Washable pee pads - we'll try it.

Now, did I say that she's pooping in the crate 29 times out of 30? Are the pee pads good for that too? I know she's peeing in the house when let free, but after reading the posts and responses by you all, I'm making the connection too that she isn't being taken out enough and that's our fault. If the pee pads will assist us while we retrain ourselves too, that would save some cleaning and discouraging scenarios with the human error.

Yes, a nurse - graduating with her bachelors in May. I asked her about the nutrition facts and such, she wasn't a plethora of info, which is why I was online looking it up when she told me the name of the brand a few months ago.

I'm grateful for the info and I'm so glad I asked about the alpha rollover idea. That's why I'm here after all. It's a good thing I asked too - thank you very much for the insight.

I have spoken with the vet on my previous dogs about the importance of diet on the condition of their skin and coat. Oh, that reminds me - do any of you have issues with allergies and skin on your Yorkies? Bdog has had to do steroids and other things because she gets scabs or something. Please don't tell me this is because of the food. The vet didn't say it was, but I know the even professionals don't know everything all the time.

I copy and saved post 180 a while ago to keep the dog food info handy. I'll consult it again when I look up the alternative foods. Now, we already touched base on it, but I want to make sure. Switching food now isn't a good idea or is the brand so undesirable that I should be phasing it out and into a better type immediately?

The first line in this post made me grin...

Is putting a water bottle in there a good idea though? I'm not questioning your input, just wondering if it should maybe be something after she shows more progress. Do dogs eat or drink in stress and anxiety? If so, wouldn't that worsen the situation by allowing her to load up and then have to go when we are trying to get her to hold it and go outside? I'd really like to have her not be one of the types to need the pee pads all the time.

Absolutely no offense or questioning your idea, just letting my ignorance out and needing clarification.

I hadn't heard the roll over was a precursor to killing in the wild, I thought it was pack leadership and kind of a warning to the challengers in the pack. I'm learning things left and right here!

Thank you for taking time to post on your holiday. That goes for everyone too.

Lillymae, another heartfelt Thank You from the bottom of my hear goes out to you as well. Each one of you that has taken time from your day to post your ideas and suggestions as well as answers to my questions also are deserving of my gratitude and extreme thanks. Appreciation and thanks is an awfully simplistic way of pronouncing how I feel.

You nailed a few things on the head there. My talk I had on Tuesday night was a bit frustrating at times because I was trying to get the point across to my fiance that I'm only trying to help and get out of the same routine and out of the rut. At one point I had to flat out ask her if she enjoyed cleaning the crate because I didn't wish to see her denied of life's pleasures. I think she gave up and accepted the impression that the dog would not learn behavior and house breaking.

I was met with some resistance on the training and how things aren't working, but I again assured her that it's only an attempt to move forward rather than sitting still. I asked her a few times to come up with ideas too and we'd try them, but most importantly, working together is the only way any plan is going to be successful.

By the end of our talk, we both were more tuned on what the other is thinking and we both parted each others company on good terms on high prospects.

You are correct too that I could have done a large number of other things, but I'm accepting the challenge and I'm not being discouraged by anything. I'm going to get this done one way or another. I'd much rather be in consult with those that have the most experience and a place like this is a resource I am honored to have at my fingertips. I did some poorly thought out things and I am certainly not proud of a lot of them (dogs and beyond), but if anyone out there is perfect in every aspect of life, please tell me your name and how you do it.

I realize my situation is different because Bridget and Greta have a gated room to spend the day in - but none the less, were less than willing to go in when I have to leave the house. This is the time I give them their Kongs filled with apples, carrots, beans. It gives them something to do and they look forward to the treat. Now when they know I'm leaving they do the "happy dance" and run to their room when they see their Kongs in my hand.

I never knew that - when Bridget and Greta play, Greta always winds up getting Bridget on her back. Is it that they know it's play that there is no damage done. I always found it strange because Bridget is actually the "alpha" dog (or so I thought). She will move Greta out of the way is she is somewhere Bridget wants to be. Bridget will also go right up and take a treat right out from under Gretas nose, and Greta will just back off and let her have them. Maybe Greta is really the Alpha, and just letting Bridget think she is....like us women do with the guys.....j/k ;)

:thumbup: I'm sure it wasn't easy coming on and telling an entire public forum about your mistakes, and harder to stay on and take the heat. I truly feel that he wants to make this work. I can only wonder how many people are welcomed and helped after posting a problem, but don't tell the "entire" story. I also don't condon hitting a dog, or a child, but we all make mistakes, ( I know I've landed my hand on my son and daughters butt a few times) it's what we learn from those mistakes that makes us better people. If criminals can be reformed, I think with YT help - this man is on the right path!

I don't know if I've said it, but if not....Welcome to YT - I've learned a ton of information from this post. With your determination, I'm sure you, your DF, and BDog will be on track in no time!

We all get testy here, me included :). This is a passionate forum, which is a good thing - but it also means sometimes our emotions are in the driver's seat (been there!). No problem....and no need to apologize, but it is appreciated no less.

To answer your questions:

--We use washable pee pads - they're great! Plus, better for the enviro. The little xpen I linked you to is only 3'x3'x23" high. So, it's a *great* size for a limited space. I bought this one for when Pfeiffer first got home, and it's a perfect size.

--The 'rolling the dog on its back' trick is considered less as an alpha move, and more as a very fear-invoking move. Remember the wolf-pack thing: wolves don't really have to 'roll/force' other dogs onto their backs. Rather, once submission is established, the submissive wolf rolls HIMSELF onto his own back and then looks to the dominant wolf. So, it's a move of choice. In the dog trng world, forcing a dog onto it's back is now considered rather anti-productive bc it's such a fearful, unnatural (when forced, rather than chosen) position. The 'throat' ie neck thing should be done on the back of the neck, never the front. It's really meant to be a subtle, stabilizing move.

--Bathing - some bathe every 2-3 weeks and for most, that's fine. If your kiddo has skin issues, then it's better to bathe every 3 days (if severe), or 1x per week if skin issues are present, but not greatly interfering w/ QOL.

--Feeding is guided first by the instructions on the product, then, feed to condition. The instructions are really an 'average'; so, to condition means - feed more or less, depending on body condition (feel her ribs/torso to assess).

It's really not pack leader, as I mentioned above. The submissive wolf/dog will roll over onto back electively, not thru force. :)

Their coats are like human hair. The oiliness could be a result of her allergy. I'd change her food to a Limited Ingredient Diet (Dick Van Patten makes one) and see if there's an improvement.

What does she do if you approach her cage with a treat? Maybe stop on your way to bed, and see if you can change her attitude. As treat motivated as she is, this may be easy to correct. Don't treat her when she's showing her teeth though!

I rolled my Sapphire over on the bed... we were playing, and I wanted to rub her belly. I thought if I got her over quickly and gave her the belly rub, she would enjoy it. Wrong! (I wasn't even thinking of the 'Alpha Roll till after I did it) She literally almost went into shock. Her eyes rolled back in her head, she began to stiffen up, and she appeared to be getting very disoriented. I quickly righted her and held her close and talked gently to her... after a minute or two she came back to herself. Close call there and very scary!

So I changed my method to giving her belly rubs as she laid on her side, and now after a month or two, the little monkey jumps onto the bed and flips herself over onto her back for the belly rub. Total different scenario, and she loves it!

Here a pic of an enclosed unit... yes, it doubles as a cat hammock:Attachment 331856


In summary: She should be checked by her vet. I would change her food to the LID, and get her on a probiotic/digestive enzymes: Nature's Farmacy - Store - Product Details=
(This is what I use). Sometimes dogs can develope an overgrowth of bad bacteria in their gut, which can cause inappropriate/frequent elimination.
Also, her allergy may be affecting her intestines and her skin, and her current food could be triggering her allergy. She may need a course of antibiotics to get her gut under control, then the probiotics help to keep it controlled. You have to fix what goes in before you can fix what comes out. If this is the problem, in a month you will see improvement in her coat also.

In defense of premium brand dog foods: One can buy cheaper food and treat for the allergy and pay the vet, or one can buy a premium food which improves general health, and require less frequent vet visits.

***If you buy a premium dog food at Petco or PetsMart, and your dog cannot tolerate it or refuses to eat it, they will give you a refund on the remaining amount in the bag.

My four weight between 7 and 14 pounds. They eat Life's Abundance and are fed twice daily. They get from 1/4 to 1/2 cup (dry moistened with water and mixed with canned) two times daily, with probiotics and a dash of coconut oil.

[QUOTE=Wylie's Mom;3339885]
--The 'rolling the dog on its back' trick is considered less as an alpha move, and more as a very fear-invoking move. Remember the wolf-pack thing: wolves don't really have to 'roll/force' other dogs onto their backs. Rather, once submission is established, the submissive wolf rolls HIMSELF onto his own back and then looks to the dominant wolf. So, it's a move of choice. In the dog trng world, forcing a dog onto it's back is now considered rather anti-productive bc it's such a fearful, unnatural (when forced, rather than chosen) position. The 'throat' ie neck thing should be done on the back of the neck, never the front. It's really meant to be a subtle, stabilizing move.

:thumbup::thumbup: What I have observed and this with the larger dogs, after all I only have one Yorkie:) is that there is a very rich body language by all dogs in a pack. One day when I was picking up my young Magic from boarding with his trainer, all the dogs maybe 7 or so were doing fine in the kitchen, big beasties all of them, rotties, great pyrenees, bull mastiff, well you get the idea, then I opened the door to go outside, oh boy thought i was going to be thrown off my feet by the ensuing rush of bodies. Well my young Magic made it out the door first, which the pack considered a No No. The two largest males, flipped him off his feet, then the rottie came in with a hell of a serious growl, all the dogs were surrounding Magic. Mike the trainer got out that door fast and broke it up. The problem was Magic wasn't staying down, like the pack wanted him to, and he was growling back.
I've observed over many play sessions this flip with a dog that doesn't "know" it's place. When Magic gets exasperated with our young female, he will flip her off her feet then stand right by her, and she then usually rolls on her back for a few seconds or so. :D Up she comes and off she goes to play again. lol

Dogs will turn head away from a dog that gets too frisky, then turn shoulders and finally body away until the other dog "gets" the message. To destress they will yawn and or lick their lips. We all know the play bow to invite play.
It is interesting to watch a pack at play.

Here a pic of an enclosed unit... yes, it doubles as a cat hammock:

Attachment 331860

That was kinda what I was going for. Since their residence is on the small side, the xpen could be construed as Bdog's 'room'. It could become a haven she enjoys going to. That would eliminate crate and kennel.

The water bottle is like the kind you use for hamsters and guinea pigs. I laughed too when I first heard of it. But it is wonderful. I can't remember for certain where I got mine, (Mom to Hot Rod?) Please someone jump in here? It is a double nozzle one, that came with its own little bottle. Nozzles inside and outside the pen so they can grab a drink either way. The reason is so there is no tipping or fouling of the water bowl. The water stays clean and their beards don't get wet and yeasty. Works great.
The nozzles are, of course, much bigger than for a hamster... I have mine hooked to the xpen, some YTers have really cool setup floor models. Feeding on a schedule is a personal choice and depends on your dog. Whatever the case maybe, your dog needs to always have fresh water available. If you feel that she cannot hold her bladder through the night, then some people remove liquids after a certain hour at night, just remove the bottle. But, during the day, water should always be available.

I've never done the roll. I think it is a deeply ingrained instinctive thing. But I do lightly curl my fingers and cup my hand over the back of their neck and upper back and ever so gently press when I say a stern no. I've done that once in a great while to get their attention when things have gotten seriously out of hand. That was when they were young and I thought they were going to kill each other and thought I had to calm them down. LOL. I know better now. They just wrestle and play very hard. I learn more from watching Bear discipline them. When they first came into the house and they annoyed him horribly and they were 3mths old, he would air bite a foot above their heads. Now he gets along with them great. But once in awhile, they do get on his more mature nerves, as when he's trying to nap and they want to examine his nostrils and I have witnessed him actually do the same thing with his mouth. Gently place it over their back and neck and push down at which point he releases they rollover, get up and walk away. They know and he goes back to napping. Fascinating.... Way different breeds, sizes....still dogs!!!!

Is she currently on steroids? If so, steroids will cause a marked increase in water consumption (short explanation: this is the body's response in attempting to dilute the steroid-induced increased sugar concentration in the blood) which causes a spillover effect - quite literally - in the form of excess urination. Something to consider when looking at her potty schedule.

I agree with changing diet and trying to get her allergies under control without the use of steroids. Not healthy at all.

Yorkies can by trying little things :rolleyes: Good luck.

It is neat how different breeds, different sizes and different personalities can present themselves, but they still know what's going on between them. I've asked my 'heeler at home to talk to Bdog and just let her know what I'm doing, but he must not understand me either sometimes...however, I did just manage to teach him to put his toys away on command. No joke, "put the ball away and get the rope" ends up with the ball in the basket and about half the time I get the rope...we are still working on it. At least the toys are getting put back in (or really close to) the basket. We've been working on that for a little while here and there. I'll admit, the 'heeler has been the easiest dog I have ever trained so I guess Karma is showing me how it works...on dog needs a lot of work, the other not much at all....both about a year and a half within each others age.

No, I think the steroids have been administered and are done as of a few weeks ago. The peeing isn't the problem in the crate so much for the long periods of time away (like fiance at work and me at school). Like I said, it seems like 29 out of 30 times is a chalupa in the crate. Occasionally there is pee problem, but poop is the majority.

Maybe Santa will get the pup a new house in our home. We'll have to just see about that.

LOL! That's super funny :D! And just *perfect* for a feline who needs some quality 'superiority' time :p. My late cat was still here when I got Wylie and she just LOVED looking down her nose at 'that bourgeois canine' -- she would have loved this tent/hammock.

So, you have two dogs in your apartment with yourself and your fiancee? Did the heeler come after "bdog" or before? Many dogs don't take kindly to having a new pup on their turf and that could have exacerbated the whole situation. If he is left to roam while she is locked in a crate that could also cause "jealousy" which may be causing the poop. Of course the poop in the crate might be because she has anxiety, I know when I'm anxious about something (surgery, deployment, etc.) my metabolism goes into over-drive.
I would definitely check with a vet, have some tests done to see if there is something medically wrong with her. I would also get rid of the crate all together, you can go hit up a garage sale or a flea market to see if they have a baby gate or a baby play pen that you may be able to throw a fitted sheet over the top of (in case she is a climber) and use that instead. That way she has an area where she can "go" if she needs to and her humans aren't home to take her out, and she'll have a comfy bed to sleep in that stays clean. It will help cut down on how much you have to wash her and will be a cozy place to chill when she has to.

the heeler, i believe, lives with his parents back home. The OP moved in into his DF's apartment where Bdog lives as an only dog.