Are Yorkie's typically hard to train?

[littleROXYbaby]

I have been hearing things about Yorkie's being difficult to train. It's been hard for us, I know that much. What gives? Any truth to that you think? I know that Roxy knows where to go potty, but she wont alert me that she needs to go, so if she cant get to her spot she goes wherever she wants!! Its so frustrating. She even peed on ME & my husband at seperate times!! Whats that about?? Any advice?! Im going a little crazy

[orinskye]

i have found that if the yorkie thinks that it is dominant over you, it will go wherever the hell it wants...... at least that was what my toby thought, and boy oh boy did i set him straight...... it all boils down to the method you use to train. I used what people suggested on here, and forgive mistakes if i didnt see him do it, but cmon seriously, my fiance doesnt go around peeing on the carpet so of course i know it is the dog!!! and because of this method he thought he ruled the roost, then i switched to punishing him every time he had an accident whether i saw it or not, and he started going on the pads about 99% of the time...... peeing on you is deffinatly a dominance issue as well

[greerae]

Although I cannot help you, I just got a Yorkie and her name is Roxi as well!

I am having the same problems with her and have researched the same that they are difficult to train.

Amanda

[Benina]

Good Day

Yes I am also battling with my two little darlings. BUT I must say my hubby , he does not take any nonsense from them. He just let them know that he is cross and give them a hiding everytime they do it in the house and ya they are going outside for their needs now. My heart just wanna to break but it works. Forever reading in books re housetraining of Yorkies that you must not give them hidings.etc. Nonsense. They are very clever little bundels of energy. I just love them to bits !!

[yorkipower]

Hello:

First I just want to clarify – when you say you have heard that Yorkies are hard to train, you mean housebreak or teach to do things? I am guessing you mean the former. The short answer to that question is: generally, yes they are but there’s a lot of reasons why which have as much to do with the dog as the people who own them

First, I disagree with the post above about using dominance theory to train a dog to be housebroken. Yes, dominance theory works. People slapped their kids for hundreds of years to get them to behave, and yes, for fear of being hit with a paddle in school or pulled in the back of the ears by pappy, the kids generally stayed in line. But what were they really learning? The same school of thought was applied in dog obedience since, at least WWI. There are plenty of “OTCH” dogs out there who were taught to retrieve a dumbbell with an ear pinch or a slap against the head (perhaps, there are many in the works today as well). With agility, however, we learned that the most successful and motivated dogs were the ones taught to think for themselves and to see learning as a positive experience. Training dogs has gone in the same direction training children went in the 70’s – towards using positive techniques and away from dominating and scaring the subject into compliance.

I’ve heard the arguments about dogs being wolves and how wolves have a social hierarchy. But if you read up on wolf pack behavior and what animal behaviorists say in this regard, you will quickly learn that a) wolf pack relationships are actually dynamic – changing from instance to instance. The old “alpha” paradigm is very inaccurate. B) the dominant wolf does not force its subordinates to assume subordinate position (on its back for example), this is what the subordinate does to show his deference (licking the dominants mouth, crouching, or in extreme “mercy” situations, rolling on its back to expose its stomach). C) most importantly, Jean Donaldson compares the analogy of dogs in captivity to wild wolf packs as akin to studying human behavior by going to a refugee camp.;

I think “training” and “disciplining” are two totally different things and you have to be very careful which you are doing and why (especially if you are doing either in a state of anger because your new carpet is wet). (I put up another post just yesterday, in response to a person who suggested using dominance theory to prevent aggression. Turns out the dog who was showing “aggressive tendencies” was 11 weeks old. At three months, a dog is just a baby and it would be highly unlikely that he would be showing sexual dominance behavior.. Without seeing what the dog is doing and what is reacting to – I would be very WARY of punishing a dog with a dominance theory tactic (ear pinching, back rolls, scruffing, etc.). If you aren’t absolutely certain what you are punishing and punishing the behavior at the moment it occurs, you could easily wind up sending mixed signals. With this form of behavior modification ,there’s little room for you to make a mistake! If a dog is confused as to why he is being punished and the person is not consistent in the application of that punishment, you can wind up with a scared, confused or frightened dog. A frightened dog is more likely to bite than a “dominant one.” When left with no other defenses, a dog will choose to bite.
Like I said, Yorkies tend to be hard to housebreak, as are most of the dogs in the Toy group. I do not think this is because they are hard headed or stubborn or vindictive. Come on – people are those things, dog’s aren’t. I am doubtful my dog is sitting there on the coach saying to himself “hmm. . . yesterday she took my greenie away. I think I’ll go pee on the coach to get back at her.”

No, something else is going on:
1) Most of the toy group consists of very small dogs, with small bladders and high metabolisms. This means they have to eat and pee often. ‘
2) Add to the small stomachs, small bodies and thin coats – they loose heat easily and many do not like to go out side. Some will have accidents inside, on rainy days to avoid going out into that “cold.” Compounded to this problem, many people advocate teaching small dogs to use wee-wee pads instead. However, here’s the problem with wee-wee pads. Dogs don’t generalize well, If you move that wee wee pad all over the house instead of keeping it in a specific room, or if the dog misses the pad and hits the floor, you’ve got a) a newly marked area where the dog will likely return because of the scent and b) a confused dog who doesn’t know which room in the house is OK and which isn’t.
3) If you look at the people who tend to buy small dogs, they tent to fall into some general categories add to housebreaking blues; apartment dwellers who think a small dog will fit more comfortably with the home; first time dog owners who might be intimidated in getting a bigger dog or who think a smaller dog will be easier to train and handle; families with children who, likewise, think a small dog will be less intimidating for their children; people who work long hours and don’t think they have the time or opportunity to give a large dog the exercise it needs; much to my personal chagrin, there’s a more recent category – people who find small dogs fashionable or cute and impulse buy. I am not saying all people fall into one of these categories but there are certainly a good number who fall into at least one. Without the proper research and know how- they can find themselves unable to train their dogs properly
4) Related to #2, People underestimate small dogs. Little dogs are capable of following commands, following a routine and are very cleaver. But there’s this small dog paradigm that people fall into. This is especially true for those who buy small dogs as their “babies.” We all have heard of those yappy little dogs, who beg at the table, destroy the sofa cushions and pee all over the house. But would the dog know to beg at the table if food was never forthcoming from those actions?
5) Despite what people may think to the contrary, most small dogs are not easier to train or handle than bigger dogs and can be even more difficult. Again, this is not because there is some sort of “Evil” streak in the Chihuahua next door. It’s simply this, the Chihuahua, the Pug, the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, The Maltese, and our dear Yorkies, have spent generations sitting on people’s laps and making their livings as being the object of some ladie’s adoration. The expression “putting on the dog” comes from the fact that if you were wealthy enough to have a painting commissioned in your honor, the painter would often have you seated with a toy dog on your lap to indicate your social status (that you could afford to have a “frivolous” dog). Labs, Shepherds, Collies are working dogs. They were selected for their ability to work with people and follow directions. This is a matter of instinct and genetic makeup. That doesn’t mean little dogs can’t learn. Papillion’s, were strictly the lap dogs of the nobleman . Yet, Papillion are among the top obedience and agility dogs out there! It just takes a bit more patience and understanding to get them to work because they don’t have “working drive” the way a maniac Border collie will go all day until it collapses.
6) Now, as far as YORKIEs are concerned, there’s an added issue. They are terriers. So some of the logic about housebreaking, for instance the dogs don’t like to soil where they sleep, doesn’t always work with them. I have one dog who loves to roll in his poo! I had another who no matter how small I made her crate, would still poop in it. It just didn’t’ matter to them. Plus, as far as training goes, terriers were solitary hunters/workers. That means, again, instinctively they are independent (notice I did not say stubborn, just independent). They think for themselves. Clicker training works great with terriers because it gives them options and they can choose for themselves, which to take.

Got to go now but I hope this has answered your questions

[greerae]

I have been working with my Yorkie for only a short time now and she has been great! We have not had an accident in a few days and I feel my last posting may have been a bit premature since we had just gotten her. She is extremely intelligent and I do not have to use force to get her to do what she is supposed to. She is getting into her crate at night by herself with only a little coaxing and no longer cries. I adore her and I am so proud of her progress

[yorkipower]

Bravo and Amen!

[fozzybear]

Simply stated:

Comittment, Consistency, and Dedication = Easy to Train Dog (Reguardless of Breed - Terrier blame IMO, is an excuse)

Poorly trained Dogs are a reflection of the owner.....PERIOD!


This is the best resource for training: (IMHO) Read it , follow it!
http://www.dogdaysusa.com/puppy101.asp

[schatzie]

I think in general Yorkie's are highly intelligent. Devotion, patience, and consistency are the keys to success.

[yorkipower]

Great website Fozzy. I especially like that this is #1:



Never hit or physically punish your puppy. Make sure your children aren't either. Hitting or hurting your pup signals the end of your relationship with him. If your pup doesn't like or trust you or your kids (and he won't if you hurt him), he won't trust you and won't want to obey you. Even worse, he is much more likely to bite you or your children if he's been hit or hurt. There are much better ways to get your pup to obey you - read on…

[Ringo]

YorkiePower...

Great post! Can you elaborate more on what you meant when you said "clicker training works great with terriers because it gives them options and they can choose for themselves, which to take."

I mean what do you mean by they have options?

Thanks!

[Harbinger]

yorkiepower, great post and you are to be applauded for it. I aggree with you on many of the points you made.

[yorkipower]

Originally Posted by Ringo

YorkiePower...
Here's a post I put up a few weeks ago (and some links to other posts and sources of additional information)

Great post! Can you elaborate more on what you meant when you said "clicker training works great with terriers because it gives them options and they can choose for themselves, which to take."

I mean what do you mean by they have options?

Thanks!

clicker crash course

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Hi!
I’ve put up other posts on clicker training in the past, so please browse through my past posts in addition to reading this. Also please check out my website under “links” for more information on clicker training. I have a separate page for clicker training as well.

Here’s a crash course. Clicker training is the dog version of training that animal behaviorist and marine mammal trainers have been using for years. When you see those trainers at SeaWorld blowing their whistles, what they are really doing is clicker training.

We really have Pavlov and his dog though to thank for all this and Karen Pryor for bringing the development of these early concepts into the world of dog training. With that intro – it’s actually pretty simple.

A clicker is a “conditioned reinforcer.” What that means is, you teach your dog to associate the sound of the click as a sign that something good is about to happen. The knowledge that something good is about to happen, “reinforces” the behavior that earned the click.

Here’s how it works (try this at home kids! Lol):

One of the easiest “early clicker” training exercises for dog and owner is teaching the hand bump. To begin:
1) If you have a clicker (you can get one at many pet shops, I sell one on my website, or you can go to the source – Karen Pryor’s own site). If you don’t many other things can be used instead – the click of a pen cap, a bell, a whistle. Just find something you can hold easily, makes a consistent sound, and that can be turned on and off quickly and efficiently.
2) Take some EXTRA special goodies such as dime sized slices of hotdog or small cubes of cheddar cheese and hold these pieces in the hand closest to your dog. A “bait bag” is recommended as you do not want to be fumbling with the goodies. The faster you can hand over the rewards, the faster this is going to work.
3) You are going to first “warm up” your clicker. Snap your clicker and not even as second later, hand over a small piece of goody. Do it again and again and again. Remember Pavlov’s dog? Well, here’s the part that we are borrowing from him. We want your dog to associate the clicker with the goodies the way Pavlov’s dog associated the bell with goodies.
a. Here’s a caveat –some dogs, especially small dogs, are noise sensitive or shy and may spook at the sound of the clicker. There a number of clickers on the market now that self-modulating but you can also muffle the sounds with a towel, put the clicker in your pocket or behind your back. Until you get your dog over her fear of the clicker, you will have to stay at the “warm up” phase for awhile. My last puppy needed me to stand on the back porch, chucking pieces of hotdog to her from at least 10 feet away before she learned that that the clicker was something good and not be feared!
4) Now here’s where clicker training takes a step further than Pavlov. Once your dog understands that the clicker means all things great and beautiful in the world, NOW you can use it to “reinforce” behaviors you want to recreate. As soon as your dog hears that “snap” she will wonder “OK, what was I doing when I heard that snap? Let me see if I can make my human do that again! Hmm .. . if I put my paw here will I get the snap? No? How about this? AH ha! There it is! These silly humans, its’ so easy to train them!”
5) Now you are ready to teach you hand touch. The reason this is a really good beginning exercise is that you can’t go wrong with it, it doesn’t require any special equipment. Plus, it’s a very simple movement with little in the way of “variations” which could confuse a dog (for example, the “sit” can be done in a number of different ways, butt down first, rolled into, from the down up, hips underneath, hips to the side. The more complicated the movement or gesture, the more elements need to be broken down into their simplest forms. The hand touch is so simple, one movement and your dog has got it). So here goes – put your hand out in front of your dog, palm facing towards her nose. If she is like most normal dogs, she will lean forward and sniff your palm. As soon as her nose makes contact with your skin “Click” and hand over the goodies. If she is that rare breed of dog that won’t lean forward and sniff your palm, you may have to “shape” the sniffing behavior in small increments. In other words, the slightest movement she gives you towards your hand you will click and reward. Then you will wait until she gives you slightly more movement and then more movement and so on until she finally touches your hand.
6) Once she has figured out that touching your palm earns her a click you can have fun with this my moving around the room and placing your hand in different directions. I’d begin by putting my hand at either side of her head to see if she turns to touch my hand. If she does that, I’d stand up and step a few feet away from her and show her my palm and see if she will come over. Soon enough, she will begin to follow you (hey, did you notice what a great way this is to teach the “come” command?). In agility, we use this exercise to teach dogs to follow our hands when we give directions on course.
7) When you think she really understands what is being asked, unlike traditional training where you would have used the command as you were teaching the exercise, only NOW do you add a command “touch.” Before you show her your palm and before you click, you say touch, she then touches and you click
8) The final stages of clicker training are “random reinforcement” – in which you do not reward every good performance but randomly select performances to click and ones not to click so that your dog isn’t dependant on rewards and the clicker to do the trick you are asking and then “proofing” where you add distractions and alternative choices to see if your dog truly understands the command and the behavior that is being requested
There are many great clicker books out there. For beginners I really like “Quick Clicks.” You can get this books from http://www.dogwise.com

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http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...5838#post25838

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...4970#post14970

Last edited by yorkipower : 03-02-2005 at 01:06 PM.

[Ringo]

YorkiPower thanks for the info, but I already know about clicker training...my pup has been attending classes for over a month now. I think it's wonderful! I just didn't understand the part about how they "choices". I guess maybe you meant that they can choose to do the action or not?

[yorkipower]

Yeah, I think you’ve got it. The idea behind clicker training, as you know, is to get the dog to think for himself:: to try to figure out what is being asked. But even more than that, to make the dog want to work for the reward by offering a behavior that will earn that reward. So, the dog has a choice. If you are at your training facility, let’s say, and you’re trying to teach your dog to do a recall. He’s a good distance away from you and he’s supposed to come towards you with speed and stop in front of you in a front . . . he’s got many options open to him. He can get up, wander around, sniff the floor, bark at another dog. All those things do offer him a reward – from the environment. However, none of those things will earn him the liver bait in your hand. He’s got to figure out how to get that liver, and what will or won’t work, but that choice is his. There’s no negative to this, just the option among a number of rewarding options, some that have better “pay outs” than others. Clicker train a Yorkie and you’ve got a little but highly intelligent brain there whose going to think he’s training you, and will be out there, tail up and enthusiastic to work. That’s why I think it’s a much better choice to start out with.

I should add here that I am not completely against dominance theory or physical corrections. Under certain (and very limited) circumstances, I think they have their place. For instance, my agility dog is an adoption. He had a whole list of behavioral issues we needed to get through before I could do much with him. Among which was running off and attacking bigger dogs. When he ran into a highway and almost got hit by a car, I needed to stop this behavior right then and there. I did not yell at him when he finally returned to me, safe and sound, but I took him out the next day to a fence in, but large football field. I gave him the option to stay with me or take off (he was off lead) as soon as he turned away from me and tensed up, ready to spring, I jumped in front of him, and you may laugh, showed him my teeth, got down low, and stared him down. I even began to “growl.” When he walked forward towards me (he had this very pathetic look on his face, tail down, lower jaw chattering, head down, back rounded), I clicked and treated him (he shook himself out and the tail moved upwards). Again, I backed away, and gave him the option again. Once again, he tried to bolt, same thing. I did not need to do it a third time. We took the show on the road, visting different fields and parks and repeating this scenario, and by the end of that month, and ever since, I have (knock on wood) no trouble with him running off into the street on me (the large dog aggression is something I “manage” but, at this point, will probably always be there – if any one has successful handled fear aggression, I’d love to hear your success stories, btw). I DID use a dominant behavior on him and I DID take away his choice to bolt, but 1) I never laid a hand on him; 2) I was fully aware of his motivations; 3) I was working in a controlled setting without any anger; and 4) most importantly, I applied the negative reinforcement at the moment of the behavior, (not an hour later after I found my rug wet). I worry about giving people advice to “dominate” their dogs over a message board. In inexperienced hands, this can be a recipe for disaster and, what’s more, often people don’t really know what is going on or what their dogs are really doing when they see the “misbehavior.” Like the example of the 11 week puppy, there’s a very good chance that the puppy was playing but, at its young age, misjudged his bite pressure. I would never want to use a dominance theory tactic (other than, perhaps, a clasp of the muzzle either manually or with a halti and a soft, but firm, “no bite” or “leave it”) to modify that. I am glad the poster is seeking out the help of a professional trainer who will be able to tell if her dog truly is a problem child, or just an overzealous playmate.