding rights for the dog as well and the breeder knew we wanted to breed him. She said they would drop within a year and unfortunately we didn't get a written health guarantee from her on this-i know, our mistake. She said if they had not dropped within a year to contact her. Regardless, it is know 2 years later they have not dropped and the vet wants to schedule the operation in the next few months. Let me remind you that this is not a simple procedure where they just clip the testicles, he has to be cut open and then they cut them out. He has to have antibiotics, stiches, and one of those cones on his head. He's only four pounds!! The vet also said it was a genetic defect in the dog, again we have written documentation. And with you guys saying, "why should the daughter be compensated", well because that is how my mother chooses to be compensated for the expensive surgery. I don't think things have to be done in black and white unless is documenation stating so.
To bring you guys up to date, we went to her house and she did compensate with a price reduction for the new puppy-and he is a dollbaby!! To begin with i wasn't sure about this situation because there was no written contracual agreement just verbal. I'm sorrry this situation confused a lot of you, but I guess she did stand behind her dogs.
FYI- we are not unhappy with the breeder because we have gotten several dogs from her and they were all precious and healthy. And please, I just asked for advice and not judgement from some of you.

Thank you for making it clear what the arrangements were - this is not what was said in your original post and was one of the first things on my list as to what would make it more likely that the breeder would stand behind the dog - you made no mention of the fact that you or your mom had told the breeder in the first 6 months - if you had then my response would have been different and you would not have had to send the 2 somewhat nasty private messages to me - I would have been on your side and your remarks about taking a bad check from a buyer and be happy about it when it bounced- if i thought the puppy had a good home I should be glad just
shows what kind of a person you are as that was totally off base.

I just think you misrepresented your story ( facts ) in the beginning to see what we would all say and side with you - sorry

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by hasrv4fun

Thank you for making it clear what the arrangements were - this is not what was said in your original post and was one of the first things on my list as to what would make it more likely that the breeder would stand behind the dog - you made no mention of the fact that you or your mom had told the breeder in the first 6 months - if you had then my response would have been different and you would not have had to send the 2 somewhat nasty private messages to me - I would have been on your side and your remarks about taking a bad check from a buyer and be happy about it when it bounced- if i thought the puppy had a good home I should be glad just
shows what kind of a person you are as that was totally off base.

I just think you misrepresented your story ( facts ) in the beginning to see what we would all say and side with you - sorry

What is up with people sending out nasty e-mails when they don't like to hear your opinion on something when they ask? I know I am new, however I have never once came on here to dump on a breeder, or degrade a person to get back at them. YT is full of breeders, and sometimes I wonder if that is why some sign up for it, because after they stir the pot, you never hear anything else from them.

I don't understand the "bad check" thing, so what does that mean?

[J_is_my_initial]

Originally Posted by kaptaink

My mother never told the breeder because she thought maybe they would drop, but no such luck.

From your first post, then you said: "We notified the breeder when our dog was SIX MONTHS old about his testicles not dropping"

I think this is why some people are confused. I know I was.

[hasrv4fun]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

What is up with people sending out nasty e-mails when they don't like to hear your opinion on something when they ask? I know I am new, however I have never once came on here to dump on a breeder, or degrade a person to get back at them. YT is full of breeders, and sometimes I wonder if that is why some sign up for it, because after they stir the pot, you never hear anything else from them.

I don't understand the "bad check" thing, so what does that mean?

It is really irrelevant now but it comes from a part of one of the private messages that was sent to me because i made mention in one of my posts that vet bills are part of the responsibility of having a pet and that this seemed to be all about money - the following is a part of that email =
Let me ask you a question, if one of your customers check bounced would you care?? If you answered yes, then you shouldn't care as long as they went to a good home

I just don't understand what that had to do with her dog and the issue she had with the breeder. Maybe I am just getting old and dense