How do you know when Crate Training isn't going to work?
 

My little faith is 10 weeks old. We have been crating her while I am at work. I work a full time job but have been heading home every 2 hours to let her out to potty since I work real close to home. She has been having accidents every day in her crate. Even after going potty before I put her in there each time. Is this just part of the learning process? I am wondering how you know crate training isn't going to work for your dog. My oldest Yorkie wasn't potty trained for a few months but he did not have this many accidents in his crate.

She has no bedding in the crate or towels in there. I have a divider up so she does not have much room so when she goes she is force to be right on it.

Any advice? Do I just need to have patience and give it some time?

Thanks!!!:

Crate training
 

I'm no expert and I've posted this before (and somebody shot me down), but I tried the same thing with my oldest yorkie when she was a baby and it didn't work. She was absolutely terrified of being left alone in the crate, even though she slept in it every night. She had the runs and would jump it across the floor. I finally gave in at about 4-5 months (tired of bathing her and cleaning the crate) and started putting her in my family room with my pek while we were away. It is puppy proofed and has puppy gates. It worked fine for me and she never had another accident when we left the house (even for 4-5 hours). She just needed the company of my pek. A lot of people crate their pups when they are away and it works; for me it didn't. Good luck and I hope it works out!

I had great success with crate training my first pup and not so much with the second. She is 1 year and still stays in her crate while we are gone and sleeps in there at night. Even now, she will occasionally have accidents, pee pee. I do put bedding in there so it feels comfy to them and hopefully discourages the urge to soil the comfy place they stay in.
I can't leave her out. Crating her is as much for her safety, as for my sanity. :)
Good Luck to you, I know this is a difficult task to tackle.

It does take some time and and TON of patience. LOL :) Where is your crate? I kept mine in the living room, where we spend most of the time. I didn't want them to feel as though the crate was punishment.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I wil not give up yet On crating but if in some time ah continues to mess while in it then I'll have to consider putting her in a hallway with a baby gate.

If my baby was only having accidents in the crate I think I would continue with it. At 10 weeks your baby is still very young and if not with momma, a crate is the safest place while you are away. With consisntency she will begin to understand the routine and time schedules. I have only had one that didn't ever accept a crate, and that is my baby Mylee. But, she stressed herself so severely in the crate that I was concerned for her health and safety. She literally panted to the point of drenching herself in saliva, so it was not the accidents in the crate that made me give up on it. I leave her out with my other dog now and she still gets nervous when we leave, but is more content to accept it.

Oh, and I would give your baby a towel or a bed. If she is urinating, she is standing in that and it can be irritating to the skin or feet, and even to breath in ammonia continuously can be irritating to the lungs if your crate is the closed in kind. Bedding will soak it up and help keep it away from her skin. Just have to plan a load of laundry every day.

Overall, I just think you need to be patient and keep working with her since she is still very little.

I'm very concerned that you are keeping you dog in a crate with no bedding or towels. At 10 weeks old most yorkies are with their mommies, who nudge them over to a pee pad. Keeping your baby warm, dry and safe should be a priority not training at this age. If she can't hold it for 2 hours, she can't hold it. Some people take them out every hour, it's never the dog's fault, and they should always have bedding. A dog can hold it longer during the night than it can during the day. You are trying to train through punishment, and this will surely backfire. A better option would to be to place her in an x-pen with several pee pads and bedding. Crate training should only be attempted when you can take them out every hour, and you gradually increase the time.

I brought my first pup home at 13 weeks old and he was about 3 pounds. He would have gone nuts if I had tried crating him. The xpen and piddle pad worked perfectly for him. He graduated to having a safe room to stay in fairly quickly. The Maxman excelled in potty training; it's his specialty. :p

Crate training works for some pups, but crates should never be used as babysitters for more than 3-4 hours a day -- if I recall correctly, that is what my breeder wrote in the instructions she gave me.

She's only using it for 2 hours at a time, but this is still too long for a 10 week old puppy, if they have an accident, then you know you waited too long. They will do everything in the power to hold it and not soil their bedding.

I can't tell you how strongly I agree with Nancy! That poor baby needs to stay warm and cuddle up to something while you are gone. You said you were thinking about putting a gate up in the hallway - PLEASE do. Put the crate (with bedding) in there too and your little one can use it for naps. If you put lots of peepads down he will learn to use them in emergencies. Is there someone near you that can come and check on him and take him outside when you can't? Could you maybe take a week or two off from work to bond and take him out every hour on the hour?
Good luck.

It makes me sad to think of this baby in a crate with no blankets or bed and no place to pee, except on herself. At 10 weeks, her bladder is probably about the size of a small marble and she can't be expected to hold it for so long. When my yorkies were small, I used a playpen which had enough room for a bed and blanket, food and water, and a pee pad. They never once went on anything but the pee pad while in there. Maybe you could take the divider out of your crate and put a bed in there and a pee pad in the extra area. I bet she would no longer pee on herself. She is likely feeling very insecure in the crate while you are away, with nothing to comfort her.

I crate trained my Maddie. When she was really little, I had a bed in the crate along with a pee pad (it is a larger wire crate). When they are that little they are still learning and will continue to have accidents. You may even be seeing pee because she got excited when you walked in (which would explain it being there even after she went outside). My Maddie also slept in this crate in our bedroom at night (she still does even though the door is left open all night now). When I consistantly came home to find the pee pad dry, I picked up the pad and put the wire divider up so that the crate was only large enough for her bed. If I knew I was going to be gone longer than I had ever seen the pad stay dry, I took it down and put the pad back in for that time and then put it back in.

This worked well for us because I work out of town but had daughters at home that were able to come in from school at lunch and then again straight away after school. My Maddie is now 2 1/2 and has the run of the house and hasn't had an accident in a long time. If we are going to be gone for the day shopping, or whatever, I still put her in her crate, but the divider is gone. Her bed is in there and the other size is full of toys and chews and she has never had an accident in her crate.

I strongly agree with you -- and your earlier post regarding bedding, etc.

I should have indicated that I was referring to general crate use when a dog is much older than 10 weeks.

Nancy1999 and others have given very good advice that should be helpful to you. Yorkies are known for being hard to housetrain, so be really patient.

I didn't crate train any of mine, used a playpen at first then an x-pen and pads cause they'd pee every half hour the first month or so. However, crate training does work well if done right.

This pup is too young and has a very tiny bladder, so leaving her in a crate beyond her ability to hold she is going to have to potty, and she just might get used to being in her own pee etc. and become even harder to train. Just my opinion, but I'd be concentrating on creating a cozy bed area with a separate area (pad) for potty.

I really believe in crate training. I find that it does take them time to get used to it, but it's so beneficial in the end! We've had a few terriers and have a Yorkie now, and we noticed that if they are given free reign to sleep on our bed or lay on our bed, the chances of them not liking their bed goes up.

I'm realizing that with Yorkies, consistency is the best. It does take a lot of work, but Mr. Gibbs loves to sleep in his bed now! He has two blankets that we swap, and he loves how soft and fluffy they are - I think it reminds him of our bed. Our only problem is his marking.

Keep it up, it'll be worth it in the end!

Yes, I agree, I think crate training is easier to accomplish overnight because they can hold it a little longer. I found it easier to use an x-pen during the day, and just crate train overnight, he was able to hold it three hours, and I placed him on a pee pad during the night, and then back in his crate with warm bedding. If you don't have an x-pen, many people just place the dog in a bathroom with bedding/crate and pee pads, and allow the dog to train itself.

This link has some excellent advice on crate training and other methods of housebreaking. Crate Training Your Puppy or Adult Dog. You will notice that a 10 week old puppy can only hold it an hour. You are suppose to take it out of the crate, place the dog on the pad or outside, and wait for it to go, if it doesn't go within a couple of minutes, you place it back in the crate, and wait another 10 or so minutes and try again. If it to goes this time, you praise it and allow it free time to play outside the crate. Then back in the crate for another hour. So you see crate training is done with you being home all the time.

I agree with Nancy1999. A 10 week old's bladder is way too small to expect them to hold it for very long. And also please remember, the crate is for us not for them...they do not automatically know where to pee and poo.

I think that you may want to think about either getting someone to come in every hour or getting an expen that will keep his crate, pad, and toys and food. And even if you do his, keep in mind, it doesn't guarantee that he will know or use the pad automatically.

please give this little one something to sleep on and to keep warm. He's only 10 weeks old and his little world has been turned upside down and he has no clue what is expected of him. He may not be a candidate for crate training. I never like having mine in a crate. we've got Hot Rod an expen within a week of having him. Best of luck.

Please put this poor puppy in a large xpen so it can have a bed, play area and potty area..doesn't have to be huge..but at least 2x3...no 10 wk old should be treated like this...I am a firm believer in confining puppies and even adults, but this teaches the puppy nothing....Yorkie bladders are so small at this stage, they need to pee when they need to pee...

We do put bedding in the crate when we are at home and when she sleeps. And I had been leaving her in there with her bedding until yesterday when I read 2 training books and both say to remove all bedding, towels ect. until they can keep the crate clean for atleast 2 weeks. SO??? Who do I listen to??? Super confused.

She has an xpen which is what we put her crate in. This is her place that we want her to ge used to until she is a bit older and can have more freedom.
I decided she just can't hold it for 1.5 to 2 hours right now and I can't go home every hour...and I also can't take time off from work...so...for the next few days I will just leave her crate door open and leave her in the pen with a couple of potty pads. We will try crating her next week to see if she can hold it longer...if not...we'll go back to the pen and try the crate a week later again.

Ignore those training books and follow the advice of the very wise people who posted above: Nancy, MauiGirl, Mom to Hot Rod, YorkieRose, Baby Blessing.

Put your baby in an xpen with comfy bedding and a piddle pad.

Maybe Mom to Hot Rod can post her picture of her setup, or I will go look for the link to the other thread where she posted it.

Oh good, I think this will work so much better, the crate should always been seen a safe comfortable den, not a punishment.

Just want to make sure I clarify how we are using the crate and pen. She is never in the crate for more than 2 hours at a time (except if she is sleeping which is at night). Each time I go home between 7:00 and 4:00PM (which is 3 to 4 times a day) she gets time to go outside to potty and I let her play for 10-15 minutes. During lunch she gets atleast 40 minutes before going back in the crate.

After 4PM, we have done our best to not be away from home unless we have to (like go to the grocery store) so we can play with her, bond and take her outside to potty. If we have to put her down to eat dinner or be away from her to cook or do something for a couple minutes she is put in her pen with her toys, crate, bed and potty pads. She is never in the pen more than 10-15minutes.

When it is bedtime, we take the crate into our bedroom, place it next to our bed and but her bed in there. She falls asleep with us after cuddling for a few minutes and in the crate we put her. She never hesitates to cuddle in her crate and sleep. During the night she whines and we take her to potty. She goes without any issues and back to sleep in the crate she goes without much whining.

Is there an issue with just continuing to use the xpen for during the day & then crating at night?
Our two small ones sleep in a crate at night & they love their little crates, it's their haven.
Camden is confined if we are gone during the day, but not in her night crate.
I also agree about having bedding in the crate.
Also, we never use the crate as punishment of any kind. We only want it to be a safe, happy place for them!

The only part that bothers me is that you are allowing her to lie in her own pee. Puppies can catch colds easily, and they need to be warm all the time. I have no problem with this, if you were using bedding, but you said that you weren't using any bedding. You could continue your same methods of training, but just use bedding, it's really not that hard to wash the bedding. Do you understand the difference?

I guess my only concern with pen during day and crate at night is that I don't want her to get accustomed to using potty pads forever. We want her to learn to hold it until we get home. We ultimately want her to hold it and go outside. Please realize we did the same training ritual with our older yorkie and we got him at 9 week old he had accident here and there but learned to hold it quickly. Now I know all dogs are different and she may just have a smaller bladder but I would like them both at some point to follow the same potty ritual.

If she is just too young to hold it right now then I can wait a couple weeks to see if she is able to hold it longer and then to try crating her during the day again but I don't want her to think the pen during the day is forever.

You are working hard to take care of your baby -- that is good!

Disregard what I initially wrote about the crate and go with what Nancy and others wrote. Your puppy needs access to potty more than every 2 hours. That is why many people are recommending the xpen with the piddle pad.

I sort of understand. Please don't take this the wrong way..not trying to sound condescending..just wanting to understand. What is the difference between her peeing on her bed, towel or shirt and being wet and her peeing on the plastic and being wet? Again, yesterday was the first time we took bed, shirt and towel out.

Should I continue using the crate with bedding (we can put that back in there) or do the xpen for now until she is a bit older and can hold it for 2 hours? My fear is she becomes accustomed to being in her pee/poop even if there is wet bedding in there. Also, if I should continue to try the crate..leave the divider or no divider?

If you are wanting to potty train her to go outside, the pads are just another way to get there. It will teach her to go in one area. Once she gets the idea of going in one area, you can start moving the pad slowly to the door and start taking her outside. Just because you train on pads, doesn't mean you will be stuck with it. Baby steps, she needs to be taught that she's expected to potty in a certain area and then where that area is. :)

here is my expen set up from when Hot Rod was younger. At one point, he had his food in there as well. Today I do not have water in there except if they chew on the bullies for a long time in the evening. I also have taken the crate out and have their beds and blankies in there.

If she pees on a blanket or towel, the blanket or towel holds lots of the moisture, and she can stay relatively dry, if she pees on a plastic tray, the pee stays there and she can't escape it at all. She will be wet and chilled. Think of a baby lying in a damp diaper vs. lying in a puddle of water.

I personally think most people make housebreaking too hard; they seem to be training themselves and not the dog. Since you have an x-pen, I would use that, and keep the crate door open, and have bedding inside the crate, and place pee pads outside the crate. If you keep on training the way you are training, you might end up training him to use the crate as a urinal, many people say their dogs won't go except in the crate, and this is not a good thing. I would leave the divider in and do the crate training overnight. I kept Joey's crate by my bed at nighttime, and he'd cry when he had to pee, so I would just place him on a pee pad in the bathroom and return him to his crate. Of course, praise her and give her a little treat, like a cheerio, when she does pee on the pad. I never punished for making a mistake, only rewarded for doing it correctly. They really want to keep their bedding dry, and this is instinctual, but if you don't allow them out at the proper times, you can train them to soil the bedding permanently. At first, I kept 2 pee pads in the x-pen, and as he got older, I only used one, they really prefer going on a pee pad, and the disposable ones have a scent on them that attracts them to the spot. Any accidents on carpeting and bedding should be cleaned with Nature's Miracle because they tend to want to go in the same spots over and over.