And you are now saying that you are that naive that you believe that? Are you kidding me??? Kim you are the one who is always recommending that people not trust breeder's with their money and that they should use puppy escrow, yet you believe what this puppy mill guys posts on his site??? As a lawyer I would think that you would be a little wiser than to just believe everything you read.

AND who cares if they only live that way for a few months??? One day of those conditions is too long for me! Are you for real?????????

You might be right. He may adopt out the adult after just a few years of breeding. We don't know him but if he's got a good breeding dog, one that produces large litters, he's not going to let that one go. He will keep breeding her till she's 12 years of age...which is the cut off age for AKC. Then where will she be? A tired, ragged out, probably toothless dog that no one wants. I've seen it too many times.

Just because it is a large operation of course does not make it bad.

But, when it comes to puppies and dogs.. do you not believe in single handedly raising these puppies yourself? How can every dog receive the love of a warm lap to sleep on when there are so many of them? I am not assuming that they do not have names, but how can you begin to keep track of these dogs?

How can someone justify the reason for leaving these dogs on dirt ground in the heat regardless of how long they or out there or why they are out there.

When you bring in puppymills, people will get emotional. That's what this whole forum is about-- our love for our pets. When us emotional people see these things, it strikes a nerve. Don't you begin to think "How could they treat a dog like that"? If I can speak for the majority of us, we see our pets as our own children. We raise them in our homes, we train them and we love them.

I am not sure about you but I believe every pet should get the attention that it deserves and the love of a family.

The difference between puppymill and breeder is that, if chosen carefully, a breeder will also raise a litter of puppies like their own babies. Some breeders even have a hard time letting these puppies go because they have grown to love them. With reputable breeders, I am sure that they do not have mass quantites of babies at one time. They actually care and love their pets, not throw them in a cage all day. You are totally right, the dogs may not be healthier from a breeder but atleast we are reassured that they were raised the right way before we picked them up. It's not only the health of a dog that matters. I, personally, would rather pay $1,000 for a puppy from a loving breeder with a small condition versus paying $600.00 for a puppy from a puppymill that was neglected it's whole life.

Ok, a few years then. Is there one person on this site that would put the dog they love in that situation?
And yes, I do get emotional about this subject. Maybe I care too much.

Where have you seen it is the question of the day....puppymills or hobby breeders or backyard breeders or show breeders or all of these?

I am sure you can run into some at the pound.

I've seen it at our local shelter. Old, tired dogs with tits that practically hang down to the ground. I've seen it at a couple of mills (I've only been to a couple). Dogs that were too old...IMO...to be bred. I've never seen it with our local hobby breeders. One hobby breeder here has 8 yorkies of which only 2 are breeding females. That's because she keeps her older ones instead of adopting them out.

Wow - First - Most of us get passionate about the terrible treatment animals at mills - it's not emotional ....it's called CARING. We've done this dance before - There just is no good mill - As far as Breeders go - There are FAR MORE health problems with Pet Store puppies then with breeders ...

If you took 100 pet store puppies and compared that to 100 raised raised by breeders - I think the result would be just what we see all the time - Pet Store puppies are prone to health problems - due to a life that started in a MILL.

wheeeweee...this is gettin really heated guys. i agree with everyone i'm antimill too but maybe we can all just take a big breather and think about what we write before someone's feelings get really really hurt were family here and ofcourse family argue but let's not take it so far that we leave a wound that can't heal.

These dogs are treated better than some of our dogs to be honest. Did your breeder give you a 5 year guarantee? I know mine didn't. All I'm saying is that none of us seen this operation up close and just because we say it's one thing doesn't make it so. People are up in arms about something they haven't seen. Do you really know the operation your breeder runs or do you go by what they tell you? I'm not defending this place I'm just saying to me it doesn't appear to be a puppymill in the sense of what I think a puppymill to be. Just because they sell a lot of dogs doesn't make it so, in my most humblest of opinion of course.

Unfortunately, there are many wounds here on this site that will never heal. :(

Anyone can offer a 5 year guarantee. That doesn\'t mean that you are going to get a healthy pup. With that many puppies, do you honestly think that they go to the vet regularly? Come on! That\'s where all of the profits would go!!! But did you read their contract? You don\'t get your money back if your dog dies. YOU have to pay for an autopsy by THEIR preferred vet. Only then will you get one for EXCHANGE! It\'s a repeat process of heartache.

It took me forever to read through this thread and I don\'t know this kennel/breeder. It is a lot of dogs and I wouldn\'t want mine to live there but I think we all need to stop coming down on Kim so hard. She is stating an opinion--that\'s all. She loves her dogs and you can tell that in all her posts on other threads. The comment about her getting a puppy from there and then it dies.... that is just mean.

I didn\'t buy my dog from a pet store so I wouldn\'t know about that. I also don\'t have hard numbers of health problems as they pertain to breeders vs. pet stores. I also don\'t know what constitutes terrible treatment as it pertains to this particular place. I never said there was a good mill but I don\'t see this place as a mill.

Just as you say we should not claim this operation a puppymill because we have not seen it, in my opinion.. I do not think you should say that these dogs left outside are treated better than any dog owned by a member of this site.

I know for a fact that I pamper my dog far better than I pamper myself.

And, I do not know about you but when I checked for a breeder, I checked out their background and their living conditions.

Let me ask you something. Do you believe that all of those dogs are getting the attention, love and care that they need? If so, how? How do you think you can keep up with all of those dogs in one day? Do you think that some of them will get neglected, if not all?