Daisy Needs Shots - What should I do?

[hha]

This vet that wrote this to me is a vet in Malibu, California that helped me online when I almost like a puppy to hypoglycemia a few years back..she will answer any question I have for her..She has had Mel Gibsons dog there before..

[judyeve]

The vaccinations depend on where you live and what your dog is exposed to.
For example, my vet doesn't give the Lyme disease vaccination unless you take your dog to places where it is a problem. She asks first. She does give the Bordetella, but only if you ask for it. It's a law in NYC if you use a boarding kennel or doggie day care. It doesn't really work that well. Rabies became required every 3 years this year. It's given once, a year later, and then not for 3 years. It's really not necessary for 7 years, but the law says every 3 years. I forget which others they got - Parvo and distemper
but not much else. My vet doesn't believe in vaccinating too much, so I'm lucky.

If you can look up your state's laws and know what your dog is exposed to, you'll be all right.

I wouldn't give them all in one day, but if your dog is used to it, do what you feel is good.

There's a titer test that will tell you which antibodies the dig still has. If your dog has enough antibodies, it doesn't need the vaccine, but you do have to follow your state's laws anyway.

[livingdustmops]

I would strongly suggest everyone go to the 1st link I have posted as this is the recommendation for vaccines from the AAHA. It is 28 pages but I think it is fabulous.

The 2nd link is from UC Davis with their recommendations. Both excellent sources to help you make an informed choice. Please make sure you throughly read Lepto vaccines as many Yorkies have died from being given this shot.

http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocumen...s06Revised.pdf

http://vetmedicine.about.com/gi/dyna...ccinproto.html

P.S. I would also space out the different vaccines and not do them all in one day with a Yorkie. I am going with the titer tests and only doing what the law requires. I personally feel we are shortening the lives of our little ones by over vaccinating but I came to this decision by researching many medical sites. My dogs are not like big dogs that run all over the place and I really do not take them out to that many public places.

[Ellie May]

Thank-You. That makes a little bit of sense being as larger dogs go to forever homes sooner than smaller ones. It is hard when I answer dog questions for people because I give the "Yorkie answer" which is usually a bit different than the "standard".

[yorkiesmiles]

I wanted to share an article written by my holistic/acupuncture vet - he was originally trained as a traditional vet - but many traditional vets may disagree with him

here's a link - I'll try to copy the article in - if there's room http://www.apvet.com/vac.html

VACCINES
Too Many Shots!!!
By Gary VanEngelenburg DVM,CVA

A practice that was started many years ago and that lacks scientific validity or verification is annual revaccination. Almost without exception there is no immunologic requirement for annual revaccination. Immunity to viruses persists for years or for the life of the animal. Successful vaccination to most bacterial pathogens produces an immunologic memory that remains for years, allowing an animal to develop a protective anamnestic (secondary) response when exposed to virulent organisms. Only the immune response to toxins requires boosters (e.g. tetanus toxin booster, in humans, is recommended once every 7-10 years), and no toxin vaccines are currently used for dogs or cats. Furthermore, revaccination with most viral vaccines fails to stimulate an anamnestic (secondary) response as a result of interference by existing antibody (similar to maternal antibody interference). The practice of annual vaccination in our opinion should be considered of questionable efficacy unless it is used as a mechanism to provide an annual physical examination or is required by law (i.e., certain states require annual revaccination for rabies).(1)

The above paragraph was taken from Kirk’s Current Veterinary Therapy XI published nine years ago. This publication is found in almost every small animal vet’s office. So, what has happened? Does your veterinarian still recommend annual vaccinations? The reasoning often is that we give them simply because of habit. Some hint that they are aware of some controversy but are “playing it safe”. The sad truth is more one of economics to most practices as annual vaccinations makes up a large portion of the income for many practices. I really think many veterinarians don’t want to hear the truth about the hazards of giving annual modified live virus (MLV) vaccines.

Fortunately, for our pets’ sake, public awareness and medical awareness are starting to surface and change is starting. Last year the National Association of Feline Practitioners started recommending it’s members limit booster vaccines to no more than once every 3 years. Colorado State has a website up and running (2) detailing which vaccines to use and NOT to use and recommends a schedule of no more than once every three years for boosters. They go on to recommend using only “core” vaccines in both cats and dogs. This includes canine distemper, parvo, and adenovirus type 2(for hepatitis protection) and parainfluenza. Feline vaccines include rhinotracheitis and panleukopenia only. Rabies for both species varies some from state to state so may be annual or once every 3 years.

The annual vaccine habit wouldn’t be so bad if it was as simple as not being necessary. The truth is that there are harmful side effects to giving MLV vaccines every year. More and more research in this area is coming up with the vaccines causing autoimmune antibody production to many organs and body tissues. (3) When you consider that immune titer studies indicate a minimum of 7 years protection after a single dose(4) where do we get the annual booster idea anyway? I think we, as veterinarians, are obligated to do what is best for the pet. Giving unnecessary vaccines , in my opinion, is unethical and, in some instances, bordering on malpractice.

Another factor to consider is safety when giving MLV vaccines, especially when giving multiple antigens at the same time. Most of our continuing education on new vaccines and vaccine combinations comes from representatives of the companies selling the product. I can’t help but think there may be a bit of bias involved here. Anyway, we are constantly told that the multiple antigen products are safe, convenient and effective. I remember two cases in the past year with perfectly normal, happy, apparently healthy cats being presented in complete total flaccid paralysis within 72 hours after getting “all their shots”. Extensive diagnostics had been done on both animals by their regular vet before being presented to me and in both cases the owner’s were told that nothing was apparently wrong with their pet and that the vaccines couldn’t be at fault!!! Many times every month I hear new clients complain about their pet being sick for up to 2 weeks after receiving multiple vaccines at once. I think our own pets are telling us something and maybe we should listen to them.

The American Veterinary Medical Association now recommends all veterinarians develop a core of only necessary vaccines for their area and not to give all available vaccines. They also recommend that multiple vaccines not be given at the same time. The American Animal Hospital Association is now saying all dogs need only a core of rabies, distemper, parvovirus and adenovirus type 2 and that they only need to be given once every three years. Other vaccines are considered optional according to circumstances. Vaccines such as giardia and coronovirus are recommended not to be used at all.

The Iowa Animal Welfare Act as it stands now is grossly out of date. It requires annual vaccines for boarding kennels and grooming facilities. It even lists Corona virus as a required vaccine. Corona is only an infrequent problem in very young puppies. Adult dogs will not even contract the disease in natural exposure and I consider vaccinating adults for it to be malpractice. Contact your representative in the Iowa Legislature and insist on a review on these requirements. I would be more than happy to help present the current research to the lawmakers.

1. Kirk’s Current Veterinary Therapy, Vol. XI, page 205
2. Colorado State University’s Small Animal Vaccination Protocol, http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/vth/savp2.html
3. Vaccine-Induced Autoimmunity in the Dog, Harm Hogenesch, Juan Azcona-Olivera, Cathatine Scott-Moncrieff, Paul W. Snyder, and Larry T. Glickman, Departments of Veterinary Pathobiology and Veterinary Clinical Sciences, Purdue University, West Lafayette, Indiana 47907
4. Considerations in Designing Effective and Safe Vaccination Programs for Dogs, R. D. Schultz, Department of Pathobiological Sciences, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin-Madison, Wisconsin.

[livingdustmops]

I agree 100% with your vet. Nice write up.

[marypinchesme]

you can buy the shots and give them yourself, most feed stores have them and you need a booster eyery year.

[marypinchesme]

well, I give my kids shots , you can get them at any feed store, and booster once a year.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by marypinchesme

you can buy the shots and give them yourself, most feed stores have them and you need a booster eyery year.

I hope you still take them to the vet for an annual check-up though. That's really the most important of all during the annual checkups is a good physical exam

[kathrynS]

Me and Romeo just got back from petco. He just had his second series.

[nvnvgirl]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

The 1 year and 3 year rabies are the exact same shot. Research has showed that they really don't know how long a rabies vaccine with provide immunity but they think it could be up to 7 years. I think the AVMA has realized that overvaccinating is a problem and they don't need a rabies vaccine every year when it provides immunity for years, so therefor they decided that after the 12 week and 1-year rabies vaccines, you should give it every three years.

THANK YOU! I did ask the new vet that I'm going to take Max to and they do it every 3 yrs after the initial shots. That's good news imo.

[hha]

Until just recently, (I asked at the vets office yesterday), they were only giving the booster shots to the puppies 3 times, now, they've changed it to 4 times...I'm not real happy about this

[nvnvgirl]

Originally Posted by hha

nvn girl, my one yorkie contacted kennel cough from the vets office, of all places..that's what the bordatella is for, and if your dog goes to get groomed, it should have the bordatella..If I'm not mistaken, it's a liquid that goes up the nose..

Thanks a lot for that reply! It's something I read here about not giving it unless you really need it and I wasn't sure what "needing" it meant. If I took Max to be groomed only once a year, I'm not sure if he wouldn't need it even then, since he'd be exposed to other dogs for a few hours (at least be in the same physical area as they are). So I figure he needs it. I just wanted to be sure. (he does go to the groomer more than once a year, I was only using that as an example). But I hear you about a dog getting kennel cough at the vet's; I suppose it's not unlike us sitting in the dr's office with a bunch of people who have colds or the flu and getting it ourselves. I went to a vet's near my mom's when I was visiting to get Max's food and there was a big sign on the door that unless your pet was current on it's immunizations you shouldn't bring it in there b/c they'd had something like 3 cases of parvo in there. That freaked me out; whether or not Max was current, I still wouldn't have taken him in there .

[hha]

I don't blame you, I probably wouldn't have gone in there myself.. Ginger goes in for her 3rd set of shots in less than a couple weeks, not sure what she'll get this time..I would think somewhere they will give her the bordatella
I really should get all of them in for that again...

[chestermama]

they do chesters rabies at a different time the the other ones, to much for the little ones