I stand corrected
 

[QUOTE=SoCalyorkiLvr]Francie~ I am learning a lot as well, but what you have described above is not the "breed standard" as defined by AKC since the standard calls for 5-7 lb as an adult.

Your description is what the average pet lover is looking for. The majority of the tinies have the same great feist, big dog, terrier attitude. In fact, if ask those who own more than one dog, most will tell you that the smallest dog is usually the "alpha" of the pack! That's how it is at my house. lol.

The yorkie was originally bred as a miniaturization of a few other terrier breeds becasue of the need to develop a "ratter" who could fit into the holes and buroughs and pull out their prey and they later wanted a lap dog so they bred smaller and smaller. The "standard" and what is winning in the show ring is gradually changing to since some judges like the smaller yorkies and they are winning in some areas of the country. So this miniaturization has been going on for a while now.[/QUOTE


I stand corrected....forgive my misprint...I was referring to the AKC standard which IS 5-7 pounds.

I'm confused then...if the AKC "standard" represents the "Best attributes" of the breed...doesn't that include health? The ethical question I posed in my post basically refers to this..At what point can we "tinker" with the DNA of the Yorkshire Terrier (or any breed for that matter) without sacrificing the health of the dog? And the bottom line is that we HAVE sacrificed the health of these breeds. We can cloak it....we can give all sorts of reasons why we want a tiny tiny dog...or...we can even say that we dont NEED to give a reason and absolve us of all accountability But the bottom line is...by breeding and/or buying these tinies...we are part of the problem.

And quite frankly...some "high five" by some misdirected ( not to mention politically motivated )Judge is no reason to perpetuate the damage we have done to this breed.

Francie

Go to YTCA.ORG breed standard is listed under weight it states simply- must not exceed 7 pounds. This was adopted 4/12/1966. I will follow this guidline until it is changed. I may not like someone breeding a female under 4 1/2 pounds but it is the breeders choice. They live with the results good or bad thay may come from this type of breeding.

Many of us are not trying to talk folks out of breeding we just want you to educated about what you are doing. I would want you to know what you are doing before you tried to fly a commercial airplane. It is much easier to mentor someone before they make a mistake then after. The well being of the female is number one and then the resulting puppies number two and the new owners are number three. Folks need to know what they are doing- you need to have a cookbook and follow the recipee. Sometimes just winging it from scratch just does not work.

lol at "fly a commercial airplane"...too funny

Francie

this was the entire point of my posting this thread

is the runt worth more than any other litter mate?? NO! does it have any more health risks?? not normally!!!

does it cost a breeder more to rear a litter from a 3 lb bitch than a 5.5lb bitch???? NO! not usually!

then why do some breeders charge more for their tinies??? because the consumer will pay it plain and simple!

Is a breeder unethical when he/she capitalizes on the "runt" and raises thats runts price three times the rest of the litters pricing?? The average litter mate sells for $1000 but the runt is priced at $4000 is that fair practice or capitalizing???

Very well put.

I don't think the fact that we may condone breeding smaller is, in and of itself, damaging the breed, by any stretch of the imagination, so I don't understand the concern because the statisitics (what few there are) do not show more health risks or genetic defects in smaller yorkies than in the larger ones. I do not think there is any scientific or medical reason that makes intentionally breeding smaller yorkies a bad thing. Obviously as Kathy states it has to be under the guidance of experienced breeders mentoring new breeders and following the priorities of good breeding practices.

http://www.ytca.org/faq.html#A

that explains where the 4-7lb. idea came in.

That is exactly right...Economics 101. Is it shameful to make a profit on breeding yorkies? Not in my opinion. I have read on here where people don't think breeders should make breeding their livlihood, but I would argue that it should be or they will not have the time to devote to it. If they have to go out and have a 9-5 job to pay their bills, they are not there caring for the yorkies. I see nothing in least wrong with making such a fabulous hobby a money making venture. It is the American way and they sure work hard, that's for sure. I have said many times that I could never be a breeder. It is a 24/7 job and most make way less than minimum wage from the people who buy the puppies if they even make a profit which a lot don't.

I would feel guilty if I paid less for a puppy than it cost that breeder to adequately care for that puppy and its momma.

KIM this is the same as yesterdays, you defended your friend for charging $4000 for her female and $950 for the male out of the same litter. You were stead fast defending her breeding practices, what a loving caring giving breeder she is...but oops gotta charge ya more Mr/Mrs consumer because she is my little diamond in the rough and my mortgage. Let me tell you that breeder isnt feeling gulity why would you!

I am a breeder Kim make sense of this IT COST ME NOTHING MORE to raise the girl or the boy!

very good point Feminvstr. I remember this same conversation yesterday too.

Wow, that is a HUGE difference. I am not a breeder and have no knowledge of what is involved but I think that price difference is outrageous.

I spent $2500. for a pet and I don't regret it for a minute. I bought a show breeder reject. :eek: (too small to show OR use FOR breeding)

My breeder doesn't make a living off of her pups but she uses money from her litters to support her hobby (showing champions for about 30 years). I don't think that is a bad thing. I don't even think it's a bad thing for people to breed responsibly and make their living off of it. Better than petshops?

Why would breeders keep doing this if they didn't make a profit? The joy of watching mother nature over and over and over again? yaright.

We all have to do what we feel comfortable with and everyone sees this differently. I would never buy from a pet shop, newspaper ad or an online website, but I have friends that did and they got wonderful pets.

[QUOTE=SoCalyorkiLvr]I don't understand the concern because the statisitics (what few there are) do not show more health risks or genetic defects in smaller yorkies than in the larger ones. I do not think there is any scientific or medical reason that makes intentionally breeding smaller yorkies a bad thing. QUOTE]

Special circumstances often come with extra tiny dogs. They are extremely
susceptible to both hereditary and non-hereditary health problems, including
birth defects that may go undetected for a long time. Other common
problems may include, but are not limited to, diarrhea, vomiting, along with
extra and expensive tests prior to routine teeth cleanings and surgeries.
Small ones are more likely to have poor reactions to anesthesia and die from
it. Tiny dogs are more easily injured by falls, being stepped on and being
attacked by other dogs. These health problems nearly always result in
large veterinary bills. http://www.ytca.org/faq.html