Followup on bark collar
 

Okay, I finally got the bark collar for Ruger. It's a Petsafe PBC-302, small, light, and easy for Ruger to carry around. I must admit that before putting it on Ruger I tried it on myself but could not get it go off.

After adjusting it for size I put it on Ruger without the battery and he didn't seem to mind it at all. I then went to my girlfriend's and put the collar on him but he didn't bark. Maybe he's smarter than I thought. After awhile, however, he did bark a couple of times and the next sound I heard was Ruger letting out a yelp like I stepped on his tail or something. The barking immediately stopped, and he didn't seem bothered, more perplexed as to what had happened and he snuggled up against me. I just talked to him softly and petted him until he jumped off. He did it again about an hour later and the same thing happened. No more barking that day, which was very unusual.

I'm pretty pleased with the product so far and Ruger seems just fine. I would say the only downside to the collar is it uses special batteries, but they can be purchased at Amazon pretty cheap.

I must tell you again that Ruger is 10 lbs, and most of these devices are not recommended for dogs under 8 lbs. They do offer a resister to reduce the shock, but right now I'm just going to leave it alone.

Anyway, thanks for the help and advice.

I got the vibrating collar on petco's website for $24.99. You can set it to either vibrate or sonic sound. No shock. Works GREAT! (I couldn't shock my girl). Now all I have to say is 'want your collar' if she's barking and she stops.

Then I reward her. She is learning.

Good idea. I didn't see any vibrating collars at Petco's site, and when I was looking I pretty much went by customer reviews. Everything but the shock collars got poor reviews, and we tried an untrasonic device to no avail. I'm gonna check out those vibrating collars next trip to Petco.

I am against any type of shock device. I met a guy in the park who had one on each of his yorkies. They barked and squealed, barked and squealed, ad nauseum. I hate hearing a dog cry out like that, and clearly the collar was not modifying their behavior. This guy expected the collar to magically make his dogs behave, rather than actually working with them and teaching them what he wanted.

OP, did you try other methods, like pennies in a can, or teaching "Quiet"?

I haven't seen a vibrating collar, but that sounds more humane.

I agree with you, but after exhausting everything, cans, coins, teaching quiet, etc, the collar is all that was left. As for you guy in the park he was not using the collar correctly. This behavior is mentioned in the instructions and is not good.

BTW, teaching quiet is not as easy as teaching sit. It doesn't work for all dogs, although Ceasar Milan would make you think that just going SSSSSSS will solve everything.

I don't like the idea of a shock collar either, but if I thought it was harming Ruger in any way I would toss it. I only put it on him in situations where I can't have him barking. Dogs bark when they play, so the instructions said not to put the collar on the dog when you take him to the park, or with another collar or harness as that can trigger the shock collar.

Another problem is when you have to leave the dog alone for short periods. Without you being there when he barks, the collar is the only thing that works, reinforcing quiet instantly. But, before you can leave the dog alone with the collar you must make sure the dog is not cycling the collar, like the dog in the park.

I did not use the collar as a first resort, and I would never recommend using one of these collars as a first resort.

Gotcha. Thanks for explaining. :)

I still don't like the idea of it, but it sounds like you have given it a lot of thought.

I took Ruger back to my girlfriend's place tonight, and when I got there I put the collar on him. Not one peep out of the little guy, and he was quiet and affectionate all evening. Earlier that day I took him for two walks, where he barked quite a bit, and we took both dogs out for a walk and he also barked a lot then. Miles, my girlfriend's dog, also barked a lot at the TV and Ruger usually joins in. Not this time.

So far so good, and he may have already put two and two together with the collar and not barking. He didn't seem happy when I put the collar in my pocket when we left for my girlfriends. :eek:

The instructions said only to use the collar when you don't want him to bark, and that's what I'm doing. He's a good little watchdog and I don't want to kill that. :D

I've used the citronella collar on Ringo and it seems to work. It sprays a lemon scent right under their nose every time they bark. Lucy is not a nuisance barker so I don' thave to worry about her so much.

He only has it on of an evening and while outside ~ because I was afraid I was going to get kicked out of the neighborhood!

He figured it out right away. Collar on - no bark. Collar off - BARK BARK BARK!!

Glad I found this! We're have A LOT of training going on with Tikka right now. Crate training, transitional potty training, stopping her excessives whines, etc. I was thinking of using a bark collar on her while she's on her yard line because she barks at birds, people, trash going down the steet etc and the people in other apartments have yelled at her a few times lol. Also she barks whenever we have to leave the house... like grocery shopping and out to dinner, she yelps in her kennel the whole time... again our neighboring apt suites aren't impressed. So I was just looking into those!

If any of you guys have old collars that didn't work for you, I would be interesting in buying them off you! I can't get any type of bark collar up her since there's no pet store! The only thing we have is a smaller WalMart and a Canadian Tire... their bark collars are for big dogs only and cheap brands that'd I'd be too scared to try.

I got mine online at Petco. They had a much bigger assortment, and I was told I could return it directly to the store, but the way it was packed I don't see how they would take it back after I opened it.

Keep in mind you have to get something physically small enough for a Yorkie as some of these collars are pretty big and heavy. Also, make sure you get one that is balanced. Some of the bigger collars have things hanging off the sides and will rotate out of position.

A yelp means the dog is in pain...the shock collars are only meant to re-direct the dogs attention to you so you can give it a command (quiet). You are using the collar incorrectly and hurting your dog, despite how well written that manual is.
I understand the reasoning behind bark collars, but if he's only wearing it at your gfs house where she has a dog that is barking...um...what's the problem?
Vibrating collars don't sound like a good idea for smaller dogs prone to tracheal problems. None of these collars sound like a good idea for small dogs, I don't like leaving collars on Rizzo at all if I'm not home, if he crawls under something and gets caught...well I'd be devastated to loose him to such a preventable accident.
Is there a way to lower the setting so it doesn't hurt your pup?
Remember, our furry friends are really, really great actors when it comes to hiding pain.

Yeah I've been reading a lot of post about this subject too, if he's yelping it's probably set too high. Most collars come with the option to set it high, medium, low or something similar... i'd check that too. Although if it worked the first time I guess no point now that he's not barking anymore, but just incase!

I'm more interested in the Cintronella or sonic ones. Mainly just because Tikka thinks she's dying when she's in her kennel, she usually quiets down and falls asleep but that's after about 20 minutes of yelping and barking. So if she associates barking in her kennel with an unpleasant smell or sound I'm hoping that works. I always give her little pieces of chicken to reward her when she's been quiet for 5 min. or so. :D it's working... slowly.

I also don't leave my collars on, I put Tikka in a harness when she's on her yard line so there's no pressure on her throat :D And pooter never wears his collar unless we're on a walk... it mattes his poofy hair! and his neck is much smaller than tikkas.

Have you looked into DAP...I use feliway for my cat who gets stressed and starts peeing and meowing when he's left alone. It has actually calmed both of them down though. I think they make some specifically for dogs though, and you can get a plug in one and put it next to her crate or expen to help calm her when she's left alone. It works for some, but not everyone. Just an idea...

What does DAP stand for? And where could I find that at? [it would have to be online as the nearest full size city is a 5 hour drive, the closest midsize city is still 2.5 hours lol]

I seriously doubt DAP would work. When he gets into it he really gets to barking. I am going to order a resistor that lowers the voltage on the collar and see how that goes, but as I've said in this thread, nothing other than the collar has worked with him.

To answer more questions:

1. I think DAP stands for Dog Appeasing Pherimones. It's used with a defuser and is supposed to calm dogs down. Dogs will bark for all kinds of reasons, not because they are stressed. When Ruger gets stressed he runs under the bed. When the collar goes off he runs to me.

2. It one thing to have one dog barking at the TV. When they both get into it it's unbearable, and they feed off each other.

3. And now I'm getting flack from people who not only think I'm hurting my dog, but that he's going to strangle himself on the collar, or any collar. Look I appreciate all comments, and I understand your concerns, but I'm not the dog whisperer and I have to compromise. The collar works. Going "Ssssssssst" doesn't do a damn thing. Unless you think the collar is punishment, I've never punished this dog for anything, and only rewarded him for good behavior. If I rewarded him for being quiet he'd be the fattest Yorkie on the planet. He doesn't know the word "Quiet," and I doubt most of your dogs do. Yeah, sometimes it works for a second, but once he gets going he won't stop. And the vast majority of the day he's silent.

You are making your dog YELP! That means the dog is in pain. Pain should not be necessary to achieve desired results.

The citronella collar worked for Ringo. It IS too big and heavy for Lucy though. I think it's out of lemon scent - but it doesn't matter. As soon as I put it on Ringo; he will quit barking.

We only use it at night when he wants to go out and bark all evening.

I just got off the phone with Petsafe. They gave me instructions for reducing the "charge" that Ruger gets. I placed a resistor on the collar and we'll see what happens. Now I'm looking for results without the "yelp." I'll report back. They told me I could add up to 3 resistors. :aimeeyork

FYI, I put the resistor on the collar and Ruger made some kind of noise, but it didn't sound like pain -- no yelping. He barked a few times and stopped and now he's curled up next to me very quiet. The next test will be when I bring him over my girlfriend's later. If it works then I think we're set.

With Ruger sometimes it's hard to tell what's coming out of his mouth, as he does tend to "sing" and talk a lot. No questioning a YELP however.

FYI, the citronella collars are very unpleasant for dogs as well. It doesn't send out a gentle waft of lemony fresh scent. It sprays a very strong, unpleasant odor directly into the dog's nose.

I want to make sure everyone here has tried pennies in a can before resorting to collars. A squirt of water to the face can also help.

For two dogs barking, that seems like it would be simple enough to train, since it's a very specific, repeatable situation. If they start barking, immediately put them in time out for a minute. They'll figure it out.

Thor does know Quiet, but the difficulty I have is that it's a behavior chain: Thor barks, then he Quiets, then he gets a treat.

There are lots of small, low calorie treats to use if you are concerned about his weight.

I tried shaking pennies in a can, and Tikka thought I wanted to play. lol... she went over to the box that I got the can from and knocked it over and started pouncing on pop cans like a cat :P

Tikka has been great in her kennel the past couple days, I've just been letting her bark it out until she goes quiet and understands she's not gonna get hurt in there lol

I don't agree with shock collars either. I'm sorry, I just think that there are other things that you can do and with the right training and guidance, there is not need to hurt your dog this way. Would you shock a baby for crying when they have a wet diaper. I just think it's mean. One of the biggest mistakes we make is to say "no barking" every time our dog barks and then they think no barking means bark. You need to teach him bark and quiet and be consistent with your training. It just seems like so many dog owners and parents for that matter want to be lazy with things. Yes it takes work, maybe lots of work but I think your relationship with your pup could be so much better if you worked on that communication with him instead of making him fearful about his world by getting a shock everytime he barks. Come on... think about it. In my office we have a lot of metal file cabinets so I frequently get a shock when I go to open one. I hate that, I even touch other things now to avoid that tiny bit of shock from static electricity, I can't imagine doing it to any of my dogs on purpose.

I also don't agree with applying electrical shock to train a dog. Not just from a pain standpoint, but from a cardiology standpoint. The heart is basically a pump powered by an electrical impulse orginating in what's called the "SA node". This impulse causes the heart to contract or beat. Sometimes there are electrical conductivity problems in a heart that are not easily detectable and when you apply an electrical stimulus to the body from an outside source, it can aggravate an electrical conductivity problem of the heart - thus causing irregular heart rhythms. I realize it is not a large electrical stimulus; however, repeated electrical stimuli over time I would by wary of.

Do you agree with spanking a child though? I know I learned my lesson when I got spanked lol. It wasn't abuse, it just taught me a lesson. Although I'd rather use a scent collar vs. shock.

as a parent of 2 boys, I can't say that I thought spanking was particularly effective either. Maybe in some instances but not for the most part. I just think there are other ways to be more effective. Heck, when I punish my kids they say "why can't you just spank me?"

I swear I don't know how that collar even works. It's directly under Ringo's chin and neck - kind of above his regular collar. (and Ringo had a long chin) so how the scent even gets to his nose is beyond me. It appears that it would just do directly into his neck - under his chin.

My son, genius that he is, has put the collar around himself several times and tried to bark and he can never make the lemon scent come out.

So, there ain't no way this lemon scent is going directly up Ringo's nostrils; maybe I'd need a way more expensive collar for that to happen.

I'm going with gentle wafe of lemony scent (smells yummy to me) ~ IF that even happens.

I think maybe at first it must have worked - because I could smell lemon around Ringo's neck. But now, it's just the simple fact of putting the collar on; pretty sure the lemon part is broke.

Keeping in mind that Ringo is much larger, and tougher than Luce; AND MUCH MORE STUBBORN - I'd recommend it for a really problem barker.

Pennies in a can? Ha! Ringo scoffs at that. :D

They do scare Lucy.

My dad has considered a citronella collar for their JRT, Lilly. I must admit -- as patient as I am with dogs and very positive trainer. She is impossible. Like, nothing works for her. She could care less. When she is in a barking fit, you be kicking her and she probably wouldn't care. We've done coins in a can, tried the treat method, squirt her with water (she actually loves it and tries to drink it... she's like 'thanks! you gave me some water! now back to barking!)

So I can appreciate how hard it is to work with such a difficult dog and having to resort so such methods. It's not something I like and I think there are better methods... like, my dad and stepmom NEVER took the time to train Lilly from the get-go so I am sure a lot of it is her being stuck in her ways now that she has gotten away with it for so long. She doesn't really have a bond with anyone in particular in the house, she's kind of just a family dog who has never ever been trained properly.

Why not just use a bark silencer? I dont get how anyone could put a shock collar around their necks. This is so cruel. Try this instead.

http://www.ultimatebarkcontrol.com/ds_pro.htm

Oh, that part just cracked me up! It IS Ringo all the way. Westies are a very stubborn breed I think. My Ringo is quite the HANDFUL. Nothing at all like Lucy.

Another person tells me their Westie is soo laid back and hates to be outside and I just can't believe it.

Ringo would seriously live outside if we put a doghouse out there; he just likes it. And he would be barking the whole, entire time!

Thanks for making me smile this morning. We still love Ringo despite all his really bad habits :)

I was saying the DAP for putting next to the kennel to assist in calming when they are put in for the night. It works for some dogs but not all. It won't stop them from barking all together, but you'll probably get a lot less whining at night.

For barking, I just put Rizzo in a time-out if he started up in the house. It worked wonders, now he just "low growls" if he thinks he sees/hears something, and barks when we're playing or if something jumps out at him. Outside...we're still working on. He barks and barks and barks at people he's met 1,000+ times, he doesn't seem to understand that I realize they're in the yard and that him barking from 10 feet away isn't going to change it. He is great when inside, but when he's outside he is a little beast! Trying to figure that one out, how to get that to stop, but I won't resort to a shock collar. I haven't tried pennies in a can yet, but I'm not sure how affective it'll be outdoors. Seriously considering a water gun now that its nice and warm out....