In Illinois if a dog bites anyone, the dog has to be put down or the owner loses their homeowners insurance. It happened to us when a friends dog bit my husband. It was a terrible experience for everyone!

I agree never reach in to stop a dog fight. It is the quickest way to get bit. If you are outside we use a hose and squirt them.

Don't feel bad and many people have watched CM over the years and read his books. CM is really good at reading dogs and such but some of his methods in the past were too dominant and not very heavy on the obedience training or positive-reinforcement-based methods for helping correct bad behavior. By teaching the dog to slowly learn to trust his owner and see him as an authority figure/pack leader through learning to do what he says in the training and reward process, you achieve a well-behaved dog that has fewer if any issues. Training a dog in obedience and prompt command response makes them willing partners who obey our commands and rarely keep having behavior problems. With many nervous dogs or smaller dogs, those old dominance methods can really intimidate a dog and take away his confidence and trust. I've watched a few of CM's newer shows and he's veered away from that kind of training in those shows so maybe he's at lease changing ways.

I've heard of spraying water also, but I'm not too sure it would stop the fighting. Lifting the little male, Wyatt, the instigator, like that sounds like a good idea. I was thinking of having Jackie keep Wyatt in his soft, natural Buddy Belt just until this gets worked out. She needs something to pull him away from his brother, Widget, who's twice his size. Widget, the alpha, is very mellow and is a sweetheart, but he is the toy hoarder. Que Tee is now able to play with toys, so the apple cart has definitely been upset for both Widget and Wyatt. Wyatt is definitely jealous, but he has always been jealous. . He's a little doll and a lover, too, but he's not easy-going and mellow like Widget. Sometimes they fight over toys and sometimes it could be over jealousy. Dominance is definitely an issue. A beautiful little hellion, Que Tee, joined their family in February who is very brave. She doesn't get involved, but all of this fighting isn't making her into a fearful puppy. However, Jackie's other female, Hannah, is a Coton de Tulear, and these fights are upsetting her. I hate to see my very dear friend both physically and emotionally hurt, and I also don't want any of her precious babies hurt, either. My heart is breaking for Jackie, someone I love dearly. She is an amazing mom to her babies.

To Jacqui
 

I am so very sorry you are having to deal with this! That bite looks very sore. First things first, take very good care of that bite. Dis-infect at least 2x a day! I like to use Traumeel as well for any cuts or burns. It is quite fantastic, but does not substitute as an antiseptic. We can get it in Canada now even in say a Shoppers Drugmart. All health food stores are likely to carry it.

Just a gentle reminder that your breeder should have some pertinent advice for you, give her a call. I think she is training until 2pm today, then back home and out again around 6-9pm for training.

I like all of Jillies' suggestions. I also want to make sure you keep your face out of the way of that biter! Also get very long oven mitts, if you intend to use the raise the legs. Lift about the knees and closer up to the groin area.

It is such a scarey thing watching two dogs we love fight!

My trainer might disagree with me, but at this point, there would be NO loose toys laying around on the floor. Each dog has to work for their toy.

Crate or Xpen and rotate. That is One male out with one female, and switch it over.
Play in house or out in the backyard one at a time - the other is observing tethered, well the working dog, works for their toy. Start with five minutes and build up.
Walk those two males on separate leads with halters. And discipline the aggressor very very firmly with halter/and lead correction. Make them sit 2feet apart and you are holding both leads one in each . If one makes a move to the other, NO, that is not a yelling NO but from your belly a deep firm NO.

I am not explaining this too well about firmess of your voice. Behind your voice the most important thing to have is an un-equivocal belief in your right to abhor this action, and YOU WILL NEVER EVER ALLOW this to happen again.

REpeat this mantra to yourself. Quite frankly YOU Are the ALPHA in your household, every dog is secondary to you!.

It is that firm conviction (which I am sure Jillie has), and all great trainers have that their commands will be obeyed, just because they said them!

It is a calm but sincere conviction you want to build in yourself. Sure let your fear of injury to one of your loved ones fuel that conviction, help you stand firm with this conviction.

I will share a horror I found this weekend. ANd who is to blame? Why me of course.

I always thought that Razzle was just be deviling our gentle Karma our Maine Coone Cat. That they played games of chase over the house. THen Razzle started twoThree days ago to hump Karma. I stopped it when I saw it, but wasn't so concerned.

And then.... I had Karma up on the grooming table on Sat. As I was brushing his beautifull coat, I found not one but TWO bite marks on his neck. One looks infected:mad::mad::mad: Both areas I shaved the hair away, to see what I was dealing with and started the disinfection process. Karma is also into the vet 2morrow.

Dave and I looked at each other, and I said NEVER again. Razzle has gotten away with way way too much here.

We put Karma down and for 2hours that evening, we individually or together, blocked Razzle from coming up to Karma. His initial first rushes over were enthusiastic, and his surprise and consternation almost comic. We blocked with our feet - we stood in front of our cat, and at the same time said NO. Firmly but with 100% conviction.

By later that evening, Razzle needed only Voice command of Leave it, and he would turn and come back to us.
Sunday am same repetition, except by late afternoon we allowed Razzle to come gently up and "sniff" Karma, but if he started to mount or jump onto the cat, again it was Leave It by voice. If he ignored the voice command, either one of us picked him up and into his crate he went.

We do crate when we are out of the house, and we crate Razzman at night, so Karma's injuries came during the day or evening when he had full run of the house, without what should have been (hindsight) is grand, our oversight.

Razzle has by no means yet earned our trust with our precious Karma, and he might never --- we shall see. But he will never be allowed again to jump on Karma, or play roughly with him at all!

In summary I have a lot of concern and quite frankly a difference of opinion about the alpha dog theory.

In a household of humans and multiple dogs the Alphas are first humans, any human of the household, and then Beta goes to all the dogs.

Anyhow Jacqui (((Hugs))) that bite looks very sore, if there is any other way I can help you have my phone number call me anytime!

Thank you
 

Thanks to all who have responded to my call for help. I hope I soon can figure it out before anyone gets seriously injured.

Gail you always have my admiration and I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I am just so confused about this. Wyatt and Widget have never had so much as a growl between them for the entire life of Wyatt until recently. I just do not believe it is anything to do with the new addition. Widget has never been aggressive but he does maintain control of the toys. He has never fought with anyone over a toy. He just matter- of- factly takes it from Wyatt or whomever has it. Not a growl or any confrontation just walks up and pulls it from them unless I happen to see it and tell him no or if he has taken it I tell him to drop it. He is a very obedient dog. It seems lately the only time there are any problems is if one of them is laying by me and the other approaches me. It is Wyatt that starts with his growl and in the past that has been the end of it. I tell him to knock it off and he does, but lately this quickly escalates to a battle. I just can't believe seeing them fight, that I have never found bite marks or even bruises on either. The fights seem to be getting more aggressive. I have a very shy Havanese who is getting really stressed by these fights. It is not that they don't get along. Many times they will be laying on my bed next to each other. They walk together fine, they even eat together with no signs of any sort of disagreement. It is something I am doing but I just can't figure out what. Wyatt has always been the one that goes in the car with me but only because Widget hates going in the car. When QueTee came along she always joined Wyatt and he has no problem with her sitting in the car seat with him. I could put widget in he car seat with Wyatt and there would be no fighting but I would have one very unhappy boy. I spend equal time with them and they both have alone time with me. I have started taking Wyatt at the first growl and putting him in a separate room away from everyone. When I reunite them it seems to be back to normal. I just can't bring myself not to intervene and protect them from hurting each other. I now keep the buddy belts on them so I have something to grab when I separate them. It really has upset me and the whole gang but at least it is not a constant problem where I have to be afraid when ever they are near each other.
I'm glad you discovered poor Karma's injuries but sorry you too have to deal with this.

Here are some thoughts from experiences I've had to consider and see if any of it might fit your situation. Working on limited knowledge but going off what you've posted just above, here goes:

If you are in the middle of this problem between your dogs because there is possessiveness involved, that is something you can work to stop but you will have to make some changes and also determine which one is guarding you and doesn't want the other to have much access to you. Who knows what made it start or how long they lived in peace together and who really cares as you have got to fix it by taking control of the situation and not letting the dogs run the show. If Wyatt is doing the growling, he's probably the one who is so possessive but not necessarily. He could - could - just be reacting to the other dog's signals of "She's mine - don't you come near while I'm here" and growling back at those and getting tense. His tension tenses up the first dog and more signals are sent and you soon have a fight over mommie.

No matter how well your little guys are already trained, I would start and at all times enforce the Nothing In Life Is Free program for everything for a few weeks, right down to even their water for the first week but everything else for a few weeks after that. Get them obeying a command for everything they get or do. It's a marvelous tool for doggies acting out in any way. I would stop the dog lying next to me when the other is around until they are farther along in their rehab from this present unstable state. Make them lie on the floor or in their beds for a time and treat them for staying in their beds.

I would obedience train each of them x3 daily for 5 mins. each session, giving big treats and smiles and praise for each accomplishment no matter how many times they have done the tricks and get them working with you one at a time and then together. Good working sessions help give a dog structure and enjoyment and confidence in his own worth and achievement, not to mention teaching him to do what you say quickly to get his praise and reward.

Desensitize the trouble-maker to your playing and loving on the other dog. Put the very possessive dog in his open wire crate and sit down next to it with the other dog and play with that dog right there on the floor by the crate, all the while tossing a juicy piece of chicken into the crate every time there is physical touch between the dog you are caressing and playing with. Don't worry if the one in the crate becomes agitated by this or growls at first as this activity goes against his possessive attitude. Ignore this for the present and allow him to slowly come to accept the interaction over time. Keep the sessions about a minute or two long at first and then allow the crated dog out, put the other dog in the crate with a treat. I would let the just-freed dog outside to pee, decompress and run off any pent-up frustrations and stay outside to play and explore a while. If you can manage it, a fast walk would be good at this time to kind of work and then relax him. Bring him in the house for water and a good rest and allow the other dog now to go outside to pee, play and walk if possible. By the time these two are back together, they should have their frustrations worked out for a while, be pleasantly tired and ready to co-exist peacefully for a while. For the present, don't let either dog lie next to you but in his bed on the floor with the other dog.

I wouldn't let one or the other next to me for a while during this training until you have gone through the desensitization exercises for about two weeks and prolonged the playing sessions with the non-jealous dog while the jealous dog is in the crate watching as you play and getting his treats when physical touch occurs between you and the other dog.

In time, the jealous dog can then be moved out of the crate on the leash and told to lie down and watch as you play with the other dog and toss the little possessive one a treat every so often. Watch his body language and if he begins focus, alert, get tense, growl or get agitated, stand up and tell him "No" with your hand held out in a stop position in front of you. Stand there over him making constant eye contact until he backs down and calms down, even putting the other dog in the crate while the little growler settles himself back down. But stand there calmly until he does. Take deep breaths and never get angry. You are watching a baby boy learning to accept changes and it is hard for him and he needs time to work through it. When he does settle, sit and obviously watch him for a while, catching his eye and then treat him and bring the other dog back out and resume the play, treating little Mr. Possessive all the while but letting him know you are watching him.

Little by little you should be able to show the possessive dog that you are in charge of their interactions, that play with the other dog is highly rewarding for him because Mr. Jealous is treated frequently the whole time and you will not allow him to growl and takeover control. He'll be used to obeying you because that obedience training and NILIF work that you will be doing concurrently during these weeks will all the while be conditioning him to always do what you say quickly and to learn to love obeying you.

After a two-weeks' time, you should be able to allow the other dog to lie next to you for brief periods while you toss treats over to the jealous dog and then praise him, let him outside to potty, play and release his tensions and then switch the two out, letting the other dog out for a while.

Next teach Widget to lie quietly by in the crate as you play with toys with Wyatt, treating Widget with treats tossed in the crate and following the desensitization training above. Do not allow Widget to feel he has control of the toys any further now that fights have happened and allow him to slowly learn that the toys are yours and as pack leader, you and you alone decides who plays with them when. With fighting dogs, it just has to be this way. Some never really do come to accept toys being played with by the other dog or dogs if the pack leader isn't really in control and it is always a problem. But if you are gentle but very firm and slowly decondition them to owning toys themselves, Desensitize them to seeing other dogs play with toys they had thought were their own and on board with playing by your rules, they will submit to that situation in time. I've seen it work time after time.

With most dogs, this type of intense training and desensitization sessions work together to teach them who is pack leader and in firm control and is taking the time to teach the trouble-maker how to accept his pack mate in a way he'd come to strongly dislike. He learns that he doesn't have the place of authority in your pack and he can't make those kinds of decisions and dogs are readily able to change and love a good, strong, loving leader. Dogs are genetically programmed to accept hierarchy and thrive on it so don't be afraid to take and hold control. Sometimes with boys(or even girls) it is just necessary!!! :)