Please Help...Can I Sue?

[yorkieisme]

Why didn't you Tonya contact the breeder? With what you have listed it does seem she should have been told. I would have to say it would be hard for a breeder to know what the puppy will grow up like, when some health issues lay silent for months or years before they crop up. If your baby died of a heart disease 4 years later, you should still contact the breeder to let her know. This could show her that she has a problem, and she can control it down the line. I also have no idea what a red leg yorkie is, but is that a bad thing to yell about ? Is that a health issue? Underbites I was told could go away, and some might not cause a problem.

Also to the breeder, do you take the yorkies to the vet, do you write down in your contract that she had a underbite? To safe guard yourself, maybe when the vet tells you that a certain dog has this problem, maybe you need to explain it, then write in down on the contract for both parties to sign. 3 years later and now its biting you in the butt with he said she said stuff. We all know that she can not sue you at this point, but we know she can slander you which is bad for business and against the law.

Tonya if you want her to help you, you need to send her the vet information, if you are not doing this then it comes off as you wanting to cause her problems and lying.

Good luck to the both you. May the best one win, hopefully it will be the yorkie.

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by ButterflyKisses

As usual there is always the "other side of the Story. This little girl that has the health problems was purchased in Dec. of 2004. I, the breeder was never contacted about any health problems until this month - August 12th, 2008 at 3:05 pm to be exact by e-mail. So the whole time when she should have been letting me know what problems were going on with this little girl, she never said a word. As soon as she e-mailed me a very ugly e-mail - probably egged on by some of the responses she got to her posting here - I took her e-mail to my vet and ask him to look it over - remember I had not heard ANYTHING from her before this month and she has had this puppy for 3 1/2 years. My vet and my vet tech requested that she send her medical records for the puppy - but she has yet to agree to do so. I also ask her why she didn't keep me posted on her puppy's problems as I tell everyone who buys a puppy from me that I am always there to answer any questions they have. But she did not tell me why she didn't communicate her unhappyness - she only told everyone else (on this site plus a few other Yorkie sites)

My goal is to always have the happiest, healthiest puppies possible.
I also contacted as many of the owners to the siblings of this puppy as I could to see if they were experiencing any health problems. The replies I received were very positive that their little dogs were doing great. So then I went further and checked with some other people who bought from a different litter that these same parents have to see if they had any health problems there - again, they all said that their puppies were doing great and that they LOVED them. Several of these family have bought serveral of their very loved pets from me over the years and yet I have not had any health issues with any of them. In fact this letter that I was sent regarding this puppy (just this month remember) was the first time I have ever had something like this happen. Of course it was very upsetting as I had no idea this had even happened. I only wish she had contacted me at the beginning. but she didn't talk to me or my vet and still refuses to speak with my vet or have her vet speak with my vet concerning these problems. I did tell her about the underbite before she bought her in case she didn't want to get her since she had that. I do not sell a puppy without the new family knowing everything that I know about the puppy - but I exect that many of you are already prejudging me - so the truth doesn't matter to some of you, but maybe it will matter to some people. As far as being a Christian. I don't expect any one who is not a Christian to understand this - but the the number one reason I will be honest in every way I can is that even though a person can be fooled, God can't be. And it is God I have to stand before when I die - and when I am standing there, I want to be found as faultless as possible. I also want to treat people the way I want to be treated (that is able Biblical) which is not what has been happening here by others.

I know there are some of you that will prejudge me - but that is between you and God (even if you don't believe in Him). I have done what is right and if Tonya had come to me in the beginning instead of just blasting me this month for something I knew nothing about - I would have done my best to do what was right with her. But she chose not to do that. In fact before her puppy even had any health problems she was critizing me for her little girl having larger ears and an underbite that she knew about. I didn't know about any hernia - the puppy did not have a hernia when it left here nor when she had her first vet check - or she hopefully would have told me at that time. I would not be writing this but I don't appreciate being smeared by people who don't know me and don't bother to check with my vet to see about my honesty, the care of my dogs or the way I raise my puppies. I would hope that dog loving people are fair and considerate, but I guess not all are that way. Tonya was complaining about this puppy to everyone but me from early on. Just maybe there are two sides to every story. My vet also couldn't believe that her vet would charge $3000 for the surgery. If she had contacted me before having the surgery and we had spoken with my vet then maybe she would not have paid this.

The only way I know about this link is that I was fooling around on the computer earlier this year (2008) and found my site listed on this web site. I went to it to see why and that is when I saw her complaining about the looks of her little girl. At that time she didn't say anything about the health problems her puppy has recently experienced, but since she will not send my vet her puppies medical records for him to check over, I don't even know when these injuries happened. Just like she is mad at her previous vet - she seems to be out to be mad at anyone she can be mad out due to her little dog's problem. As I told her, I am very saddened about her little one. I would never intentionally sell a puppy knowing there were any genetic (if the problems are even genetic) health issues. As with a child - there may be one child in who knows how many that come up with medical problems that were not expected. Of 8 years of breeding puppies, this is the very first time I've had this happen to me - just wish I had known so I could have handled it in a good way instead of being blasted when I was never even given the chance to work with her on this problem. My health gurantee is meant to be fair for both me and the new puppy family - in fact her guarantee was much more leineint then the one I have now - and my vet will tell you that I will bend over backward to help anyone with their puppy. But I can't do anything about something I don't know about.

I don't wish any bad feelings toward Tonya, but if we smear someones name as she (and some of you) have done to me - I think it's fair to hear both sides. I do love my Yorkies! I am a stay at home "doggy" mom after being a stay at home - home schooling mom to my 4 daughters who are now adults and on their on - I have to nuture - that is why I raise puppies.

Thank you for posting your side of the story. I was going to respond to the OP until I read this. Good luck to both of you...and God bless!

[BamaFan121s]

Wow...given all the factors, this story is just bizzare. And it doesn't look good on either side.

[yorkieisme]

QUOTE=BamaFan121s;2207316]Wow...given all the factors, this story is just bizzare. And it doesn't look good on either side. [/QUOTE]

[

[ButterflyKisses]

I am not wanting to see any own lose.

I do have my puppies go into their first vet check at around 8 weeks old, then they have a 2nd vet check before they leave my house. My vet is very careful to check the puppies well and and make sure all is well with them. If there are any problems, that is written on the health certificate. He will not sign a health certificate without making sure that any information concerning the puppy is correct. In this case the only thing we found was a very slight under bite. I told Tonya about the under and ask her if she still wanted to get the puppy. Her little one was to be spayed and a pet, so I told her that the slight under bit should not be a problem - usually I will also take off $100 if there is something like that, but I also will give a full refund if the puppy is not wanted for ANY medical reason or give the choice of picking a different puppy. This is up to the buyer. I do not keep any money if they should decide not to get the puppy due to any defect at all. It is rare that I have an under bite - but it does happen sometime.

As far as the hernia, she did not have a hernia when Tonya first got her. If I do get a puppy with the hernia, I always have it repaired before letting it go to a new home - but even then a person has the choice as to whether they want to continue with the purchase or not. They will be refunded if they decide that is what they want and the puppy will go to a different home.

What is upsetting here is that I was never contacted even though I ask ALL my puppy families to keep me updated on the puppies and to please call or e-mail me anytime with any questions. Not only that, but I have people on this site and other the other site that I found my name on (by Tonya) that seem to enjoy sitting around judging, smearing, and gossiping without any desire to find out the truth. My vet's number is on my reference page on my web site and it would just take a simple phone call to him to find out some things about me and my dogs.

In looking all around, Tonya is the only person I have ever found to be complaining about me on any other site I can find anywhere. But one person is all it takes in some of these sites to smear a person.

But some people would rather hurt a person with smears rather then go to the trouble to find out who I really am or if this situation is truly what is seems to be on the surface.

Tonya chose not to update me or in any way keep me "in the loop" as far as her puppy. If she had, we could have worked together for little girl. She is still choosing not to send my vet her dogs medical records that we ask her to send once we found out about the health issues just two weeks ago. her dog will be 4 years old on October 21st of this year and this month, August 12th is the first time I have heard anything from Tonya since she got her puppy from me over 3 1/2 years ago. The only contact from her was a very ugly e-mail accusing me of all kinds of things that were written after she had spent some time on this very link on August 11th - with what looks like other's encouraging her to think the worst of me.

I get e-mails, updates, and pictures all the time from families who have loving, healthy happy dogs that they have bought from me over this past 8 years. I have families that have 2 or even 3 dogs that are their family pets that have come from me. I have families that over the years the parents, siblings, friends, etc have bought puppies from me, and I have a number of vet's of my puppy families that refer me to their clients for a new puppy as they have been extremely pleased with the quality of the puppy and the care of the puppy while being raised the first 9 to 12 weeks of life. But anytime that you work with people - there will be one every now and then that will not be happy about anything you do. This is the type of person that any breeder (hobby or professional) prays will not buy a puppy from them. Thankfully this is very rare for me, and when this has happened it is not on health issues as I have never had this type of thing happen to me before -where someone has a health issue and has not come to be about it - it's normally just someone unhappy that their dog is not training as easily as the "dreamed" or the dog is not the color they hoped for - or the one who wanted to breed her tiny yorkie and I do not give breeding rights for my tiny Yorkies - but she gave me "hell" about that. But this is much more serious.

I could not do anything about what I didn't know though. I do the best in my power to do all I can that is right concerning my puppies and my puppy families, but if someone doesn't contact me then I can't do anything. I can say without a doubt that someone who continues to gossip and smear another persons name without knowing the truth is not being at all honorable.

I will try to stay honorable, honest, and trustworthy in all I do, but what other people do, I have no control over. I just hope all works out for Tonya and her little girl that wish she would have worked with me on her unhappiness from the beginning.

[TLC]

Originally Posted by YorkieChick1

I do think the breeder has too many different breeds and is listed with USDA which is a negative

I agree too

[ButterflyKisses]

There is no reason I have to be USDA as I don't sell puppies in any way that requires that. I only sell to individuals that I feel will make good puppy homes. I have just always felt that the knowledge that a breeder would have surprise checks to make sure that they are providing quality physical care for their animals would be a good thing. I know of people who only have Yorkies, are not USDA and would be considered a "great" by what I read here - but they do all I do for their puppies. I am very careful with my breeding and with the care of my dogs - but am told I am on a "puppy mill list" just because I am USDA licensed. Whether I decide to keep my license or give it up will not change the fact that I will still do the best job I can raising puppies. I put a lot of time into my children when my 4 daughters were home - I home schooled them from Kindergarten through high school - but was not anywhere near as busy as I am being a "doggy mom". My goal is to have healthy puppies who absolutely love to be around people as they know that being with a person is a great place to be. That goal stays the same - USDA or not.

[BamaFan121s]

Butterflykisses--
I understand why you might be upset and feel the need to defend yourself. I really do. If you feel like an unfair opinion is being formed about you, I can understand your desire to explain yourself, but please don't place all the blame for that on the OP. To be perfectly upfront and honest with you, there are alot of aspects and details regarding your breeding program indicated on both your site and in your post here on YT that people just don't agree with--as a general rule of thumb, not as anything personal. I'm not trying to be mean, just honest as you seem sincerely hurt and confused by some of the comments that have been made. Aspects that bring up red flags, that are common indicators of shady breeders. Does that mean that is the case with you? No, of course not! You stated earlier that you were one of "AKC's Top 25" (whatever that is) so you must be doing something right. But bottom line is, I think that most of the members here have things that they look for in a breeder and things that they don't like to see in breeders and opinions will be made based on how each member individually views the factors involved.

In all honesty, I think this is an issue that should be worked out privately between the two of you at this point.
I feel like there are 'sides' being drawn here and quite frankly, this is an issue that should be handled by just the two involved parties. I can understand both sides of the story and wish you both the best in resolving the issue.

[ButterflyKisses]

BamaFan121s,
I agree with you. I don't have any desire to have any sides taken. As I have said - I don't want to see anyone lose - I wish we could just have a win / win here. I also respect anyone that has certain criteria that they want to see in their breeder. I don't want to have anyone buy a puppy from me that is not comfortable with who I am or how I raise my puppies. I can respect other opinions and decisions and I just hope I can receive the same respect as we agree to disagree on some things.

This has been extremely hard and emotionally for me as I do care - my husband would tell you how hard something like this is for me - so I am going to sign off this link. My desire to join YORKIE TALK was to talk to other Yorkie owners like myself and also to be of help where I could be with my experience with Yorkies. I really didn't realize that this link would even be here when I joined - Thanks! Terry

[yorkieisme]

[QUOTE=BamaFan121s;2207517]Butterflykisses--
I understand why you might be upset and feel the need to defend yourself. I really do. If you feel like an unfair opinion is being formed about you, I can understand your desire to explain yourself, but please don't place all the blame for that on the OP. To be perfectly upfront and honest with you, there are alot of aspects and details regarding your breeding program indicated on both your site and in your post here on YT that people just don't agree with--as a general rule of thumb, not as anything personal. I'm not trying to be mean, just honest as you seem sincerely hurt and confused by some of the comments that have been made. Aspects that bring up red flags, that are common indicators of shady breeders. Does that mean that is the case with you? No, of course not! You stated earlier that you were one of "AKC's Top 25" (whatever that is) so you must be doing something right. But bottom line is, I think that most of the members here have things that they look for in a breeder and things that they don't like to see in breeders and opinions will be made based on how each member individually views the factors involved.

In all honesty, I think this is an issue that should be worked out privately between the two of you at this point.
I feel like there are 'sides' being drawn here and quite frankly, this is an issue that should be handled by just the two involved parties. I can understand both sides of the story and wish you both the best in resolving the issue.[/QUOTE



Yes I agree, and I do look for somethings on a website. One is quoting the bible. This is nothing against the breeder here, just not my cup of tea when searching for a family pet. And if the breeder was offending, then I am sorry but I'm not sorry for saying it. This is what makes YT a great place, we all have opinions and we state them without fear. I really do not believe the breeder has been attacked, if she noticed the OP really received some negative comments also.

[yorkieisme]

Terry
Do you believe people would not respect you because of what we dislike about your site. I think you are very honest....you did not have to come forward and say anything, but you did. Heck you could have changed names of your kennel, or took down your site. You didn't do that. I don't think your puppies look bad at all. I believe they are actually cute. By reading everything I have in the few months, I know that some people are not happy even if you give them a puppy. You can't put a smile on everyone's face now. Stay around and enjoy this board. I love it at 5 in the morning sometimes 4 if I can't sleep.

Yes I made the bible comment, but this is my thoughts on it when it comes to breeders.

J

[MyPeanutAbbyGra]

I usually stay out of these things and I probably should stay out of this one.

The bottom line here in the little dog in question.
Big ears, little ears, underbite..I'm sure she's still a precious little girl and I hope she gets the care that she needs.

If you are asking wolftrap to forward medical records, does that mean you're going to help her? If she has to surrender the little girl, would you take her back and get her the treatment she needs?

I hope whatever it takes, she will be cared for in the best possible way.

I can't imagine having to pay out $6000 in medical bills for Abby or Daisy, but I would do it, if it meant saving thier life or making sure they are pain free.

Good Luck to all involved, especially Baby Girl.

[ButterflyKisses]

yes, in one of my last e-mails to her I told her I would take her and try to get her some help if she could get her to me. She never e-mailed me back. I felt like that was a good thing to do considering I don't know how her care has been for the last 3 plus years nor how she plays - jumps off things, etc to really know how the injuries were caused. Plus the first surgeon must not have done a good job on the first surgery if they acl tore AGAIN on the same leg. But yes, I did offer that.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by ButterflyKisses

yes, in one of my last e-mails to her I told her I would take her and try to get her some help if she could get her to me. She never e-mailed me back. I felt like that was a good thing to do considering I don't know how her care has been for the last 3 plus years nor how she plays - jumps off things, etc to really know how the injuries were caused. Plus the first surgeon must not have done a good job on the first surgery if they acl tore AGAIN on the same leg. But yes, I did offer that.

Well if she didn't want your help, or refused to send you the vet records what else can you do. You have done all that you can do. Keep a copy of your e-mails and whatever else you have for future legal issues if it comes to that. She seems to have disappeared from this thread. Makes me wonder !!

[mscat]

I was not aware that this Yorkie is 3-4 yrs. old. It is a shame and very sad . Now, is not the time to be pointing fingers at the breeder. It is heartbreaking that this dog will soon have no home. If it were mine, i'd pay the bills no matter what. Certainly and arrangement could be made to decrease the monthly payments. 'if there is a will, there's a way" I believe the owner has made her mind up.
My question to her is, "Are you going to get anther dog after placing this one in a rescue?"