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-   -   6+ years old, had it up to here - need help. (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-training-questions/216883-6-years-old-had-up-here-need-help.html)

Luvdogs2 11-27-2010 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalina82 (Post 3340422)
the heeler, i believe, lives with his parents back home. The OP moved in into his DF's apartment where Bdog lives as an only dog.

Correct. He's pretty much a permanent resident of my parents home now.

They get along when Bdog comes up to visit. The 'heeler actually avoids Bdog. He will walk around the perimeter of a room to avoid her for some reason. I don't know why.

kjc 11-27-2010 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luvdogs2 (Post 3340452)
Correct. He's pretty much a permanent resident of my parents home now.

They get along when Bdog comes up to visit. The 'heeler actually avoids Bdog. He will walk around the perimeter of a room to avoid her for some reason. I don't know why.

Dogs can sense when there's a problem... Bdog has been acting out and her doggy instincts and mannerisms are out of whack. The heeler picks up on this unbalanced state of being, and is avoiding it.

You may be able to use the heeler in Bdog's rehabilitation. Walking them together can help form bonds, and can teach Bdog how a 'more normal' dog acts and help her to become centered once again. If the heeler is housebroken, I would bring him to the apartment, where Bdog can see how he goes out to potty. This may be a quicker fix to helping Bdog get 'on track'.

Yorkies are referred to as 'babies' on this forum quite often, but I believe many also realize that they are dogs, first and foremost. When situations are presented to them they do their best to be accommodating, but when their natural being is too influenced the wrong way (away from natural tendencies), they become unbalanced, and others dogs will pick up on this.

Elle 11-27-2010 02:24 PM

This is a disgusting post. I can't see how a women would stay in a relationship with a man that hit her dog. There's hope for this dog. But she's not even yours! Big strong manly man like yourself, hitting a SIX lb little itty bitty tiny of the tiniest dogs. WTH???????

The only hope a caveman has in training this yorkie is to take her to class himself. He needs to bond with her. The bitch isn't not happy in the him. She may never house train. This is a fact with some yorkies. If she hasn't had a full vet eval, she needs to. They need to rule out all medical reasons why she does not hold her bladder. The bitch should not be confined at night and during the day. It is one or the other, with a potty break. Never any more. This man needs class to see if he can learn to show love to an animal. This is not 1920 and they aren't living on a farm. A xpen is not going to do anything unless this man learns a great deal about canine behavior!!!!!!!!! Class is the only solution.

PLEASE TALK YOUR GIRLFRIEND INTO REHOMING THIS YORKIE TODAY.

Luvdogs2 11-27-2010 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elle (Post 3340634)
This is a disgusting post. I can't see how a women would stay in a relationship with a man that hit her dog. There's hope for this dog. But she's not even yours! Big strong manly man like yourself, hitting a SIX lb little itty bitty tiny of the tiniest dogs. WTH???????

The only hope a caveman has in training this yorkie is to take her to class himself. He needs to bond with her. The bitch isn't not happy in the him. She may never house train. This is a fact with some yorkies. If she hasn't had a full vet eval, she needs to. They need to rule out all medical reasons why she does not hold her bladder. The bitch should not be confined at night and during the day. It is one or the other, with a potty break. Never any more. This man needs class to see if he can learn to show love to an animal. This is not 1920 and they aren't living on a farm. A xpen is not going to do anything unless this man learns a great deal about canine behavior!!!!!!!!! Class is the only solution.

PLEASE TALK YOUR GIRLFRIEND INTO REHOMING THIS YORKIE TODAY.

I'll agree it was a disgusting post....but the entire Thread is giving me so much to work with and there has been a plethora of information that has been helping on so many levels.

I know the word you are using is what would be the term used for a female dog, but I don't even use that word because I don't want to associate a common slang, derogatory word for this pup. I just can't bring myself to use the word in reference to her, and Bdog has become my pet name for her - like when I talk to her I start off with her name and then drop in a Bdog when she's excited and playing. Yes, she WAS my fiance's dog, but now that we are getting married, Bdog has become my dog too. We share the same roof and we share each others company.

I'm not arguing here or wishing to fight - but we aren't rehoming the dog...we aren't even close to thinking about it. Sorry, but she's here to stay and I'll keep working off the suggestions and answers given through the thread and I'll keep posting the results - and I'll for sure be asking more questions as they come up. Since I have been home and working, I have not been able to post new things on the simple fact that I am not there to work with her. Believe me Sunday night or Monday when I have a chance to work with her more, I'll be letting you all know how it goes.

I have just as much faith in the dog as the hope I have too. The easy route isn't always the right one.

I'll keep you posted.

P.S. I'm sure all of you already know, but simply talking and conversing with you all has helped ME in all this on many levels too. Establishing the dialogue and speaking on the thread as well as the PM's have been fantastic. It has without doubt, opened up perspectives I had not seen before. Some may question me, my intent or my attitude, but let time tell if I am evil or not.

Luvdogs2 11-27-2010 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjc (Post 3340572)
Dogs can sense when there's a problem... Bdog has been acting out and her doggy instincts and mannerisms are out of whack. The heeler picks up on this unbalanced state of being, and is avoiding it.

You may be able to use the heeler in Bdog's rehabilitation. Walking them together can help form bonds, and can teach Bdog how a 'more normal' dog acts and help her to become centered once again. If the heeler is housebroken, I would bring him to the apartment, where Bdog can see how he goes out to potty. This may be a quicker fix to helping Bdog get 'on track'.

Yorkies are referred to as 'babies' on this forum quite often, but I believe many also realize that they are dogs, first and foremost. When situations are presented to them they do their best to be accommodating, but when their natural being is too influenced the wrong way (away from natural tendencies), they become unbalanced, and others dogs will pick up on this.

Oh, getting him off the farm and to the apartment is a hard thing to do. Dad would miss him too much and he hates being away from home. Bdog is very possessive of her toys and fights other dogs in the home. The 'heeler is 70 pounds and he has both of his fella's because dad and I want to get him a girlfriend. His structure, parents and temperament has got at least 1 litter spoken for from people he has been around (if not 2 litters). I fear with his size and the fact he isn't cut, if she started something, I don't know if I would be able to get them apart before something bad happened. One of his jobs on the farm is to keep critters out of the barns while he is out - which is a big reason why I've had to bathe him repeatedly after having a few run ins with those black and white "kitties" that smell awful. Being aggressive isn't really his thing, but every animal has fight or flight instincts - and he hasn't shown a lot of flight when given the opportunity.

One thing I do see is when Bdog comes over for a weekend with momma, the 'heeler will avoid her, but he also gathers up his toys in the house and hides them. Since Bdog has a potty habit and the 'heeler is as I have explained above, she's not allowed off the leash in my parents place. When we are outside, she isn't leashed at all where she is in town. She has the whole 2.5 acres of lot to run free. My fiance was not liking the idea at first, but when I showed her nothing bad would happen as long as she is kept off the road, it would be fine and to just let her run.

I think she likes being up here...I hope to get a place similar to my parents when school is over.

Luvdogs2 11-27-2010 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjc (Post 3339978)


What does she do if you approach her cage with a treat? Maybe stop on your way to bed, and see if you can change her attitude. As treat motivated as she is, this may be easy to correct. Don't treat her when she's showing her teeth though!

I stop and speak to her softly and tell her to be good and I'm not doing anything. I might have to try the treat, but I doubt she will get much because she's bare teeth most of the time.

She does bark a lot when you get the treats out, but she's not getting it at the door (but we've not been working on it together for but 2 days and my fiance is having even more difficult time with her). I'm hoping that not giving her the treat until after we get through the door will avert the barking for the treat as she sees the door opening as more of the reward. As we work on this, I am wanting to give her the treat later down the hall until we get outside and then stop the treat on the way out to go potty altogether. Then we can have the treat when we get back inside and she goes to the bathroom like she should.

I hear you on the warning though - which is why I want to make sure to mix it up enough on treat delivery that she doesn't think that it's speaking that gets the treat, it's the bathroom outside that does.

DamSweet 11-27-2010 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luvdogs2 (Post 3340738)
Oh, getting him off the farm and to the apartment is a hard thing to do. Dad would miss him too much and he hates being away from home. Bdog is very possessive of her toys and fights other dogs in the home. The 'heeler is 70 pounds and he has both of his fella's because dad and I want to get him a girlfriend. His structure, parents and temperament has got at least 1 litter spoken for from people he has been around (if not 2 litters). I fear with his size and the fact he isn't cut, if she started something, I don't know if I would be able to get them apart before something bad happened. One of his jobs on the farm is to keep critters out of the barns while he is out - which is a big reason why I've had to bathe him repeatedly after having a few run ins with those black and white "kitties" that smell awful. Being aggressive isn't really his thing, but every animal has fight or flight instincts - and he hasn't shown a lot of flight when given the opportunity.

One thing I do see is when Bdog comes over for a weekend with momma, the 'heeler will avoid her, but he also gathers up his toys in the house and hides them. Since Bdog has a potty habit and the 'heeler is as I have explained above, she's not allowed off the leash in my parents place. When we are outside, she isn't leashed at all where she is in town. She has the whole 2.5 acres of lot to run free. My fiance was not liking the idea at first, but when I showed her nothing bad would happen as long as she is kept off the road, it would be fine and to just let her run.

I think she likes being up here...I hope to get a place similar to my parents when school is over.

Just a reminder - I don't know what other "critters" may be in the area - but you'll want to keep a close eye on her while she's off enjoying her space - since I'm assuming (which is an awful thing to do ) that there isn't a fenced in area - it's not just about keeping her from running off - it's about keeping those critters larger and meaner than her from coming too close. Unfortunate accidents can happen in the blink of an eye. Your area may be totally safe - I'm just reminding.

kjc 11-27-2010 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luvdogs2 (Post 3340738)
Oh, getting him off the farm and to the apartment is a hard thing to do. Dad would miss him too much and he hates being away from home. Bdog is very possessive of her toys and fights other dogs in the home. The 'heeler is 70 pounds and he has both of his fella's because dad and I want to get him a girlfriend. His structure, parents and temperament has got at least 1 litter spoken for from people he has been around (if not 2 litters). I fear with his size and the fact he isn't cut, if she started something, I don't know if I would be able to get them apart before something bad happened. One of his jobs on the farm is to keep critters out of the barns while he is out - which is a big reason why I've had to bathe him repeatedly after having a few run ins with those black and white "kitties" that smell awful. Being aggressive isn't really his thing, but every animal has fight or flight instincts - and he hasn't shown a lot of flight when given the opportunity.

One thing I do see is when Bdog comes over for a weekend with momma, the 'heeler will avoid her, but he also gathers up his toys in the house and hides them. Since Bdog has a potty habit and the 'heeler is as I have explained above, she's not allowed off the leash in my parents place. When we are outside, she isn't leashed at all where she is in town. She has the whole 2.5 acres of lot to run free. My fiance was not liking the idea at first, but when I showed her nothing bad would happen as long as she is kept off the road, it would be fine and to just let her run.

I think she likes being up here...I hope to get a place similar to my parents when school is over.

Well, walking them on leash together may help them to bond, if nothing else.

I am worried about her being off leash. Many people do this, I'm not saying it's wrong or anything, but let's just say for me and mine I consider it too much of a risk. Even dogs with excellent recall skills have been known to take off after a rabbit and go into the road, and many have suffered disasterous results.

nana911 11-27-2010 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamSweet (Post 3340747)
Just a reminder - I don't know what other "critters" may be in the area - but you'll want to keep a close eye on her while she's off enjoying her space - since I'm assuming (which is an awful thing to do ) that there isn't a fenced in area - it's not just about keeping her from running off - it's about keeping those critters larger and meaner than her from coming too close. Unfortunate accidents can happen in the blink of an eye. Your area may be totally safe - I'm just reminding.

And unless the acreage has a lid...don't forget the evil eagles!! Yes, they really do carry off little dogs, and if they are too heavy they drop them and the fall hurts them terribly. And eagles fly faster than you can run!

yep...it's always sumthin'

Elle 11-27-2010 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luvdogs2 (Post 3339770)
Oh, we hang our coats up out of reach. I was just illustrating her behavior and what she likes to tear up. I would have though shoes and such would be on the menu, but she's good with them. I'm glad, I'd be lost without my Birks...

I'll make sure to look into better food when she's doing a bit better in the working and after we make some headwind.

I have suggested to my fiance to start coming home for her breaks at work and she says it's impossible even though she's only about 15 minutes away. She's in health care and never knows when her breaks will be and for how long. I do understand though, she's pretty busy at work.

Things will be a bit better too when I'm not in school and working a day shift and not have to worry about study groups and work around my schooling. I would home that my fiance would be able to find a transfer to first shift as well to make sure we aren't just meeting in bed and not see each other.

I agree on keeping the night time crating going. Judging by her actions, I'd hate to get the teeth again for shifting in bed - not to mention the sneak attack...

I can't get my fiance to acknowledge though that the dog doesn't need a heaping bowl of food at every sitting. I tried weighing out what she is supposed to eat and then weighing out the same portion for a person by a linear interpolation...1 ounce of food as suggested for a dog of 9 or 10 pounds and 16 ounces for a person of 160 pounds...that's a lot of kibble I would have to eat in comparison!

She didn't see what I was doing there, maybe some of you do?

I then weighed out the amount of food she wants to give her in one sitting, roughly a little over 2 ounces so that would make more than 32 ounces of kibble for a person to eat in one sitting...yeah, that's a LOT of kibble. You have to figure we eat between 8 to 12 ounces of a meat and some side dishes on a full on dinner out an about...more or less pending on who you are...but still, even with a visual tool like measuring out the food she still thinks that she will starve to death.

Any way to help get her on the same page as this? Do you think a trainer would back me up on the feeding issue? Maybe I'm wrong? I have read that over feeding can illicit digestive problems and she could go more in shorter periods of time - which makes perfect sense to me.

Still reading and learning, keep the suggestions coming if you have them.

Post some photos. If she's not overweight, she isn't being overfed. Don't try to make the same logic with her that you do with people or anything else. She's a yorkshire terrier. The smallest of the terriers. Originally bred as a working dog. They are toy dogs. Brave, ratters, tenacious. When a person with a yorkie rings a doorbell rings of a house full of dogs that are barking many yorkies will bark right back. They have needs that you do not understand. She needs class with YOU. You need to go to class because you do not understand her. She is missing out on a great life. You think her life is great there because you have a mindset of what YOU feel a life should be for a canine. You are missing it. Nobody wants a pet that is going to the bathroom all over. But you crossed that line so bad by striking her. Would you hit a baby if they bit you? Same thing. She doens't understand. You have not taught her anything. Stop blaming the other person that you share a dwelling with. Take ownership of the responsibilities. You can't share a life with her then pick and choose which parts of the bitch you want. Package deal and YOU are responsible. You need to go to class. We can give you tips but you need class if you want to keep her. You must learn the basic fundamentals of how to interact with positive reinforcement. You must learn why she does things. Why she chews things at her age.

You should understand the hurt and fear you've created in our lives by sharing this ************ way of living with her. She's been abused and neglected. If you care about her at all, man up and go to class with her. This isn't my first suggestion, but if you are sincere about helping her then you will.

Instead of trying to find things where the girlfriend dropped the ball, look for places to succeed. Class, isn't the be all end all. It is the beginning of a very long path. She doesn't trust you, she isn't happy and you have work to do to mend it. If it's possible. Don't let her cute face or neediness fool you. Her actions show a very troubled little girl. They do not forget. This is heartbreaking. It makes my blood boil. She wasn't born to have the life she's living. You and your gf care about your careers, but there's a much different way of living out there for these little wee ones. This forum can help, but it is not anywhere near what you need. Please I beg you, please! Please take her to class. Let an educated person help you. Let them help your gf. This little girl doesn't deserve this.

I'm tired of reading about where she fails. This is YOUR responsibility. You aren't doing anything about it. You have an insecure yorkie that doesn't trust, doesn't feel loved, doesn't know who she is. You need to learn it all.

Elle 11-27-2010 08:12 PM

So you don't use correct terminology regarding the canine gender. You wouldn't find offense in it if you spent more time understanding their behavior. If you really want to be the good guy and your gf won't allow you to rehome her, you need class. I don't think you have a choice about keeping her or not. if you could get rid of her, you would have long ago. But she's not going for it, is she?



Quote:

Originally Posted by Luvdogs2 (Post 3340724)
I'll agree it was a disgusting post....but the entire Thread is giving me so much to work with and there has been a plethora of information that has been helping on so many levels.

I know the word you are using is what would be the term used for a female dog, but I don't even use that word because I don't want to associate a common slang, derogatory word for this pup. I just can't bring myself to use the word in reference to her, and Bdog has become my pet name for her - like when I talk to her I start off with her name and then drop in a Bdog when she's excited and playing. Yes, she WAS my fiance's dog, but now that we are getting married, Bdog has become my dog too. We share the same roof and we share each others company.

I'm not arguing here or wishing to fight - but we aren't rehoming the dog...we aren't even close to thinking about it. Sorry, but she's here to stay and I'll keep working off the suggestions and answers given through the thread and I'll keep posting the results - and I'll for sure be asking more questions as they come up. Since I have been home and working, I have not been able to post new things on the simple fact that I am not there to work with her. Believe me Sunday night or Monday when I have a chance to work with her more, I'll be letting you all know how it goes.

I have just as much faith in the dog as the hope I have too. The easy route isn't always the right one.

I'll keep you posted.

P.S. I'm sure all of you already know, but simply talking and conversing with you all has helped ME in all this on many levels too. Establishing the dialogue and speaking on the thread as well as the PM's have been fantastic. It has without doubt, opened up perspectives I had not seen before. Some may question me, my intent or my attitude, but let time tell if I am evil or not.


Elle 11-27-2010 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamSweet (Post 3340747)
Just a reminder - I don't know what other "critters" may be in the area - but you'll want to keep a close eye on her while she's off enjoying her space - since I'm assuming (which is an awful thing to do ) that there isn't a fenced in area - it's not just about keeping her from running off - it's about keeping those critters larger and meaner than her from coming too close. Unfortunate accidents can happen in the blink of an eye. Your area may be totally safe - I'm just reminding.


No area is totally safe. You're right to assume this. Especially with a terrier that isn't trained. You should never trust any yorkshire terrier off a lead, even a trained one. Unless there is a fenced area or confident. A bunny, fear, loud noise. A fox.

Sad. Where's the breeder? This is why breeders need to make sure they do a good job interviewing. You must know who has your puppies. Education, training.

Luvdogs2 11-27-2010 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamSweet (Post 3340747)
Just a reminder - I don't know what other "critters" may be in the area - but you'll want to keep a close eye on her while she's off enjoying her space - since I'm assuming (which is an awful thing to do ) that there isn't a fenced in area - it's not just about keeping her from running off - it's about keeping those critters larger and meaner than her from coming too close. Unfortunate accidents can happen in the blink of an eye. Your area may be totally safe - I'm just reminding.

She's on a leash when the sun is setting or dark out, that's when the critters come out. It's a rare occasion to see anything larger than a crow out here. We have coyotes, but they steer so clear of the house, I have seen a total of 2 in my life out here but you hear them at night every night.

The thing is, out here, off the leash she wants to be with mom anyway. I think she would be like that if we let her off leash in town, but like it was said squirrel or bunny and she'd be off like a light switch. Not good with traffic and such. She's not just wanting to be near mom because we are in a new place, she is just very attached to her and likes being in her presence.

I watch for harmful or hurtful things when we do the off leash - and she's not unsupervised when she is. It's playing or enjoying the sun - like a dog park with only one dog that steers clear of her.

I also understand where you are coming from - I'm not saying there is no danger at all, but we use our heads on this for the reasons mentioned by you all on your concerns.

Besides, the 'heeler does a good job on keeping the critters away. ...but on the flip side of that, it's always good to be cautious.

Luvdogs2 11-27-2010 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elle (Post 3340875)
So you don't use correct terminology regarding the canine gender. You wouldn't find offense in it if you spent more time understanding their behavior. If you really want to be the good guy and your gf won't allow you to rehome her, you need class. I don't think you have a choice about keeping her or not. if you could get rid of her, you would have long ago. But she's not going for it, is she?

I rarely use words that are considered offensive, even if they are a double word like the b-word. In my earlier postings, on a forum about dogs even, I refrained from using it as I am right now. I'm don't often cus, and like I said, it's just a personal preference of mine to not use the word even though it is suitable. I just don't want to associate it with her. I hear that word used in a derogatory setting far more often then it's real purpose of definition...sorry, it's just the way I feel.

Again, I'm not trying to fight here...but some of you think you have me pegged and are quite sure of your feelings about me. I hate to burst the bubble here, but you couldn't be more wrong.

I have said from the start that I don't hate this dog. I don't want her gone or put down. I don't want anything even remotely close to that idea. I don't think about her age and think "ok, only this many more years to go..." I have had quite a bit of discouraging scenarios with this pup, but that's part of the situation as it unfolded. What's important, and I can't stress enough here, is that I'm in the right place (not only physically, but mentally too) to help.

Please don't sit there and chastise me for placing blame - I'm not. I will say that I have been met with resistance from a dog owner that loves this dog to death, who treats it with such unconditional love, but has become complacent with the situation of messing her crate at least once a week if not almost every night at times. She has done nothing to avert the behavior besides a scold when she gets her out when she comes home - of which I have found is not the way to handle it either and I promptly passed it along to her it isn't a good idea and try to stop doing it. I am here doing the research because I have stepped up to the challenge and I'm leading the way here because she has not done so - and if she isn't, somebody does or the dog will not get better.

I don't see how all this makes me the "Bad Guy" in all of this besides the fact I did something wrong and am making amends for it.

I have faith in the suggestions made on the boards here, and a professional might offer some alternative advice at times, but the true professional is the ones that have the most experience and I feel that the members of a forum called Yorkie Talk in the Training section would fit that bill rather nice.

I'm going to work on the plans and ideas that were made available to me by the good members here and run with the idea while keeping you all posted. If nothing works, and all resources exhausted and ideas down the tube - then I think it's time for a trainer.

The good people here have spelled it out (literally) on their experiences and suggestions...what better way to understand then by the people who are experienced specifically on this particular breed? Where could a person find a better source of much needed information?

And to answer your question - I haven't asked her to remove the dog or get rid of it. I'm not "working" that avenue. I'm telling anyone reading - the dog isn't going anywhere, even if my fiance suggested it or looked into rehoming her. She's here to stay - bottom line.

One more day and I get to go back to see my girls. I'll let you know how it goes.

Deuce 11-27-2010 11:51 PM

If your fiancee chooses to re-home HER dog she has every right to, and probably would if you TOLD her she wasn't allowed to. She has had this dog for 6+ years, you have not. The two of you are not married yet, and therefore any decisions she makes regarding her property (yes, unfortunately dogs are still considered property) is her decision to make. You sound like a control freak and I strongly suggest counseling to help you find a way to not need to be in control of everything and everyone. It will help you with "bdog" and with future children that you have with your fiancee.


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