Put your hand on the fire and say, "I didn't see that coming"
He was evidently provoking the aggressive behavior to kick some action into his show.

Some things about his philosophy make sense, like that we create many unwanted behaviors on our dogs because we fail to provide discipline and excess n affection. It's line raising a kid. 0 discipline and only affection leads to trouble.

However, I don't agree nor like his intimidating methods. He goes too far and gets into abusive side. He makes dogs anxious and it's an irony how he considers that, "a calm dog" when he is obviously super anxious.

I just don't get how or why people keep seeking his help. Just see the owner's faces-- they aren't enjoying what they see and I see it n every show.

Most children are taught not to bother a animal or try to take his food when eating :twocents:

I would not want him in the same room with my babies :(

I completely agree Betty! My son knows not to go around Georgie when he is eating for a couple of reasons. One being I believe Georgie should be given his space to eat and secondly Georgie gets a little feisty. I just don't understand why he gave her the food, said good girl as if to reassure her she could eat then took it away? What did he think would happen? I think he's a little man that can't dominate humans so he does it to dogs JMO

Awh I have a whole lot to say about this whole video. First we stopped watching CM years ago, and one of our most often comments was gawd - he would not have gotten away doing x/y or z with our big boy Magic. And that would not have been a pleasant encounter for him either.

Now to the video; what comes to my mind immediately is the question; What came before? What was the history of the dog? What did CM try first? Second? or Third? But if this was his first "technique" to try to address food aggression issues, it quite simply was Way Way Overboard!. And I am talking from the time he stood in a challenging frontal position over her while she was eating!.

I will disagree with part of the analysis of the blogspot Brit posted. And ramp forward to when the dog had been laying quietly and CM from a standing position with a soft hand went over her muzzle to pet her. There was as far as I could see no warning in her body language at all. She could have ducked her head away from an unwanted pet; not go for his hand. Now I am only speaking personally but if I a stranger to this dog, had had some severe warnings and snaps and growls when I took the bowl away; I would not have stood over her and tried to pet her, no matter that she had been laying quietly for 1 or 2 minutes.

What would I have done? Quite simply call the dog to me and ask for a sit, reward with a treat from that food bowl, if she had obeyed that command.

I also concur CM was an idiot not to be dressed appropriately for a bite!!!!

And yes that Holly could have hurt him more, as a Lab or Lab mix they were bred to have soft mouths! Not to crunch down on the birds they would be retreiving from water/land.

When I saw that dog go for the hand in the petting situation; no way would I have this dog around toddlers. This dog is NOT SAFE for toddlers.

DID CM aggressively pursue and set up an untenable situation YOU BETCHA! So So un necessary, at least given the history very short that we have seen.

To answer the question (1) - one of the requisites of dogs is that when you say "stop" eating they will let you take the food bowl away. Ideally you work towards not needing to say anything and take it away.

Now in training (what I have been taught) the sequence is. Dog's name you call. you have a high value treat in hand. They lift their head from the food bowl, you say Good BOY immediate reward with that treat. Say go ahead eat your food. You repeat this two or three times for every meal.

SAme scenario, but once the dog lifts its head you reward, and you take the bowl away. The dog is to remain seated. You reward the sit. You can use his actual food in bowl to reward with. This is very powerfull. The dog knows that this is his food bowl, and you the master is feeding him from it.

Then you move onto, as above, then still treating him you place bowl back down, and say WAIT. He waits you reward him. Then you release him to free feed.

As you can see this is motivational mindset; how-ever some dogs do not train well or easily; and btw they are very very few indeed.

I will relate a true life story for Magic my very dominant - not so aggressive big boy. He was not toy or food (regular) food aggressive, but give him a bone a real meaty bone, and watch out!! At about 1yr old and 90 or more pounds hubby tried to take his bone away, Magic was contentedly chewing it in the backyard and hubby wanted to mow the lawn. He growled,then he snarled, then he air snapped. By this time hubby is incensed. Hubby is shouting at him! Magic give it, Magic drop it!
It was by now male testosterone coming up against male testosterone. When I got into the backyard, hubby had Magic's neck noosed up and he was on his hind legs, Magic had his bone in his mouth and wouldn't let go for love nor money. It was an awful racket going on!!:mad::mad: I intervened. I said hubby stop this!! Let him go! oNCE done I called Magic to me. He came. Still growling. I said GOOD COME!! DOWN! He went down still with bone in his mouth. I left the situation there. Why? I was not sure how to "safely" proceed. Magic obeyed two commands was out of the way of the lawn mower. I needed to talk with my trainer! Which I did. I DID NOT TRY to repeat two commands Dave was unsuccessful with. I knew enough not to do that!

So then what? Well we set up on our next training day, another "helper". I came with double collars and long leads for Magic. Also two nice fresh meaty bones. He was double collared, and the two leads were hung over tree branches on opposite sides of the tree. If Magic was not willing to exchange one lovely meaty bone for the next, and snarled lunged etc, he would be hung up from that tree. I agreed with trepidation. So I walked forward to him, and his sit/stay reward was one of those juicy bones. We let him chew for a minute or more, all leads loose. I walked away, and got the second bone. Approached Magic, btw face on. With that other juicy bone in hand. I said Magic SIT - he sat!. I said Give it.... He gave it and I immediately placed the fresh bone in his mouth with a BIG GOOD BOY. We worked for about 30 minutes with this; until finally he would just give up his bone for a nice pat and GOOD BOY!. Also he would get the bone back at some point in time.

So we learnt together.

The difficulty is with toddlers and young children, you just can't trust them not to stumble into a food bowl, or want to investigate a food bowl. They are after all just very young children! So the dog has to be trained to be non food aggressive to anyone.:)









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I don't know the before of the video but I have the feeling that the dog had some bad encounters with the owners before CM was called in. If a dog is expecting being hit or in some way physically disciplined you have already set yourself up for an ugly encounter.

It appeared to me in the video that CM was way out of line by taking that physically aggressive stance over the dog. He was challenging that dog to a fight. Then he acted surprised that he got one. He was still in an aggressive mode when he followed the dog who had retreated. The dog was anticipating a bad encounter and decided to get in the first lick. Once people have set up a pattern of thinking in a dog's mind that dog is going to anticipate the actions of the person.

Molly did not know this guy who was picking a fight with her in a situation that she was already known to have issues with. She retreated and he followed her and continued to challenge her with his stance. She is standing there wondering what comes next and it appears she decided he wanted a fight. It is sheer ignorance for a person (a stranger at that) to aggressively challenge a dog like that in such a situation.

It's one thing to establish yourself as the leader in the relationship with a dog. It is another thing to do it by being physically dominant. You can't count on physical dominance to train a dog. The relationship has to be based on respect and trust with consistent training methods.

If anything the Dog Whisperer show in general reinforced to me just how clueless most pet owners are about dog training.

I agree with defending himself but I have seen him use that side kick in the ribs just to get a dog's attention and not during an aggressive encounter just when the dog was not obeying his commands.

:( so sad

There's another really easy way to treat a food guarder -- just put a little bit of food in the bowl at a time. Then the dog is waiting for you to give them more food, rather than guarding their bowl full of treasure. One simple switch, and the whole dynamic is changed.

I know, right? He said its happened more than once. Seriously? You can't be bothered to release your dog from a command that somebody else taught them?

Wow! He didn't see that coming? Really? I quit watching Cesar a long time ago. I don't like his "training techniques" at all.

To my mind, he'd been poking at that dog over her food-bowl guarding for quite some time, clearly pushing the dog further & further toward her limit and she no doubt had built up a full store of adrenaline as he stood almost over her in dominance. Though she was showing signs of submission, there were still sure signs of uncertainty in everything about her as she was still processing what had just taken place and still Cesar approached to pet! Unless that dog had gone into full submission, turned away with soft eyes, nudged me gently with her muzzle, rolled onto her back or lowered her hind quarters, wagged her behind at me, done a good bit of liplicking and a good deal more "down time" had passed, I wouldn't have tried to pet that soon after pushing a dog to the limit(which I wouldn't do anyway). Cesar clearly hadn't ended the "session" by saying "release" to the dog, walking away from her or otherwise indicating the session was over, which, clearly in the dog's mind, it wasn't - so she was still in it as far as she was concerned.

To me, when you have had any type of discipline confrontation with a misbehaving dog, if you don't "release" it from the session in some way, they can remain super alert & waiting for more for quite a while. If I have had to discipline a dog, once the discipline and f/u eye contact is done, I release the dog verbally and walk away, allowing the dog out of training/discipline mode and resuming dog mode as soon as he can. Doggie is usually quiet in manner and dealing with what just happened in his mind for a while, checking me out with an occasional glance. He'll sniff the ground, act casual but still you can tell he's left a bit unsure for a time. Then, when the dog has had time to process the session and think about it a while, has started to act himself again, checked me out enough to know I'm done with it all, his tail is back up, etc., I look at him, smile, allow him to come to me and then I pet & love the dog, though a bit reserved still for the remains of the hour.

That's how a mother or alpha dog disciplines - they doesn't discipline with teeth, show teeth & growl or a smack with a firm paw, stand over the underling a while and then immediately kiss or nuzzle it (essentially pet it, as CM tried to do). No. They discipline, stand over or very near with eye contact and then clearly break the session, walking away for a good while, letting the pup or underling process the lesson. Later, they resume normal relationship but only after a good little while and they wait for the underling to come to them with the proper attitude! Cesar did not break away and allow that dog to think, process, relax before he tried affection/touching. And considering the Draconian methods he'd used, the poor girl had a lot to try to process and deal with. To my way of thinking, he spoiled the whole "lesson" by jumping the gun - trying to pet. And I use the term "lesson" advisedly, as all he "taught" Holly that day was to resent him.

P. S. I should add that I agree with gemy that aggressively dominating a resource guarder is no way to treat that behavior problem. Disciplining them while they are guarding over their bowl is not a good way either. I use the savory treat exchange/redirection method also - never try to bully the dog away from the bowl. It just tends to polarize the situation.

I find his method revolting. He was acting like a bad dog. He got exactly what he was asking for. I don't believe in trying to scare or dominate a dog into submission.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

My question is how did this Lab get this way in the first place? Sad video

I think I read that CM is quitting "Whisper" series....could it be because of several "questionable actions, encounters" with a couple dogs, lately? This video of the lab we are talking about here, and then I read about a rescued dog that was aggressive, a guest challenged the dog over his food bowl like her had learned on CM's htow, the dog lunged and caught the man square in the face....needed 10 stitches...and the dog was returned to the pound and euthanized.

I read this is the last season of the Cesar Millan show, too. I can remember watching one or two episodes where he did train fearful dogs out of most of their fear through patient redirection and positive reinforcement but those episodes were years back. I hadn't seen an episode in a long while until he did 2 or 3 in the U.K. and then I caught the "Worst Bite" episode. That really did it for me with his show. I hope it was a good lesson to all who do watch to NOT to try that technique, unlike the poor guy who got his face bitten!

I don't like him at all! There is no variety in his approaches to problem dogs. No dog is one size fits all.

Our trainers work with us to find a solution that works for our particular dog(s) and handler.

Our most challenging dog was Zoey (rip love). She was a fear biter and very unpredictable. We worked hundreds of hours with her, with two different trainers. We made inroads, but still we would never have trusted her around children or non "dog" ppl. We worked with her alone, with my very stable boy Magic, with Razzle, with all different folks and scenarios.
She was best with Magic, as he is alpha, and she took her clues from not only me but him. She felt very secure with him, as he was lead protector. She also had very little "signalling" of a bite, and that was a huge problem! No growls, snarls, air snaps, barks, nothing! Except a very small moment of time when she went from "still" to bite!

Magic was a challenge in different ways. Very secure, confident and dominant. He thought he should always run things. And very very protective of me and is pack. You could not "discipline" him in harsh ways, the rock just got harder! Re-direction, respect, constant training, fun and good rewards, all worked with him!

Most rescource guarders are as such because at some point a or several recourses were scarce.

Maybe this dog was a rescue, maybe the owners fault, I for what its worth actually had the kids feed the dogs and gently pet oyur dogs backs while they ate to prevent food agression.

So far it has worked for us, we did have a Princess Scoobers snarl roll over her trying to steal his bully stick.

Feeding by hand is a great but risky way to curb it.

The number 1 reason our local pound puts dogs down sadly is not health nor lack of adoptions but agression and most notably over food.

I personally don't see anything wrong with how he handled that dog..

Never been a fan. :( Don't care for his tactics at all.

:eek:

Haha I realized as soon as I had posted that comment that people might find it shocking. But I mean that's a big dog, what else is he expected to do at this point to train him. He needs to show dominance. Friendly positive encouragement wouldn't work this far in the game I believe. It's not ok for a dog to ever bite a human even if he was threatened. Maybe Cesar should have seen it coming but it doesn't make it ok for the dog to feel like he could bite a human just because a human was standing over him and showing dominance. My friend has a pure breed large dog who wasn't handled with force at first. That quickly got out of hand and my friend really had to show who was dominant to get the dog to stop behaving badly. Cesar has been a trainer for a long time so he probably knows what's needed in teachin a dog who is that aggressive. But I may 100% be wrong. I've never personally owned an aggressive animal so I don't actually know what it's like. Couldn't care less for Cesar or his show but I think the dog was the one in the wrong in this situation. I don't mean to argue with everyone. Prob should have kept my thoughts to myself on this one..

I don't agree with what he did, but I just don't see how it is so much different than his other "training" methods. I'd bet most supporters on YT would have a big problem if Cesar came to their house and started treating their dogs how he treats the ones on tv. It is always written off as, "oh, he didn't kick the dog. He tapped it", "Static mats are find for big dogs", "It is ok that he does xyz because that dog was big/bad, etc.", "It is ok that a dog was overworked to the extreme on his property because he wasn't there". I could train like this, make soe dogs "submit", and get big bucks too.

I know he is thought of as a large breed trainer. i wouldn't let him touch any large breed dog of mine with a ten foot pole. Him putting himself in that position to get bitten needlessly shows me that he has no clue what he is doing. That is not how to train a dog. He could have kept himself safe, dropped the dominance attitude, and actually worked with the dog. I don't believe in positive reinforcement being used 100% of the time. I have no problem saying "no". But to try and dominate an aggressive dog...you will get hurt. And it doesn't matter how much control you think you have over an aggressive dog just because of your "calm energy". A history of fear aggression means it will likely happen again - and dominant or not that dog is probably stronger than you. It is ridiculous to put oneself in that much danger on purpose.

10000% agree. I used to be one of those people. "Oh, that dog NEEDED that." etc etc.

Now when I watch him, knowing a lot more about dog training and dogs in general than I did two-three years ago, it makes me ill.

First, I do not consider Cesar a dog trainer. He himself claims to train people, not the dogs. He 'rehabilitates' dogs using a method that was debunked by the very people who came up with the theory.

No, sorry, it IS okay for a dog to bite a human that is acting that way towards it. And this dog in particular showed a TON of restraint. She probably could have killed him -- she chose to give a warning bite (after MULTIPLE warning signs to 'back off'). This is how dogs communicate. We as humans have the capability to actually speak to someone and say "look, I'm uncomfortable with this. Let's try another method." Dogs do not have the advantage to do this. If someone approached me in a domineering, intimidating manner and I asked them again and again and again to get out of my face and they ignored me, kept coming at me, and backed me into a corner, would I be explosive if I shoved them away from me? It's not the dog's fault... we as humans can explain through words, and can shove, or hit. For a dog a hit or a shove is a bite. That dog showed incredible patience and gave plenty of warning signs.

Keep in mind, I'm somewhat of a 'crossover' as I used to defend Cesar to no end. I'm so glad I opened my eyes. If anyone EVER touched my dog the way he does to dogs, they'd have their face kicked in by me. Jackson is one of the most well behaved dogs that I know, and yes I'm biased, lol, but it's true, he really is. His biggest issue is he will alert bark when someone new walks in the door. He stops when I tell him 'enough'. If Cesar walked in my door, and started 'cshh'ing and poking him, Jackson would completely have a breakdown and probably never trust people again. All it takes it for the new person to walk in, let them sniff his hand, maybe give him a treat, I let him know it's okay and all is well with the world. It breaks my heart to see how the dogs will cower into 'submission' and it makes me think if MY dog was in that situation.

Cesar torments dogs .... he gets them into defensive behavior, agitates them on purpose to push them past their limit, and then hurts them for it (gets them into trouble). The psychological damage he causes dogs is ridiculous. They live in a constant state of worry, stress and helplessness. Chronic stress, as most know, does a lot of harm to living beings both physiologically and psychologically ... raises blood pressure, respiration rate, and heart rate, increases cortisol levels and adrenalin, among other physically damaging things when they're so high and constant. He literally knows nothing about dog behavior and goes on and on about how 'dominant' a dog is without paying any attention the signs a dog is giving us. I can't believe that at one time I was so blind to not see it while watching his show. REALLY learn about dog behavior - read and study up on canine body language and then watch Cesar's show ... even better... watch it in silence! Watch the dogs body language when interacting with Cesar.

Yes I love that he preaches exercise and being calm. But honestly? That's about it these days. After seeing the Holly video, which is a recent video, I was totally done with him. It's very odd to me because he does truly seem to love dogs, but it's like his pride and ego can't get in the way and say 'I was wrong' and try to listen to the current SCIENCE of dog training. He's got to have this macho domineering image. Just let it go, dude.

Watch this... this dog Holly in slow motion. And then tell me this dog did not give any warning signs and should not have bit.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4655581307021

I'm being very serious. I'd love to know your opinions. Because I used to be on the other side of things. I always came up with a reason or an excuse for his behavior. But even this, I can't fathom ever thinking this was okay to do to a dog.

I've also watched dogs in person become ruined by these methods. I dogsit a Rottweiler from puppyhood (8 weeks old) and watched the owner pull these Cesar Millan dominance crap on him and by 2 years old, he was a broken down dog. He did not trust people, was not trusted around them, and turned somewhat aggressive. But god was he smart. He had so much potential. I taught him so many things without ever using so called 'dominance'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all 'oh everything will be happy dandy if all is positive'. I yell at the dogs sometimes when I'm irritated, I tell them 'no', sometimes I make them do things they don't want to do. I do not believe prong collars are all evil, or invisible fences should be banned. But there is no reason to treat a dog like this poor dog in the video was treated. That is not training. And 95% of the 'training' Cesar does is not. I just feel sad for all the dogs who are suffering because of people trying imitate his methods and failing. Not to mention, the poor dog in the video now lives with Cesar. FWIW, I DO agree that a dog that resource guards such as this should not be living in a home with a child, there were so many better options that could have been looked at.

Forgot to add that I'm sorry he is goingthrough all of this, but his training methods are a direct extension of what is ging on with him psychologically. Why is there a do not try this at home warning on the show when he is showing owners what to do for after he leaves! And I don't believe for one second that he takes on the worst of the worst dogs. It is an excuse to justify constant dominant force.

IMO, if you want to see how to train a large breed dog, look into the villalobos Rescue. And if you want to train a large breed aggressive dog, still look into it but realize these dogs can never be trusted. If you have a dog like this then all you can do is try to keep everyone safe. Forgettraining until people and animals are safe.

Fear is simply not the way to train a dog. Period. I don't see any way that I could ever justify what CM does.

I have a fear biter .. of course he weighs 7 pounds making it easier to deal with; but I would never, ever want him to fear me in any way. He has come a long, long way and it is because he has learned that humans can be trusted. I gave him space...and also gave him some limits until he realized that certain behaviors were more accepted than others. I never tried to be dominant with him...and it was suggested by some people....I used positive reinforcements only. Someone ruined him before I got him...it was not something that was wrong with him that made him like he was or he would still be like he was. He came to me as a feral animal. He was tied up outside and Heaven only knows how he was treated because he was a mess.

I don't see the difference in how you treat any dog...no matter the size....the results will only be positive if you are using positive reinforcement....BUT as someone said you must always be very careful with a dog that has a history of biting and yes, a large dog is a whole different ball game because they can kill. They can and will revert back to that behavior if something triggers it. I don't believe it goes away completely....BUT I do believe it is possible to rehab them.