Using a spray bottle on chewie

[JennaPenny]

Yeah, I've been sick last 2 sessions. I have cellulitis, and I was just too stupid to go to the doctor. It 's taking a very long time to clear up- finally healing.

Husband tells me about how they practiced the leave it command, something she knows how to do- but now being trained differently, which is put the toy/food on the ground saying "leave it...." And then, if she doesn't, spray her. Husband was shocked I was so upset about it. Why would that be a valid method of training? Any one?

[Lovetodream88]

I'm a fan of the spray bottle but not that way because that is not positive training. I would have scooped my dog up and left. That's just ugh. Hope you get better soon.

[yorkietalkjilly]

If I were you I'd look up the Google 'aversives in dog training' search links below to get some expert dog trainer opinions. Most positive-reinforcement trainers tend to think it's an overly harsh way to train any dog, let alone toy dogs, by suddenly spraying a shot of liquid in their eyes and up their noses. Why use that kind of training when positive-reinforcement creates only a win-win for the dog, a tasty carrot vs. an unpleasant stick? Which motive would you prefer if you're the dog?

A nervous or uncertain, timid dog could be adversely affected by aversive training that can startle, intimidate or scare them, causing them to sometimes develop fears and anxieties they never had before. And if the dog feels he's been treated unfairly during training, he can brown off the whole experience and become recalcitrant vs. always eager for positive-reinforcement methods. And sometimes with aversive use, the dog develops a resentment of the one administering them, never fully trusting the trainer as fully again, or associates their use with other things going on at the time they are administered, therefore forming wrong associations.

I've seen dogs traumatized by training aversives use so I just want you to know both sides of how some dogs react to their use. As you don't know how your dog will take the use of aversive training, why take the chance, especially when there are upbeat, positive fun 'leave it' training methods you know any dog will love?

13 Negative Effects of Aversive Dog Training Methods - Daily Dog Discoveries

https://www.google.com/search?q=aver...hrome&ie=UTF-8

P. S. Cellulitis is no joke so follow your doctor's advice and take good, good care of yourself, please.

[JennaPenny]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

If I were you I'd look up the Google 'aversives in dog training' search links below to get some expert dog trainer opinions. Most positive-reinforcement trainers tend to think it's an overly harsh way to train any dog, let alone toy dogs, by suddenly spraying a shot of liquid in their eyes and up their noses. Why use that kind of training when positive-reinforcement creates only a win-win for the dog, a tasty carrot vs. an unpleasant stick? Which motive would you prefer if you're the dog?

A nervous or uncertain, timid dog could be adversely affected by aversive training that can startle, intimidate or scare them, causing them to sometimes develop fears and anxieties they never had before. And if the dog feels he's been treated unfairly during training, he can brown off the whole experience and become recalcitrant vs. always eager for positive-reinforcement methods. And sometimes with aversive use, the dog develops a resentment of the one administering them, never fully trusting the trainer as fully again, or associates their use with other things going on at the time they are administered, therefore forming wrong associations.

I've seen dogs traumatized by training aversives use so I just want you to know both sides of how some dogs react to their use. As you don't know how your dog will take the use of aversive training, why take the chance, especially when there are upbeat, positive fun 'leave it' training methods you know any dog will love?

13 Negative Effects of Aversive Dog Training Methods - Daily Dog Discoveries

https://www.google.com/search?q=aver...hrome&ie=UTF-8

P. S. Cellulitis is no joke so follow your doctor's advice and take good, good care of yourself, please.

Thank you, this is fantastic information!! Seriously, very thoughtful and it explains everything I couldn't put into words.

She IS a very nervous little gal. I am the only one able to handle her in this house. Meaning wipe her face, touch her ears, pick her up, pet her head from the front, all of that. She won't even follow any one but myself into the kitchen, it just scares her too much. Lots more to list but I'm sure you get the general idea. I dropped some chocolate from my husband's trail mix a few hours after this post this morning. I said, leave it, and she jumped-yelped- and ran. Tail was tucked under for a bit, too. So, yes, I'll be talking to our trainer. She's excellent and never steered us wrong before. However, she's wrong with this. And- thank you, for your kind words, too.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

If I were you I'd look up the Google 'aversives in dog training' search links below to get some expert dog trainer opinions. Most positive-reinforcement trainers tend to think it's an overly harsh way to train any dog, let alone toy dogs, by suddenly spraying a shot of liquid in their eyes and up their noses. Why use that kind of training when positive-reinforcement creates only a win-win for the dog, a tasty carrot vs. an unpleasant stick? Which motive would you prefer if you're the dog?

A nervous or uncertain, timid dog could be adversely affected by aversive training that can startle, intimidate or scare them, causing them to sometimes develop fears and anxieties they never had before. And if the dog feels he's been treated unfairly during training, he can brown off the whole experience and become recalcitrant vs. always eager for positive-reinforcement methods. And sometimes with aversive use, the dog develops a resentment of the one administering them, never fully trusting the trainer as fully again, or associates their use with other things going on at the time they are administered, therefore forming wrong associations.

I've seen dogs traumatized by training aversives use so I just want you to know both sides of how some dogs react to their use. As you don't know how your dog will take the use of aversive training, why take the chance, especially when there are upbeat, positive fun 'leave it' training methods you know any dog will love?

13 Negative Effects of Aversive Dog Training Methods - Daily Dog Discoveries

https://www.google.com/search?q=aver...hrome&ie=UTF-8

P. S. Cellulitis is no joke so follow your doctor's advice and take good, good care of yourself, please.

I think the squirt bottle works very well for somethings like with Callie she would grab onto pants legs and it was dangerous and nothing else worked of course I'm not spraying her in the face but one squirt and say no. With two puppies that get overly rough when wrestling it works well to. I prefer the squirt bottle to shaking a can of coins which has been linked to why dogs are scared of loud noises. I don't think baiting a dog and then squirting them when they go for it is a good idea. My trainer used distraction persay to that. We would walk close to the treat and when they went for it we would say leave it and then do come come come in a fun high pitched voice. Obviously with certain dogs certain things wouldn't be ok. Loud noises scare Penny so when her and Joey get rough the water bottle works well without completely terrifying her.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I think the squirt bottle works very well for somethings like with Callie she would grab onto pants legs and it was dangerous and nothing else worked of course I'm not spraying her in the face but one squirt and say no. With two puppies that get overly rough when wrestling it works well to. I prefer the squirt bottle to shaking a can of coins which has been linked to why dogs are scared of loud noises. I don't think baiting a dog and then squirting them when they go for it is a good idea. My trainer used distraction persay to that. We would walk close to the treat and when they went for it we would say leave it and then do come come come in a fun high pitched voice. Obviously with certain dogs certain things wouldn't be ok. Loud noises scare Penny so when her and Joey get rough the water bottle works well without completely terrifying her.

If it works and hasn't intimidated Callie or broken her trust in you for spraying her out of the blue, it's your choice to use it and, besides, it's not like you're spritzing her right in the eyes and nose. Callie's a bigger-sized dog and she likely takes it in stride, as can even toy dogs with no small amount of self-confidence and trusting nature. I just wanted JennaPenny and any other readers that might be interested to know that spraying a dog right in the face for training them not to do something isn't always that helpful if it scares or intimidates them. Tibbe was almost feral when I brought him home, trusted no human, shrieked/screamed, bit at me and ran, hid at the drop of a hat and had to be handled with nothing but positive reinforcement. Everything in the house intimidated him. He was even scared to come to me!

I taught Tibbe to "Leave it" by simply putting a treat on the floor before him, saying "Leave it" when he went for it and putting a flat palm up between him and the treat. It stopped him in his tracks, he looked up at me, I gave him an expectant expression, kept my palm up between him & treat, waited a few seconds and said "GOOOOD leave it!!!!" in the merriest voice possible, instantly sticking a treat in his mouth and scratching the base of his tail, smiling as big as possible!

He thought he'd just won the lottery! After he'd scarf his treat and look up at me so happy with himself, I'd then say "Take it!" and point toward the treat he'd left on the floor and when he took it, I'd say "GOOOOD take it!!!" and treat him for that, with more smiles, scratches and happy times, often lightly happy-clapping my hands for emphasis! He quickly learned that doing each trick was super fun, he got treats(which were just his kibble due to his sensitive tummy back then) and made mommie insanely happy and proud of him so he learned both tricks at once and nothing I did during the teaching of either trick shocked, upset him or made him worry about what I might do next, which was the best way to handle my nervous little guy.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

If it works and hasn't intimidated Callie or broken her trust in you for spraying her out of the blue, it's your choice to use it and, besides, it's not like you're spritzing her right in the eyes and nose. Callie's a bigger-sized dog and she likely takes it in stride, as can even toy dogs with no small amount of self-confidence and trusting nature. I just wanted JennaPenny and any other readers that might be interested to know that spraying a dog right in the face for training them not to do something isn't always that helpful if it scares or intimidates them. Tibbe was almost feral when I brought him home, trusted no human, shrieked/screamed, bit at me and ran, hid at the drop of a hat and had to be handled with nothing but positive reinforcement. Everything in the house intimidated him. He was even scared to come to me!

I taught Tibbe to "Leave it" by simply putting a treat on the floor before him, saying "Leave it" when he went for it and putting a flat palm up between him and the treat. It stopped him in his tracks, he looked up at me, I gave him an expectant expression, kept my palm up between him & treat, waited a few seconds and said "GOOOOD leave it!!!!" in the merriest voice possible, instantly sticking a treat in his mouth and scratching the base of his tail, smiling as big as possible!

He thought he'd just won the lottery! After he'd scarf his treat and look up at me so happy with himself, I'd then say "Take it!" and point toward the treat he'd left on the floor and when he took it, I'd say "GOOOOD take it!!!" and treat him for that, with more smiles, scratches and happy times, often lightly happy-clapping my hands for emphasis! He quickly learned that doing each trick was super fun, he got treats(which were just his kibble due to his sensitive tummy back then) and made mommie insanely happy and proud of him so he learned both tricks at once and nothing I did during the teaching of either trick shocked, upset him or made him worry about what I might do next, which was the best way to handle my nervous little guy.

Yeah I don't think one method works for all dogs some learn one way and some learn the other way. I haven't used it on Callie since she was a pup but I use it on the younger two when their wrestling gets out of hand. I go for like the hip/back end area when I spray. It's funny they all learn differently. Joey likes training but you have to make it fun or he gets bored. He wants lots of verbal praise and rubs sometimes more then a treat. My trainer also suggested when working on something hard or not completely gotten yet always end with something they know of do well to end it off positive. This was Joey doing a big leave it at his training place. Sorry I had to share.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Yeah I don't think one method works for all dogs some learn one way and some learn the other way. I haven't used it on Callie since she was a pup but I use it on the younger two when their wrestling gets out of hand. I go for like the hip/back end area when I spray. It's funny they all learn differently. Joey likes training but you have to make it fun or he gets bored. He wants lots of verbal praise and rubs sometimes more then a treat. My trainer also suggested when working on something hard or not completely gotten yet always end with something they know of do well to end it off positive. This was Joey doing a big leave it at his training place. Sorry I had to share.

I'm so glad Callie wasn't intimidated by the spraying and now obeys you, whereas some dogs would psychologically suffer trust issues if they thought you were so unhappy with them you did something sudden and unexpected they disliked during their training. It's just a fact with some dogs so that's why positive-rewards training was begun, I'm certain. Thankfully, your dogs don't have any of those issues!

Just for the sake of readers who want to read more about it, positive-reward training, when done with enthusiasm and fun, can essentially create a dog that is reflexively programmed to obey you every time without thought and sees obeying you as a big ,big win vs. getting sent a no-nonsense message he's misbehaving, usually a downer for many dogs. "Leave it" positive-reward training worked so well for Tibbe. When he would nip at my socks, show an unhealthy interest in an electric plug, went for something I dropped or even started to do something I didn't want him to do, I'd tell him, and occas. yell it, "Leave it!" or "Stop" in an upbeat voice and he couldn't back off fast enough in hopes of getting his reward and my praises, the occasional full party-time celebration. He got them. I'd be praising him mightily on our way to the treat box, him dancing expectantly along at my feet, so pleased with himself. Only once has he gone for a bit of meat I dropped but couldn't get "Leave it!" out B4 he was on it.

A month ago, he was on the front porch with me after dark and a stray cat flew from nowhere across the porch, Tibbe suddenly on its heels. I yelled out "Stop! Leave it!" and, you know what, he DID!!!! (That's the third time he's stopped chasing the cat at my request.) And he turned, came running to me for our party. Don't think we didn't celebrate THAT special moment with happy dances, me repeating 'What a BIG win - goooood boy!' praises, serial treats and back scratching, hugs. See what I mean - positive-reward training creates times of expectation of fun celebration and rewards in your dog vs. aversive punishment with your dog backing away from a spray feeling chastised/guilty/intimidated or you relying on using a tool that might not be available when you most need it?

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Yeah I don't think one method works for all dogs some learn one way and some learn the other way. I haven't used it on Callie since she was a pup but I use it on the younger two when their wrestling gets out of hand. I go for like the hip/back end area when I spray. It's funny they all learn differently. Joey likes training but you have to make it fun or he gets bored. He wants lots of verbal praise and rubs sometimes more then a treat. My trainer also suggested when working on something hard or not completely gotten yet always end with something they know of do well to end it off positive. This was Joey doing a big leave it at his training place. Sorry I had to share.

What a darling picture!!!!!!! And talk about a BIG LEAVE - that's a doozy! Soooo cute. Wonder how many dogs are as well-behaved as yours, Taylor? Not so many or we wouldn't have shelters crammed with them. And all it takes is gaining your dog's trust and some good times training. Bravo!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

What a darling picture!!!!!!! And talk about a BIG LEAVE - that's a doozy! Soooo cute. Wonder how many dogs are as well-behaved as yours, Taylor? Not so many or we wouldn't have shelters crammed with them. And all it takes is gaining your dog's trust and some good times training. Bravo!

It takes a lot of time and I was soooo worried he wouldn't do it lol

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

It takes a lot of time and I was soooo worried he wouldn't do it lol

I'd trust your ability to get any dog to do anything you wanted. You've got good dog skills! Hope that photo makes the YT 2018 Calendar!!!!

[JennaPenny]

Not cutting in on purpose- Jilly, I worked with the leave it command and then hoover last night. she loved every second of it, so I'm confident that she'll be good to go. Of course, duck jerky helps. . I was so upset, and thanks for those links, because I Fully agree, because I've always done positive reinforcement. I am one of those women, I love video games. I love Bitten and Teen wolf. I play a game called Red Dead Redemption from time to time on the console. Each time bitten, or teen wolf came on, she used to bark like crazy. Same with Red dead. Wolves, bark like crazy. She doesn't any more, and it only took two days. I used her favorite treats- suuupppper expensive Honest kitchen jerky treats to do this.

When people or that dog passes by the window, she now does the end of the puppy howl bark- where she sounds like she's back talking with this little drawn out growl. Positive reinforcement I've always been all for. Her potty training was long and drawn out, because the trainer wanted us to stop her mid stream or mid poo, and she wouldn't poop OR pee for hours after that happened- even when she was obviously going, so again, prime example of how praise and treats worked better, even if it was slower. So, thanks!!!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by JennaPenny

Not cutting in on purpose- Jilly, I worked with the leave it command and then hoover last night. she loved every second of it, so I'm confident that she'll be good to go. Of course, duck jerky helps. . I was so upset, and thanks for those links, because I Fully agree, because I've always done positive reinforcement. I am one of those women, I love video games. I love Bitten and Teen wolf. I play a game called Red Dead Redemption from time to time on the console. Each time bitten, or teen wolf came on, she used to bark like crazy. Same with Red dead. Wolves, bark like crazy. She doesn't any more, and it only took two days. I used her favorite treats- suuupppper expensive Honest kitchen jerky treats to do this.

When people or that dog passes by the window, she now does the end of the puppy howl bark- where she sounds like she's back talking with this little drawn out growl. Positive reinforcement I've always been all for. Her potty training was long and drawn out, because the trainer wanted us to stop her mid stream or mid poo, and she wouldn't poop OR pee for hours after that happened- even when she was obviously going, so again, prime example of how praise and treats worked better, even if it was slower. So, thanks!!!

Telling them no when you catch them going potty in the house isn't wrong or negative training its just giving a correction otherwise they don't know its bad to go in the house. I have done that with all of the dogs I have had and the ones I grew up with. Then we would take them outside and if they had more they would go and we would praise sometimes they didn't get busted until they were finished so they didn't have to go again. Lots of people think they can yell at the dog later when they find the accident but the dog doesn't remember it then. I'm in a bit of a potty training nightmare with my youngest now. The old owners never trained her at all and I didn't get her until 8 months so its going a lot slower then my other two that I got as young puppies and we trained by 8 months. Its like you thing everything is going great for a few days then she pees and poos on the floor. My mom says its because my youngest will always be the problem child lol. I have had to cut three different collars off of her because she got them stuck in her mouth some how. She wants to eat dirt and rocks!

[JennaPenny]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

Telling them no when you catch them going potty in the house isn't wrong or negative training its just giving a correction otherwise they don't know its bad to go in the house. I have done that with all of the dogs I have had and the ones I grew up with. Then we would take them outside and if they had more they would go and we would praise sometimes they didn't get busted until they were finished so they didn't have to go again. Lots of people think they can yell at the dog later when they find the accident but the dog doesn't remember it then. I'm in a bit of a potty training nightmare with my youngest now. The old owners never trained her at all and I didn't get her until 8 months so its going a lot slower then my other two that I got as young puppies and we trained by 8 months. Its like you thing everything is going great for a few days then she pees and poos on the floor. My mom says its because my youngest will always be the problem child lol. I have had to cut three different collars off of her because she got them stuck in her mouth some how. She wants to eat dirt and rocks!

I won't yell at her or say anything after myself. I know she can't remember. When we were stopping her going, she literally wouldn't go for a long time. I upped her praises, to the point where it was clapping, fanfare, and treats. She hasn't had any accidents on the carpet in a month. Not urine. Poop, however, is a different story. I think, though, that she doesn't like peeing and pooping on the same areas. She'll do it maybe 75% of the time. My idea to put a new pad on the opposite side is working- so far, lol. knocking on wood.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by JennaPenny

Not cutting in on purpose- Jilly, I worked with the leave it command and then hoover last night. she loved every second of it, so I'm confident that she'll be good to go. Of course, duck jerky helps. . I was so upset, and thanks for those links, because I Fully agree, because I've always done positive reinforcement. I am one of those women, I love video games. I love Bitten and Teen wolf. I play a game called Red Dead Redemption from time to time on the console. Each time bitten, or teen wolf came on, she used to bark like crazy. Same with Red dead. Wolves, bark like crazy. She doesn't any more, and it only took two days. I used her favorite treats- suuupppper expensive Honest kitchen jerky treats to do this.

When people or that dog passes by the window, she now does the end of the puppy howl bark- where she sounds like she's back talking with this little drawn out growl. Positive reinforcement I've always been all for. Her potty training was long and drawn out, because the trainer wanted us to stop her mid stream or mid poo, and she wouldn't poop OR pee for hours after that happened- even when she was obviously going, so again, prime example of how praise and treats worked better, even if it was slower. So, thanks!!!

I'm so pleased that she's training well. If made fun and the dog sees obeying as super-rewarding - a big win-win, they quickly grow to love their training sessions, the intense interaction with you and before long, she'll likely push you to work her. Dogs with trainers using positive-reward techniques are extremely eager and happy to work, find it very fulfilling.

Personally, I don't mind my dog showing reasonable instincts of greeting and territorial protection messages, barking and growling at passersby, whatever the species, to say, "Hey, hi, there, I'm here! By the way, you're on my patch here, just so you know". It's natural for dogs to love to communicate with others and their bark and growl are the only way they usually can do so. I usually indulge a 1 - 2 minute initial communication session.

As dogs get older and if well-trained, well-behaved, usually don't bark over a maximum of 60 - 120 seconds at a time unless there is a real problem in their minds, such as utility workmen setting up on the street and beginning to dig it up! Even then a well-behaved pet has learned our boundaries for barking, how to control himself and won't go nuts barking for minutes at a time; but still may bark or growl from time to time if people or critters linger within his line of sight or scent(his territory), just reinforcing his initial message of greeting and territorial notice. Eventually the savvy dog realizes the ones that concerned him have not actually approached his home or tried to enter it, relaxes and finds other things to do, checking back from time to time.

Frankly, I kinda like passersby to know I've got a very alert little watchdog in my home and no approaching it day or night will go unnoticed, so I gladly tolerate most territorial barking Tibbe finds necessary! I've come to trust his instincts. He learned the 'bark/speak' & 'quiet' commands quickly but I rarely have to use 'quiet' anymore unless the garbage collection truck or stray cats linger nearby longer than he'd like !