Crates VS. X-pens
 

:confused:I am wondering what to do to help my puppy become house broken. The breeder I am getting my puppy from does not agree with crate training. I really would like to follow the breeders instructions, but I think my lifestyle may not be appropriate for this type of training. For one, I do not work at home. I work 8 hour night shifts so, I am not there to take the dog out every so often to teach where to go etc. I feel like leaving a puppy in a play pen might be delaying the training portion (BTW... I am not planning on keeping my pup in a crate for 8+ hours). The reason why is because it will be peeing where it sleeps, play, eats.. etc.

I saw a crate called the "puppy apartment". Is anyone familiar with or has used this product?

I think I am most worried about changing the personality of the pup (because they are not caged and pampered) to having to be in a crate for housebreaking. Otherwise I feel that leaving my pup in a pen would delay potty training.

Am I going about this wrong? Can I properly housebreak a puppy in a x-pen?

Thanks!

I'm using an x-pen for the first time and I really like it. I have 2 new yorkie pups and they have never gone any where except on the pee pad while in the x-pen. We're still working on them using the pads when I let them loose in the kitchen. Sometimes they use the pad and other times not but I know it's just going to take time. I have to watch their every move. It's also nice knowing they have access to food and water when I'm not home. Good luck!!!

If you want your pup to use pee pads then I think that an xpen would work out just fine for you, if you want an outside potty only dog I think that the crate would work better. The crate gives less space and would help teach bladder control whereas the xpen with pee pads allow the dog to potty at will, but will hopefully help the pup learn to use the pads. Does any of this make sense?

Thank you both for your insight. I would like to have my pup go inside and out. Initially,:o I just want him to use the pee-pads and learn not to go in the house. My intention is when I am not working and when I get home, to take my pup out to a designated area to go. I am thinking that this method would prevent him from learning bladder control and he will be peeing on pee pads for life. I'm not sure

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I agree with this assessment.....

I use the x pen with Morgan but he uses both the puppy pads and goes outside

I'm away from home for about 9 hours during the week days, so I have set up and ex-pen for my Maxi, with a pet loo (artificial grass potty), and when he is in teh ex-pen he always uses the pet loo...

I also trained him to ring a bell to tell him he needs to and then I take him outside, so when my husband and I are home Maxi rings the bell to go potty outside. He hasn't had any accidents for about two weeks (he's only 4.5 months).

Good luck!

Unless you can take the puppy out every hour, you really can't crate train. Puppies can hold it longer during the night, urine production slows down, but a young pup will only hold it two or three hours at night. You could keep it in a crate overnight and take it outside every few hours, and during the day keep it in the x -pen with plenty of pee pads. When you get home from work, you could take it outside and reward it for going pee. Pee pads are a great convenience for humans, and if you are going to be gone for long periods of time, there really are necessities.

this is just my opinion but i think 8 or 9 hours in a crate during the day is way too long...
at night is different because they are sleeping anyway.
for daytime a better option would be an ex pen..

Thanks for the input. This is why I am wondering if the "Pet Apartment" is a good idea. Here is the link Puppy Apartment

This combines the idea of crate training without fully restricting them to hold it. What do you think about this as an alternative to keeping my pet in a x-pen?

I can always in the future train my do to only go outside, right? Maybe when they have more bladder control at 6-7 months?

Thank you. I am also considering using the bell training method. I want my dog to use the pads if needed when I am not there and alert me to take outside when I am. How long did it take for Maxi to learn the bell method? How did you begin? Ring the bell then take him outside? If so, how are you going to help him differentiate that ringing the bell does not mean go outside and play, it means go potty?

My idea was not to leave him in a crate for that amount of time. I saw a product called "Puppy Apartment" it is a spin on the idea of crate training because the dog can cross over and use the pee pads. Please take a look and give me your feedback. I posted a link in another response.

Thanks!

Do you think pee pads are a necessity once the puppy is grown up?

I think potty pads are a necessity for any full-time working dog owner.

You said you are away from home 9 hours on work days. Do you not use the restroom from the time you leave home until you return? Could you easily 'hold it' all day, everyday?

What about times you stop at the store on your way home, or go out to dinner right after work with friends/co-workers? Or what about when the unexpected happens....accident on the road/highway or your own car breaking down/flat tire, etc., delays your return home?

Personally, I think it's cruel to expect a dog to hold it that length of time. Potty pads are a great solution for small dog owners, who for safety reasons, can't install a doggie-door for their pup to use while they are gone frome home.

I didn't read the other posts but as a breeder of Yorkies, I would not sell a yorkie to you with your schedule at this time. If you are going to insist on getting a puppy, who in their right mind would expect a baby to 'hold it' for over 8 hours? An adult toy dog usually can't. Yorkies will easily take well over a year to housebreak at the best of times. If you insist on getting a puppy in these circumstances, xpen would be the best solution with a wee wee pad, bed, toys, food, water etc. Be prepared to end your social life as your other than work hours should be devoted to your dog.
Putting them in a crate for that long will change their personality, into a neurotic unhappy miserable wee being likely end up in rescue because it will be pooping and peeing in the crate as you left no other options. When they gotta go they gotta go. Got to work and don't go all day until after you get home and take th epup out, see how you do. Rethink what you are doing and shame on the breeder selling to you, I would NOT!

I do not know why some individuals are inplying that I would leave my pup in a crate for 8 hours. I NEVER said I would leave my pup in a crate for 8 hours. I never even mentioned leaving my dog in a crate period. I am asking advice. Plus, I specifically asked about a crate called a "Puppy Apartment" that allows a dog to travel back and forth. I wanted to know what everyone thought about it and if they have used it. All-in-all I want what is best for my dog and is why I am asking questions to find the best solutions. I have not even included pertinent information anyway for anyone to come to the conclusion they would not sell me a puppy. :confused:

Some of you are focusing on the wrong things. I am asking for suggestions based on the information I am giving. Some answers I am getting are based off assumptions. Please don't bash me when you are mis-informed and are not reading my full post. I already know it is going to take time and dedication. I will be prepared for that when the time comes. I am looking for advice on the execution of welcoming a new puppy and properly raising a happy and healthy Yorkie. This is more than well in advance of me getting the dog. I have been in and out these forums long before I became a member (which is almost a year ago) and I am not planning on getting the dog until I finish my Masters (next year) so I can be fully dedicated, but I am making preperations now. I think I am more than dedicated.

Tell me the right way, don't bash me for asking.

I am not sure who wrote this "Putting them in a crate for that long will change their personality, into a neurotic unhappy miserable wee being likely end up in rescue because it will be pooping and peeing in the crate as you left no other options" thank you for this input. This was my concern. I have not heard anyone else say this and could not find any information saying it would change the personality. I trust your judgment.

Thanks.

Thats another thing... crates don't really allow room for food and water. I don;t feel comfortable with that.

Thanks for the input.

Um, wow. You kinda got your butt handed to you for no good reason, didn't you?
=(
The ONLY thing I can see defending Lorainne about is that she says flat out that she didn't read the other posts, nor obviously your original post in it's entirety. If she HAD she would have read that YOU stated flat out that you weren't going to be leaving the pup crated for 8+ hours!
I'm sorry for this happening, I know that you were just trying to get some helpful info. I hope that you were able to get some of that in prior replies.

Yes, I sure did. :) I don't sweat the small stuff. However, I defend myself as necessary. Ha!

I am getting valuable information despite the nay-sayers interceptions. :D

Ditto AngelFae :)

I too have to work outside the home and we also try to be very concious of the amount of time we leave our pups. Our solution this time though was to get two (littermates). It was the best decision ever! They keep each other company and really do enjoy each other.

I really don't know anything about the pet apartment. We have our boys trained using pee pads (washable ones - as they can tear apart and ingest the disposable ones) and keep one at the end of the "run". I purchased an Iris plastic pen that can be enlarged (or scaled down by removing panels) and bends to either use as a rectangular run or more of a hexagon. Here's the link:
Amazon.com: Iris CI-908 Indoor/Outdoor Plastic... Have been very happy with it. We keep the door open when we're home and the boys have been known to go in there and sleep on occasion (when not on our laps or piled on our feet :) It is high enough that I'm not concerned about them getting out. It's also large enough that they have space to move around. Honestly, when we leave them in there for several hours, they only pee on the pad and not anywhere else. They've used it since we brought them home just before 3 months. It transports easily and we're planning on taking it with us when we take the boys on their first vacation next summer.

Good luck and best wishes with the new family member!

Thanks for your feedback!

I also have viewed the Iris pen on Amazon. What caused me to steer away was the reviews. Many reviews mentioned that their pet could jump over the gate. Every dog is different, but I don't want to take the risk. It is something I will certainly considering for another use. Maybe when traveling as you have mentioned.

I am trying to attach an image of the playpen I am considering. I am unable to at the moment. :(

I wish I could because I think many would find it efficient. It's high, so less concern about Yorkie jumpers. The panels are vertical so, a bit more difficult for our Yorkie climbers. Also it can be shaped from rectangle to hexagon and its made from sturdy plastic (similar to Little Tykes jungle gyms). In addition, there is a bottom cover that can also be used as a top to protect them outdoors etc. I am wondering if it is too much space for training purposes.

While I liked the look of it, my ZoE scaled the walls of the IRIS pen at about 10 weeks old. It was a safety hazard, as I was worried she'd fall over the top of it. I don't recommend it at all!

I ended up using a child's playpen, the Superyard XT. It worked well, as she couldn't scale the walls, and I liked that I could easily take panels out and make it smaller.

A friend of mine as chihuahuas that are hardcore climbers. She uses a huge dog crate as a playpen for them, & has a bed & food/water toys at one end and potty pads at the other.

Some on here have had a good experience with the potty apartment you described....I believe member SouthernBelle04 successfully used it with her little girl Katie Scarlett.

I think is wonderful that you are doing your research before you get your puppy :)

I use an x-pen during the day and the puppy apartment at night. You can also hook the x-pen to the puppy apartment and leave the door open so he can go in and use the pad. I love mine. She went potty the very first time I put her in there. I got the small puppy apartment and she fits very well inside. Hope this helps. Oh I never take my puppy out to potty. She always uses the pen. When I go to peoples houses, I just take a pad and take her to the bathroom to use it.

hi, yes i know what a puppy apartment is. i am not trying to be rude honestly but it is still just a crate..
you said you dont plan on leaving him in it for 8 hours or more so what happens when you are work ?( if you go with the crate that is...) then when you get home and go to bed , does he go back in the crate ? that is another 8 hours..
unless you or someone else lets him out of the crate every couple of hours isnt he in fact going to be in the crate for 8 hours or more.. i personally would prefer an expen . i think it would be better for the pup .. he could have his potty pads and bed and some toys and more importantly his food and water. something to keep him occupied while mom is away... i am not judging you or telling you what to do just giving my opinion which you ask for, whether you use the crate or the expen is your business. :)

My pups are almost 14 weeks and so far they have not attempted to scale the walls of their x-pen but anything is possible. My little girl Maggie would be the one to do it. LOL! Barkley, the yorkie I had previous to these little ones was crate trained but he would still have accidents in the house so I don't know if anything is 100% fool proof. I think it depends on the dog and how much effort you put into training them. If the puppy apartment is enclosed and that makes you feel more secure then I would go with that.

Thanks for your revuew of the pupoy apartment. I am under the impression you ONLY want hour dog to potty inside. I like tye idea of puppy pads because like you have mentioned: "when you go to peoples houses...". The puppy can have comfort in knowing where they can go.

Ha! You just never know with these little guys! I am not sure where I read it, but someone suggested never take the out from the top of the pen. It helps to keep them obliviouse that they can get out that way. I am planning to put 150% into training (as soon as I figure out my method).

Thanks for the input!

No worries :) My dog will never be left unattended for 8 hours intentionally.

Thanks for your input.

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Great Attitude! We are all passionate about these babies, and frequently, there are specific things that can "set us off", as individuals and as breeders.....please, read all the posts, and take away from each one, what pertains to you and your circumstance. Over the years, I have had my head handed to me on a platter because I said something, or asked about something that was either way off base and completely out of the realm of reality....(like thinking when I first got into breeding, that my females would all alternate and come into season every 6 months, and that way, I could breed a different female every 4 months, giving me no more than 3 litters per year from 3 different females!) or just plain stupid or potentially dangerous to both my dogs and myself...(like allowing visitors that just wanted to "see puppies", come into my home, willy nilly, whenever they called and asked....police had to be called to get a crazy man out of my house, and I had a visitor that had been God only knows where, looking at all kinds of puppies, bring parvo into my home, and give it to my precious little UNVACCINATED, 4 WEEK OLD babies...). I was chastised unmercifully by some pretty important, very knowledgable, long time breeders and show people, for being "just plain stupid", "you dumb-azz", "idiot", "hahahahahaha, you cant be serious??!!", etc......You learn from the harshest critics as well as the more gentle ones.....pull on your big girl panties...read every post you get, and use what you can use....but be open minded about the critical ones....usually, it is the voice of years of experience that is chastising you.....you can REALLY benefit from those also....maybe gives you a whole different view you never thought of!!!! BUT DONT GET PITZED OFF, TAKE YOUR TOYS AND LEAVE, AND SLAM THE DOOR ON THE BEST SOURCE OF LEARNING YOU CAN POSSIBLY FIND!!! You handled this first test very well!! Welcome to YT!! (You can tell when a person is just being hateful and mean...chit-can those responses if you get any!)