At the end of my rope....Need advice!! (crate training)
 

Hi...I am new to the forum and SO thankful I've found it. I have a male yorkie that I've had since he was 12 weeks old. He was neutered at 4 months and I have been crate training him since I got him. Since I've had him, he's ALWAYS had issues going potty in his crate. Ever since day 1. I thought he'd get the hang of it as he got older since most dogs don't want to go where they sit, but he hasn't. For his crate... It's a small crate....definitely not too big. He's only 5 lbs and it's the smallest crate I can find. He doesn't get food or water in the crate and is always pottied right before he goes into it. It's driving me insane...It's been 4 years of accidents in the crate. I am TIRED of bathing a dog and cleaning crates all the time. I'm a registered veterinary technician, so he's been checked from top to bottom and there are no medical issues causing it. I've even taken him to work with me and put him in a small cage in the kennel and let him out during the day, and he'll STILL pee in his cage, even with me letting him out every hour.:mad: Sometimes he will go for a few days or even almost a week with no accidents, but most of the time it's a weekly, if not daily issue. Now, for the interesting part...If we're home and he's out in the house, he'll go to the door and hop around when he has to go out. And he will sleep in our bed all night without getting out of it, so as long as he's not in his crate at night, he's ok. If he's in his crate at night, it's always hit or miss if I"ll wake up to a mess. He is "housetrained", meaning that when he's out of his crate when we're home, he'll always go to the door to be let out. I am thankful for that, but it's an issue when we have to leave the house and have to crate him...even if I run to the store for a few minutes, he'll still pee/poop in his crate. I've tried just leaving him out in the house when I leave, but he'll have accidents in the house, too, if nobody is there to let him out. I just found the name of a really good dog trainer in the area I am going to contact as well, but if anyone has any advice on what I can do, PLEASE help. I have done everything that I know to do...I have no clue how to keep him from peeing in his crate in short of sitting in front of it 24/7 to correct him, which I can't do. I tried the petite Pet a Potty in his crate, and he just slept on it and peed in the crate.:rolleyes: I thought about trying pee pads tucked inside a dog litter box in a large dog crate with a dog bed for him to lay on....any other ideas? Any tips on pad training an older dog? He's a fantastic dog otherwise...so sweet, funny and is great with our daughter, but this issue is really starting to get to me. He's part of the family and I can't get rid of him but I NEED to find some kind of solution for him during the day because I cannot clean stuff every day anymore...I am exhausted...I'd much rather have a clean dog and just have to throw away a pee pad every day than deal with this mess....any suggestions? (sorry sooo long!)

Have you tried setting him up in an ex-pen with a pee pad or in the bathroom with a pee pad?

Is he a leg lifter or does he squat when he pees?

I just looked up the dimensions of the petite petapotty and it says its 24x36 inches. So if that fits in his crate and he still has room to pee in the crate and sleep on the petapotty i'd say his crate is too big. My Morgan is just about 5lbs as well and she's 4.5 years old. Her crate is 24x18 inches i believe and if she were so inclined she has plenty of room to sleep on one side and potty on the other. By looking at these crates 1500 Series Single Door iCrate, Midwest 1500 Series iCrates i'd get the 12x18 one and see how he does in that. If he still manages to potty on one end and sleep on the other then i'd use the divider and make it even smaller until you get to a point where he can't. Then you start monitoring how he does in it. If he's able to hold it for a few weeks in that amount of space then you very slowly start to increase the size of his space again. If he messes in it after you made it bigger then make it smaller again and wait a little longer before sizing up again.

Also, just curious, did he come from a pet store where he was used to pottying in his crate?

Thanks for the reply... I think you may have misunderstood...sorry for being confusing...He is currently in a crate that small...He actually has an x-small wire crate, and also one of the x-small plastic petmate vari kennels as well. I actually only tried him in a Large dog crate with a pet a potty hoping that he would go on the pet a potty instead of peeing/pooping all over himself... I couldn't get him to stay on it to potty though....maybe if I tried something with sides? I was hoping that if he had a place to go in his crate, that would solve my problem...but he ended up sleeping on the pet a potty and going in the crate...After I saw that didn't work, I switched him back to his x-small crate,which he's had since I've had him. He has just enough room to stand up, turn around and lay down, but nothing else so, I can't go any smaller...it's already the smallest size I can get! lol he will actually go potty and then just sit in it. But if he's at home, he'll go to the door to go outside. It's so frustrating! I guess I'm just thankful it's not reversed. I got him from a breeder in Indiana, so he wasn't a pet store dog...to my knowledge he was left in his crate as the breeder seemed pretty reputable. Should I try a dog litter box with pee pads in a large crate and also put a bed in there, too and see if that makes a difference? I am hoping that maybe if I can contain him in a large crate, but give him somewhere to go, i'll just be changing a pad out every day instead of washing a dog and cleaning a crate...Do you think I could easily train him to that? Thanks for the help!

Thanks for clearing up the crate size.

What is in the crate with him currently? blankets, toys, a bed, newspaper, etc?

Does he totally not care if he is covered in his own pee and poop?


I would try getting an ex-pen like this Black Exercise Pens- With Walk-Thru Door and putting a bed, the petapotty, a pee pad, some toys, and a water bottle in it. See if he'll choose either the petapotty or pee pad to potty on instead of just going anywhere.

ETA: Personally I do not like the idea of getting a big crate and putting a pee pad in there. A crate is suppose to be den like and dogs do not (should not) potty in their den.

I am in the same situation with my yorkie, Paisley. We've had him for a week and a half and he's a little over 8 weeks old. He goes crazy when we put him in his kennel, which is pretty small, and he cries/hollers off and on all night. He gets so upset he gets diarrhea every time and gets it all over himself and the kennel. I've put blankets and towels in with him (he's ruined them all) and puppy pads (which he shredded). He scratches and bites at the wire door and jostles the crate around so hard that it moves across the floor, and he only ways a little more than a pound. I'm afraid he's going to hurt himself. He has no problem pooing and peeing in there right where he sleeps. I think it is really traumatizing him and figured after a week and a half he would be at least a little better but he's not. Maybe some dogs just can't handle the crate? I don't think putting the crate in the same room with me at night will help, it will only make me sleep deprived for work the next day. I've read of the Snuggle Puppy but I'm pretty sure he'll just poo and pee all over it. I'm thinking of letting him sleep with me at night but he's not house broken so I don't want accidents in my bed either. I'm at a loss. Am I giving up too soon? It's so cold right now, I can't keep scrubbing him down every day and washing out the crate... any thoughts?

I saw this on its me or the dog. Get an xpen or gate him in an area and line it with pee pads. Then each day remove a pad untill there is only one and your dog is using it. I know pad training is new bujt it doesnt seem your dog is receptive to outdoor training. I have one like that also. Good luck

There is nothing in his crate with him now. I used to keep a little bed and a few toys, but I got tired of cleaning them all the time and some of the things ended up ruined...He doesn't seem to care that he's sitting in his own pee/poop...he'll still have accidents in the crate even with no extra room. I've done tons of medical test to rule out any issues and everything has come back fine...I just don't get it. I did try the playpen idea, but he can climb out of it...and over baby gates, which is why I got the bigger crate. I could maybe try doing this in a bathroom or something as opposed to a crate...I just don't get why he does this...I'm so glad that he goes to the door to go out when he's in the house...but I know he's capable of holding it in his crate...he will go a few days sometimes with no accidents.:confused: I picked up a dog litter box and pee pads on my lunch break today...maybe I can work with him tonight and take him to work with me tomorrow and work on training him to the pads this week and then try him in the bathroom during the day with a bed and some toys. I am worried that I won't be able to find a solution...I just can't keep doing what we're doing anymore...Thanks for the help!

chachi...that's the kicker...if he's out in the house when we're home, he ALWAYS goes to the door to be let out to potty...ALWAYS. He's housebroken...doesn't have accidents in the house, but just has accidents in his crate...

OH I see then I would get rid of the crate and try an xpen. I think hes associating going to the bathroom with the crate

I had this problem with my first yorkie. I made sure there is only enough room to stand up and turn around. I had a very small crate and I still had to section it off with a plastic container. More importantly, when accidents happen thoroughly clean crate with a urine cleaner. Take crate apart if you have to...any scent of pee they will continue to go to spot. Hope this helps.

the metal ex-pens have tops that can attach to them so they can't climb out. Exercise Pens and Top accessories, Midwest Exercise pen, Midwest Accessories

or if you used a human play pen you can turn it upside down so they would be on the floor and the play pen bottom would be the "roof".

Good luck with training him. I hope something works for him.

I've had my yorkie for about 5 months now. When I first brought him home, when we would leave we I would put him in a small crate. EVERY TIME I would leave the house, no matter how long it was when I came home there was always poop and pee all over it. He seemed to smear the pop all over the place and even on the sides of the crate. I got soo tired and fed up with cleaning the darn crate. I finally told my husband I was going to buy him a playpen. He insisted that it wouldnt work because it was a bigger area and that would make room for more messes and he would tear through the sides and tear the mesh sides. Well I decided I would buy it anyways because I figured he'd like to have more room to play with his toys anyways. It was a miracle!!! The playpen worked. I bought the kind with the mesh zip top, when I leave him I have to zip the top because he can jump out of it. The bottom has velcro so if there is a mess then you just un-velcro it and hose it off if it's bad, so much easier than those darn crates i've found. Well he doesnt pee or poop in it at all. The only thing I could think of is he hated such a small area. I dont know but it worked for me. Plus he loves the playpen and even plays with all his toys in it even when we are all home he will go in there by himself and jump around :) I hope you find a solution because I know how tired of this I got! Hope this helps:confused:

Your pup more than likely has separation anxiety. Those pups who suffer from it associate their crate with you leaving which in turn causes them to poop and pee due to the anxiety. My Snickers went through this and is recovering from his 2nd bout of it. I teach and am home in the summers, and Snick started peeing in the house again after I went back to work in Sept.

You will have to try a few different things to figure out what will work for your dog. Your pup seems to really hate his crate, so you have to confine him in something that does not seem to be crate like to him. We ended up using a Graco PackNPlay meant for human babies and Snickers loves it!! We also keep it next to a window so while he is confined, the window provides large spatial views. The PackNPlay has mesh sides, nothing metal or crate like, the entire top is open, again not confining. We put Snicks fav plush blanket and toys and made it cozy and now he wants to go in even when we are home, he loves it so much!!

I hope this helps for some possible insight to your ongoing problem. I remember my husband telling me he can no longer clean up Snicks crate. I knew we had to fix it, and we did!!

Good luck!!!
Snick & Viv

I have the exact same problem with my 2 year old Yorkie. I know he has serious separation anxiety and absolutely hates his crate. I've had to keep him in it while I'm at work because he will go on the floor if no one is home. When we are home he sits in front of us and huffs to let us know he needs to be taken out. Everyday when I come home he has either peed or pooped or both in his crate. Another issue I have is that he barks constantly while he's in there. When have a Jack Russell that's older and is allowed to roam free during the day. I know this is another reason for Teddy's behavior issues in the crate.

He's a wonderful dog otherwise but I'm at a loss as to what to do to help him either like his crate or not go to the bathroom while we are gone. I've gotten complaints from neighbors in our complex about his barking but I can't leave him out on his own all day because I know I'll come home to a serious mess. The playpen is a good idea. Perhaps I'll try that and see if it works. I believe at this point he believes his crate is a bad thing. The breeder I brought him from never used them and even though I went through all the steps to properly crate train him he has never learned to like it. I have to force him in there every morning, often times chasing him down or having to pull him out from under our kitchen table.:(

I personally would not crate. I would block off an area in the kitchen or put up an ex-pen with papers or pee pads in one area for him to use. He seems to know what he is supposed to do. I would ignore the bad and only praise the good. He apparently does not like the crate, so I would not put him in it.
Mine is quite spoiled, but I have had very little trouble with him as far as house training, even though he still uses his papers occassionally. He will be 3 in June and is neutered.

I decided to retire the crate this week and leave him out to see how things went. So far I've had no problems with accidents. We did try putting a gate up in the kitchen when he was a puppy but he somehow knocked it down one day and the next day was able to scale it and climb over! The pee pads never worked for me. He either peed beside them or shred them to pieces. He is good now about telling us when he has to go. I've limited his food and water access when I'm not home so hopefully that will help prevent any accidents.

IndianaJ, I swear I could have written your thread. I thought I was patient! 4 years? My Farrah is 14 mos old and has a very similar problem. She is not a climber so I don't have gate issues. But she can not and will not "hold it" during the night. It can be 3 or 4 hours between outings during the night and I will still wake up to poo and pee in her crate. And she rests peacefully on it. This problem is only at night. I can crate her during the day while I run out (I do not work) with no problems. While I'm home she can be in the kitchen and will use the potty bells on the door. 30 or 40 times a day but she's going outside so whatever it takes.
I was giving her back to the breeder a couple of days ago I was so stressed about it. But I heard that they can take up to 18mos old to "get it". So I sectioned off a small area of the kitchen by the door that has the potty bells on it and put a pee pad there, her crate and the bed she likes during the day. She slept on the bed and did pee and poo on the pad in front of the door last night. Don't know if it was a fluke that she used the pad or not. She never liked the pads. She Loves to go out. So time will tell. Tonight I will remove the crate and see how she does. BTW, she has never needed that "den" feeling. Strange. Good luck with the advice you have received. And the litter box. Thank you for posting!

Our past beloved Keally was a devil when she was a puppy. We tried to crate train her and she would potty all over in her crate. She also would scream non stop that it actually upset her to a point of dehydration. The point was she did not like a crate and that was it. I did lots of washing too but we decided to puppy safe the kitchen and let her run around. She hated dog beds you would come home to a bed shredded with pee and poop on it. We then just gave her a blanket. We had her pee pad trained and she always went to her paper to go potty. After awhile she could run the house and she always slept with us.Keally came from a breeder who did not socialize her and sold her to us at 8 weeks old. Sure she did some naughty stuff but we used patience and love. To find out she had separation anxiety so we had to deal with that with patience and again lots of love. My point is some dogs will not stay in a crate and that is it. If they don't like it they can hurt themselves and tear their paws up. As others said try the kitchen or bathroom and I think that will work out for you. We have a new baby today and she is good about a crate and we bought her from a very good breeder. Poor Keally did not get that good breeder chance. All these babies have little minds of their own and it all takes time. If we had to do it over again with separation anxiety with Keally we would take her back in a heartbeat to meet our dear Kinder. Hope this works out for you.

Sounds like you got wonderful advice!

I had a similar situation with Taycie as well. I was crate training and about 16 weeks I felt it went out the window. She would pee on her blankets... Thankfully never poop:) But even if her crate was open she would go in there and pee!

Needless to say I had one VERY confused puppy:).. You see, I was taking her outside during the day at work and at home I was using puppy pads. She would do WONDERFUL at work and then at home I had issues. So after some long hard reading this is what I did.

The x-pen, play pen is wonderful advice! This saved my butt! I set this up in my room with a dog bed and toys on one side then her potty area on the other. I also keep water in her xpen.. alot of the reading material advised no water during potty training but I have different feelings on that subject.

I then decided to get rid of the puppy pads because that was what she did not like, and seemed like the problem causer. SO my solution to this was plant a sod box! I just bought an under the bed container and drilled holes in the bottom for water. I added some soil and cut a piece of sod to fit. The entire thing cost me 10 BUCKS and was a major livesaver:)

With in a week she was 95% back on track. She is now almost 10 months old and I NEVER have accidents. She will scratch on the door or stand on my back and growl now.. she is doing fantastic:)

I also washed everything in her crate with urine out and laundry detergent on HOT.. sometimes they can still smell it even if you can't and bleached her entire crate. Dogs will pee if they can smell it.. no matter what:)

I also did take her blankets out of her crate for a few days, I know this may seem sad but this helped a ton because her blankets were absorbing the urine. The minute she peed in her crate without blankets, actually happened when we where driving. There was not alot I could do until I got home, but she cried and cried and cried. OH how she hated standing in her pee with NO blanket. The minute I got her home I bathed her and a few weeks later I did add her blankets back.. she has NEVER peed in her crate since!

I would also try schedule feedings if you dont already. That helped me a ton too! I hope this helps:)

Yup sounds exactly like separation anxiety! My Roxy is 6 and we still have pee accidents from her S.A.

I agree with what has been suggested, time to rid the crate...Try an expen ;)

Sounds like he does not like to be there... Not that it took rocket science to figure it out. But, If is is completely potty trained everywhere else....Maybe he gets scared in his crate by himself....I thing the ex pen suggestion is a good one!

Good luck!

Carrie& Tucker

Just wanted to add possibly letting him sleep with you during the night. I am not a dog in the bed person, but I have "caved" since my last post. Farrah sleeps like a champ with me. Good luck and please update us. : )

Why do you have to crate him? Sorry, but I've never been a fan of crating. I wouldn't want to be cooped up in a crate all day so why should my dog like it! If he's house trained, why does he need the crate? Maybe it would be better to confine him to a small area of the house when you're gone, like a kitchen. That way, it is easy to clean up any mess. I'm also not a fan of not leaving water around at all times for dogs. They can't tell us when they are thirsty and inadequate water can lead to UTIs (In people and dogs!)

I don't know if this is 'advice' but I had almost an identical problem. We got Bandit a little young (11 weeks) and crate trained. He was always having accidents in his crate no matter how small it was and how often we took him out. He was always having accidents in the house. When we first got him he was really sick so the first few weeks I don't want to really count. Then, when we walked him he'd go out during walks, but he'd still go in his crate. The only place he wouldn't go was in our bed lol:rolleyes:. After he was 1 he started getting better and then when he was 1 1/2 we moved from the apt into our house and it seemed almost like the miracle fix.

My theories are that he had a lot of accidents we didn't see and therefore didn't put the natures miracle on, or there was a dog in the apt before us that had peed on the floor and the smell was still there.

Maybe you could have your carpets shampooed with cleaner plus nature's miracle? If he's smelling anything he could be smelling it in his crate too? That's just my totally random theory lol. Good luck!

Wow! After reading this post I felt as if I was writing it. My dog Gizmo is 1 years old and has the same problems. No matter what, he poops and pees in his crate even though when we are home he know to go the backdoor to be let out. IndianaJ- I give you credit on having to deal with this for 4 years because my husband and I are at our wits end and we have had Gizmo for almost a year now. After reading the advise, I think I am going to look into getting a ex pen with a top on it and hope to god that it might work because we do have an ex pen but he has jumped out of it several times and one time had gotten his paw stuck. Luckily, I was close by to get him out of the jam!
Good luck to everyone who is facing similar situations!

Hi Brody's Mom! What is the name of the playpen you have and where did you get it?
I am thinking of trying out what you did with my little boy! Thanks!

Hi Brody's Mom! What is the name of the playpen you have and where did you get it?
I am thinking of trying out what you did with my little boy! Thanks!

Our Charlie was also sick when we first got him so the potty training was delayed abit. We were crate training him and LOTS of accidents! I was frustrated and bought a portable play area. He didn't mind being in it but always picked a corner to pee and poo! So after almost 2 weeks I took it away and went back to crate training. I have been back for almost 2 weeks and he hasn't had one accident in his crate! I can't figure it out...LOL I also have been teaching him to paw the bell on our door to go outside. The last 4 days he has been doing this and everytime he has done his business outside. He is picking up on things quickly now that he is feeling better...there is hope :)

This you probably don't want to hear, but I'd say he's "crate trained" - crate trained to potty there instead of announcing he needs out to go. I would think it would be very hard to untrain him of that.
My dogs sleep in crates at night, so it's their beds, if they need out to go potty - or goof off around the house, which is usually the case -- they wimper to get out and I let them out. The crates are next to the bed so all I have to do (half asleep) is lift the lid and out they come ---so is he being left in there too long? No one hearing him when he needs out? Is having him in a crate really all that important? Maybe not use a crate at all since that's where he thinks he's suppose to potty. If your house is puppy proofed let him sleep where he wants, foregoing the crate altogether. Or close off the bedroom door and lay a potty pad down by the door and if he'll use a potty pad, if he's free to roam (at least in one room) he'll probably use it and then go back to sleep. IDK, just some thoughts...I know if my dog continued to make a mess in a crate I wouldn't be putting her back into it. The old saying, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different response probably isn't going to happen.

new pups are like new babies...I've heard the time limit for holding their potty is one hour per one month of age...thus a 2 month old puppy could conceivable hold its potty for 2 hours. (I've found...after 5 puppies it seems to hold pretty true) That's the problem with a puppy you do need to get up every 2-3 hours during the night to take them out or to their potty pads. If you're forcing them to be contained during the night you do have an obligation to let them out to go potty, regardless of how tired you are. They don't want to potty in their beds, but without someone to let them out, you're essentially forcing them to go where they don't want to.
They're going to go, so it's up to you to either get up when they have to go or clean it up the next day. We do get up and down every night with the young pups, we alternate nights though hubby is very good about doing it more often than I (yes, I'm grateful) and we're tired the next day, but until you can get that down you have to do that.
We just got a new pup Saturday...and yes, the last few nights as I groggily take them to the potty pad I'm thinking, 'what was I thinking getting another puppy??!!' lol but that's the way it is.