How do you go about reporting a breeder?
 

Ok...so to make a very long story short, I brought Capone home on Friday, took him to the vet this morning, find out he has a heart murmur, and then I found out he's only been to the vet to get the tails docked...basically just for their first visit. After that, they've only been to a vet tech!

My BF just spoke to her and he's basically saying that the vet tech misinformed her. The tech told her that she only needed to get the vacinations, and that the paper (health certificate) wasn't important! So rather than pay for the Vet & health cert, so just let the tech administer the shots in their house!

I knew someone was weird when I didn't get the certificate from their vet how I did when I got Mr. Biggs. But I went against my intuition and got him anyway. It was too late either way because I loved him from the second I saw him.

I feel like a child that just got a defective toy :( I not only do feel stupid for buying him from this "breeder", but my friend bought one of Capone's littermates :( He goes to see the vet on Friday, so I'm just praying that he doesn't have a murmur also.

My vet also said that his heart murmur could just be caused because he's adjusting to his new location, food water, etc. (Has anyone heard of that before??)

I almost forgot... Does anyone know who to contact to report this breeder? My vet said that I could call and report her and they would file charges or something against her. But I was so distraught by what he said about Capone, that I completely forgot!

Also, I'm getting the number to the vet that she first took the puppies to, as well as the vet tech and am going to give them to my vet, so that they could find out everything that has been done on the puppies and see if he had a heart murmur before.

Thanks for all your help! If any of you have any info on heart murmurs in puppies and the different stages/things to be aware of, please PM me!

-Christina, Mr. Biggs, & Capone.

A lot of breeders administer boosters and wormers themselves. But they do go to the vet for the health clearance.

I never heard a heart murmer being caused by adjustment. A murmer is caused by a tiny hole that can close up. Human babies are born with it and a good bit of them go away.

What does the vet suggest as a course of treatment?

I would say contact the BBB. Did you pay cash or by credit card to her? If it was by credit card transfer you can put in a dispute to the credit card for I hesitate to use this "damaged goods" and they would make her live honor her refund/replacement policy.

That's horrible. The poor thing. I don't know much about heart murmur's but my guess is that he had it before you got him. Do you have a health guarantee/contract? If you do, it would def be in effect seeing as though it's not even been a week since you got him. Hopefully a breeder can come help you... poor capone! You should definitely be able to get your money back on this one....but of course, I feel sorry for the dog.

i hope your baby is ok and everything turns out

Heart mumors are abnormal heart sounds caused by turbulence. In a young dog, it is normally congenital or developmental...the heart may not have formed correctly before birth or certain holes may not have closed correctly after birth. In the fetus, there are certain holes in the heart that are supposed to be there, but after birth they are supposed to close pretty quickly. If they don't close, it causes a murmor. Murmors can also be caused by valves that don't close correctly or are narrowed for some reason.

I have never heard of murmors being caused because of adjustment. There is something abnormal about his heart which is causing the murmor. Sometimes murmors go away with age, and sometimes they need to be corrected. You may need to see a cardiologist.

I paid cash, but she seems like a reasonable person, especially when my BF told her everything that was happening. I know that if I threaten her with a lawsuit or reporting her to the authorities, she'll refund at least a partial amount. I also have receipts from her..

Oh, I forgot to add that the vet said we will monitor it and check on it when I bring him for his shots in a week and a half. He seemed slightly concerned by it but also seemed like it wasn't a major cause for alarm. He just spent so much time telling me how bad some heart murmurs get and started mentioning shunts...needless to say he freaked me out! He did say that his lungs were clear though..

Sad about the heart murmur. Maybe this is something minor and won't affect his quality of life.

What charges can be brought against this breeder? Did you sign a contract guaranteeing the health of this pup? Are there puppy lemon laws in your state? What did the breeder say when you told her about the murmur?

I know that in Texas, health certificates are not required to sell ANY breed of dog...only necessary if they are flying.

Try to get some money back towards his medical care. I know you dont' want to give him back.

I'm so sorry about little Capone. Now, personally, I don't take my babies to the vet unless I HAVE to, because you can wind up exposing them to more diseases than you ever vaccinated them for in the first place. :rolleyes: I do all my own vaccinations, but I do offer a 1 year health guarantee against things like this. She should at least offer you half your money back, OR at the VERY she should have given you said amount of time to take him to the vet to check his health. But I understand falling in love with them when you see them. I too have learned the hard way in the past. My sister's dog, Chloe, came from a puppy mill and she has a heart murmer. She's almost a year old, and it hasn't affected her health at all so far, but it's still there. Only time will tell I suppose...

I'm not sure what to tell you about reporting. Did you ask the breeder if she would be willing to come to a financial agreement with you? Then maybe if she disagrees or is rude you could report her?

Good luck, I hope little Capone is ok!!

You can report your breeder to the Humane Society:

http://files.hsus.org/web-files/PDF/...laint_form.pdf

You should also file a complaint with your State Attorney General's Office (Consumer Protection) and the Better Business Bureau serving the area where your breeder does business.

I am so sorry about your puppy.

Unfortunately I was blinded by my excitement to get it in writing. But she did say that she was responsible for him until he got his next shots, and that she wasn't responsible for anythign after that. I will be bringing her my vet's invoice so she can see the amount. I don't want a refund, because I want to keep Capone regardless, but I do need some kind of reinbursment for his medical expenses if this murmur proves to be something serious. (Which we will know next visit...I also want to find out what grade it is)

Thanks! :)

Hugs to you and Capone. My cocker has had a murmur since we got her at 8 months old. She's 15 now and she JUST started having issues with it and she's on some heart meds. She's doing well. For the overall health and quality of life for him, I pray he's as lucky.

Unfortunately I don't ahve the health certificate, just receipts. We're in florida and we do have the lemon law. We're going to talk to the breeder later tonight and see what we can agree upon for the sake of Capone. I'm definately keeping him, so her only option is to refund my money or pay half of the doctor bills. I'm definately reporting her though either way, as that's what my vet advised. I was told by my vet that it's illegal to sell a dog without a health certificate...it protects both the breeder and the purchaser from the lemon law.

Well dont' be too rough until you get your money. Don't stress the reporting her too much.

As long as you don't let him get over weight and keep him exercised moderately he should be ok...god willing.

Murmer
 

My son has a murmer and a problem w/ his QT (heart wave problem) It affects nothing about his daily life. Now, if they said a "hole in his heart" that is a bigger deal than a murmer (even though essentially they are same things just a worse grade). With murmers, not all vets catch them just as not all docs catch them. I wouldn't go ballistic on this lady before you talk to her. It is very common for breeders to do their own vaccinations (especially one that has been doing it for an extended period of time). Emeraldshowqueen is right, taking to the vets early before shots risks many things. Before you freak out (I know w/ many docs can have a terrible bedside manner and scare you out of your mind instead of informing you appropriately), talk to her, tell her how you feel. My guess is she will work it out with you if she is a good person. Give her a chance BEFORE you threaten her. If you threaten first, you will get her hackles up and if she feels you are calling her a bad breeder and she isn't really, she will be less likely to work something out to your satisfaction. It will be more trouble for you in the end. Remember, people and pets w/ heart murmers live long full lives w/o additional high medical bills.

Sorry, to hear about your little one. I hope he is okay.

I don't know if it will help you feel any better, but my first Yorkie had a slight heart murmur. It never created any issues and did go away when he got older. He was almost 12 when he passed away -- and not because of his heart. My vet just monitored it during his regular visits, but it was never, ever an issue.

problem
 

The breeder and vet tech did nothing illegal, but certainly acted unethical. You should have gotten a vet check record even if the breeder gave the shots as many do..the murmur should have been listed...but slight murmurs tend to diappear..but you should have been given the option to decline the puppy.

I would certainly contact the vet who emplys the so called "vet tech" and tell them exactly what was said..and the fact she gave the vaccines...the vet will most likely take action if nothing else it cuts his bottom line of profits.
Good Luck

just wanted you to know I'm praying for you as you go about dealing with the breeder.

Give Capone a snuggle from me -- I'll pray this heals and goes away.

I'm so sorry Capone is facing this. I know you're already in love with him. I hope you can at least get some help with his vet bills.

I guess I must have missed something......did the breeder know about the heart murmur prior to the sale? It sounded to me like the breeder just did not get the proper vet check. Yes, the breeder should have known better, but I don't see how this is a case for the Humane Society. Even if the breeder did know, how is a heart murmur related to the humane treatment of animals? Not trying to argue, I just don't understand.

I will say that if the guarantee only covers until the last set of shots, I don't think much of that guarantee. Definitely bring this up before then. The receipts should be plenty as far as getting the guarantee to stick; the health certificate really doesn't have anything to do with that, unless it's in some way worked into her guarantee. And if so, she would be in violation of her own contract for not getting it.

Regarding the health certificate, unless Florida law is different than Oklahoma (which I realize is possible) the health certificate is not required for the sale of a puppy. It is required to ship the puppy. I often make vet trips for my parents, who breed Yorkies, and if we are not shipping the puppy we don't pay extra for the health certificate. All the certificate says is that they are fit to travel and not have a contagious disease. We DO, however, get the vet check and a letter on vet stationary stating the results.

Regarding the heart murmur itself, I don't have a lot of experience with it....only one puppy ever had one, we kept him and he is now 9 months old and it has disappeared. It is my understanding that they do often go away as the pup grows up.

I will be thinking of you; I hope this is resolved well and soon. As some have pointed out, although it sounds bad now, it may never actually be that much of a problem.

Christina, I hope Capone's health is okay besides the murmur. I also hope that goes away. Please keep us informed on the situation with the breeder, I wish you the best of luck!'
HUGS,
Stacy

I'm so sorry to hear that Capone is not perfectly healthy for you (and for HIM!). That really sucks ...

As your vet probably told you, in FL it's illegal to sell puppies less than 8 weeks old, and they have to have a health certificate (they're good for 30 days from the date of issuance). Shots can be given at home by the breeder. Tail docking and dew claw removal can ALSO be done by the breeder if s/he so chooses, although they're usually done by the professionals.

However, I'm not sure if the same rules apply in the case of a pet owner who happens to breed their dogs, versus the "professional" who (at least tries to) make their living from breeding dogs. It becomes a "grey zone" once they start charging for the pups.

I hope she will at least refund part of your payment. My understanding is that they (the breeders) are not legally responsible for vet bills incurred by "defective" pups; they can be compelled to return the fee, but then you must return the pup. You cannot have both the money and the goods. What they do with it then .... :confused: :(

But the damage is usually done the minute you set eyes on the pup. He's yours, and you'll do what you can to make him well. It's like a human child - no guarantees. I just hope that the "breeder" checks her parent stock to ensure that they're not passing on a genetic problem to their offspring.

I hope everything goes will for Capone.

Florida law requires a health certificate for puppies sold within the state:

828.29. Dogs and cats transported or offered for sale; health requirements; consumer guarantee

(1) (b) For each dog offered for sale within the state, the tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics required by this section must be administered by or under the direction of a veterinarian, licensed by the state and accredited by the United States Department of Agriculture, who issues the official certificate of veterinary inspection. The tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics must be administered before the dog is offered for sale in the state, unless the licensed, accredited veterinarian certifies on the official certificate of veterinary inspection that to inoculate or deworm the dog is not in the best medical interest of the dog, in which case the vaccine or anthelmintic may not be administered to that particular dog. Each dog must receive vaccines and anthelmintics against the following diseases and internal parasites:

Ahhhh, thanks for the info, I knew there must be something I didn't know.....although I guess I still don't see how this relates to the humane society. :confused: I must just be being dense on this. Anyhoo, so combining this with info from an earlier post, I understand that the breeder can give the shots, under the direction of a vet. Then the vet must issue the health certificate. From the statute quoted, it appears that this applies to all puppies sold, regardless of who is selling (hobby breeder, kennel, individual). Do I have this right?

If so, that would be a good protection for Buyers....Surely any breeder or vet tech should know this????? Although I guess I can see how an individual might not be aware of it....still, the vet tech should have known.

How old is your puppy?
Puppies can have what they call an innocent flow murmur
If you really want to get a good check for your pup take it to a Vet Cardiologist they can tell you right off if it is innocent or not. Which I would think if your vet truly that it was not an innocent murmur he would have advised you to go to a Vet Cardiologist. I dealt with this before in the Cavalier Breed. Also my son had a murmur but grew out of it.
As for reporting your breeder, I do not know the laws in Florida but it sounds as if she is trying to work with you.
Doing their own vaccines is a very normal thing not a neglectful situation.
Ask yourself why do most dogs visit vets? Because they are sick. Germs are not something you want pups to be around so you try to avoid such situations.
It sounds if this breeder is trying to work with you. I do think she should have had the vet check done before the pup being sold but as far as being neglectful in the puppy care it doesn't sound like she was other than not getting the actual vet check before leaving.

Best wishes

Deana
Prestigeous Yorkies

I'm sorry to read that he has a heart murmur. I hope it does go away with age.

Miko had a heart murmur when we got him...He was around 13 weeks old, I think, and his heart murmur went away!! Thank goodness...Two different vets heard the heart murmur and were somewhat concerned, but it went away. Miko is almost 4 yrs old now, and I still have them check for that heart murmur when we goto the vet, but it's gone!! :)

Again I am so sorry about capone.. I would go for the vet bills to be paid.. this was her responsibility to have this puppy checked by a vet prior to him leaving.. I thought in florida it was against the law to sell a puppy without one.. in fact there is always a piece in the paper in the pets for sale section.. I had one litter here, took them to the vet and had each one checked and she did the healthy cert.. but I would not stop at just keeping him, if you tell her you called a lawyer and are taking her to small claims court.. and you plan on keeping the baby.. that she should not get away with this and play with emotions of people.. and to me this is what is happening right now..

In fact who could she sell the baby too if you took him back.. no one if she was honest and said what was wrong with him.. you would win.. fight for capone on this one..

I feel so bad for you your bf and both mr. biggs and capone.. hugs to you all and keep us informed of how things are going..

I was just trying to answer the OP's question about how to report a breeder. The Humane Society is one option.