Debarking dogs
 

I'm sorry but anyone that debarks a dog is guilty of animal abuse.

To me this is never a solution and a breeder that does this is not a GOOD breeder and if you as a breeder condons this as a good practice are also not a GOOD breeder. Don't get into the business of breeding dogs if you can't stand the barking...... Breed cats...... or lizards but not dogs.

Would you do this to a baby that cried alot? Of course not...........

Yes, I hear you. I have a teen-age boy that I'd like to 'debark' every once in a while! And if there were a procedure to stop the eyes from rolling back in the head every time I make a statement . . . . .

OMG!!!!! This makes me sick! I never knew this could be done! I couldn't imagine even thinking about this.

OMG

That is all I can say.

I think its cruel and have only known one dog that actually had it done. It was a sheltie that my uncle had and it was debarked before they got the dog. The poor thing would open his mouth like he was barking but nothing came out but a rough cough sound. :(. I honestly didnt think vets or people did this anymore.. (yes call me naive).. however to me its just as cruel as those people who use shock collars to stop dogs from barking. My neighbors have a outside dog, that rarely gets fed, water etc (yes, they have been turned in and nothing was done) and because the girls parents (who live on the other side of them) couldnt handle the dog barking constantly anymore (however when they fed the dog, she quite barking!!) they bought the dog a shock collar, so know does she not only doesnt get fed she gets zapped every single time she barks because she's hungry... :(...
Sorry, I got carried away..
If you cant handle a dog barking then you shouldnt own one, plain and simple and you certainly shouldnt own a whole house full!!

Loved your reply. My teenager just grunts.

I don't do it nor do I condone it BUT I can not tell anyone else what to do with their dogs and YOU do not know the situtation or have seen it done.

Of course I wouldn't do it to a child but animal control can't come get a child if they are crying too much nor can CPS but if you live in an apartment or even in a housing addition with nasty neighbors and get complaints on a barking dog YOU CAN have your dog taken away...those kinds of people do NOT regard animals the way they do humans of course. So until you are put into a situation you don't know what you'll do. So, it's either have animal control take your dog and assess fines ect....I'm just using this as an example.
You personally do not know me and I'm sure you haven't done your research regarding my practices to know if I'm a good or bad breeder so until you know for sure and first hand how I do things you just don't know whether I'm good or not. As I've said I don't do it but just because I know some that do doesn't make me think any less of them because I do know their situation AND YOU DO NOT!

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Here are 2 very different inputs on the subject...
I would not do it with my dogs , but... read the second opinion...


Debarking not the right way to stop the noise

By Dr. Kathy Gaughan, assistant professor of clinical sciences at Kansas State University's Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital

Photo of Kathy GaughanAlthough this procedure may keep your pet at least a little quieter, it doesn't address the main problem -- why the dog is barking in the first place. The surgery doesn't take away the motivation to bark or address any underlying behavioral issues.

Dogs may bark incessantly for any number of reasons, including inadequate social and physical stimulation, fear, anxiety or aggression. Debarking an aggressive animal is dangerous as the dog's bark is no longer able to warn its potential victim.

Usually when people come to K-State's Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital with a nuisance-barking dog, they are looking for a "quick fix." Many who request debarking either live in an apartment, are breeders with many dogs or have dogs whose barking has become a problem with neighbors.

We try to educate the pet owners regarding the debarking procedure and causes for barking. Dog owners need to understand that a debarked dog may be silent or have a low, hoarse bark, which sometimes is more annoying than the original barking. We attempt to identify the underlying factors that are contributing to the dog's bark and make appropriate recommendations for resolving the issue.

Recently, some animal advocates have asserted this surgery is cruel to the animal; some countries have even outlawed the procedure. I do not believe the surgical procedure is cruel; however, failing to address the underlying factors is inappropriate.



Debarking, or bark softening, saves lives and helps neighbor relations

By Charlotte Clem McGowan, a dog show judge for the American Kennel Club and author of "The Shetland Sheepdog in America." She has been a hobby dog breeder for more than 40 years.

I have debarked dogs for decades. Debarking has made it possible to keep my dogs in a residential neighborhood and be a good neighbor. A skilled surgeon can debark a dog in a very simple procedure using an adenoid punch to make a tiny hole in each vocal chord. This method is virtually bloodless. The dog recovers quickly and is not stressed by the surgery. The dog will not be silent, but his bark will be reduced in pitch and volume.

Breeds like shelties were used to keep livestock out of gardens, to keep birds of prey from taking lambs and as guards and alarms. They are very, very talkative. Shelties bark for all kinds of reasons, including joy. They also bark with a generally high-pitched, piercing bark that can be extremely annoying. Debarking takes them from annoying to manageable. Since shelties, by nature, will bark at birds and squirrels and while playing and having fun, keeping shelties in any number larger than one is difficult.

Veterinarians provide a valuable service with debarking. A dog that can bark at squirrels and while playing without being constantly disciplined is a happy dog. The urge to bark does not diminish, but the noise level does. The chief reason shelties are dumped in shelters is barking. Sheltie rescuers can easily re-home these dogs when they are debarked. So debarking saves lives.

While some people believe you can train any dog not to bark, I know from 40 years of extensive experience with shelties that this is not true. Some dogs just bark to bark.

While I can see why some do debark I don't do it because I do happen to have good neighbors with bigger dogs that bark more so my little ones are quieter in comparsion but I do know some with nasty neighbors and it's a situtation where these people just can't move out of their home...so just because they can't move and have nasty neighbors they shouldn't have a dog? Again, some just don't know the reason or situtation as to why some would debark. People are just not forgiving towards animals as they are children....that is the exception to the rule for me because I'd rather live next door to barking dogs than screaming kids....get them a muzzle!
Donna

I own a beagle, sheltie, toy poodle and a yorkie poodle mix. All 4 of those breeds are or have been considered "nonstop barkers". Not one of my dogs are excessive barkers.. do they bark when they see something in the yard, strange car comes in the driveway, strange person at the door, or when playing.. absoutley.. however I have TRAINED them to stop when I say so. Simple as that.. If you know the breed your are buying can be or is considered an excessive barker then why would you buy that kind of dog??

for me,, there is no right way to debark.. its sick, its cruel, and its sad!!!!!
whats wrong with these people... If you cant handle the barking, dont get a dog!!!!!! I would never ever buy from that breeder either..i'd like to smack her instead.

My parents have a neighbor who has a little white dog, about 10lbs who somtimes bark when she is gone. This woman's other neighbors moved in about 2months ago and have called animal control 3times:( She is a good responsible dog owner and a firstime homeowner(in a down marked so cannot sell) She too is a loss as to what to do. She had had a trainer out many times to help and the barking is controlled completely while she is there but when she is gone the little dog still barks. She is considering debarking as a last result durring the next teeth cleaning. She has already tried a spray collar and refuses to use a shock collar. I can see where in the right circumstance it would be a last result option for some. It would not be an option for me EVER but I can step outside of my little world and see where for some it is an option.

To OP I would ask this breeder about it, along with many other questions, or just move on, there are other good breeders out there.

I think it's cruel and it's sad!! Poor little doggies!

I totally agree but again, I do understand if and when it has to be done to be able to keep one at home due to nasty neighbors ect....

Donna Bird
Brooklynn Yorkshire Terriers

O my.. its there god given voice!!... I think that if they have neighbors that dont like the barking then its time to move or start putting time and patience in training, as a breeder thats going to make money off of these animals they can atleast make adjustments in there own lives for the comfort of an animal that PAYS the bills. I still dont think its fair for the dog why cant the dog be rehomed to a place where barking isnt the end of the world!

Sorry Donna Bird
 

But you're out voted on this issue. And yes parents of children that cry too much are often visited by children's social service and do get put in jail when the reason for the excessive crying is found to be abuse......

Better to train the puppies not to bark than debark.

And yes I don't know anything about you until today as probably many other Yorkie Talk members but now we do and personally I would never buy a puppy from you from just the few posts you have made today...........

I will take all the puppies you have off your hands for free that you want to debark though.

Whoa! That's a bit uncalled for! I'm definitely in the majority group who think de-barking is cruel and would never condone or support doing it. Which is exactly what Donna has said repeatedly. She has not done, will not do it, does not condone it - what part of any of this are you not getting?

I just want to add that I don't know Donna. I'm not sure I've ever even had a conversation with her in a thread. I do know she doesn't deserve what you just said to her.

The REALLY sad thing is that de-barking isn't always done by a vet. Puppy mills have utilized a particularly cruel and crude method of debarking dogs by ramming a metal pipe down the dogs throat. :(

Of course it is cruel. There is no NEED for this to be performed ever.

Ok, I'm trying to figure out what the difference of debarking and docking is? Both seem unnecessary and painful to me. Docking seems to be at this point more exceptable. Why??

Why do some have no problem having yorkies with docked tails but are against debarking? They say a dog that is debarked does not feel pain after a few days, I would think it would be the same as docking.

I believe what Donna said was that she personally would not and does not debark.

But,on an individual level, if a person is desperate .. . . or about to be evicted from their apartment . .. then sometimes desperate measures are called for and perhaps we should not be so judgemental about those circumstances.

I remember how I panicked when I moved into a new apartment complex in a new state. Came home from my first day on the new job to a note on my door to "Please stop the barking". (This was with my maltese). I was so upset; it was just because he was in a new place; and I could not miss work on my first days. But, believe me, neighbors did NOT care. I called my Vet and he prescribed some sedatives for a few days. Luckily that did the trick . .and Casper became comfortable in his new digs; but what if it hadn't?

As it turned out, those same unkind neighbors soon had TWO LARGE BARKING dogs cooped up in their apartment a few months later.

I was so mad.

But I remember how scared I was when I got that note . . . thinking that I would have to get rid of Casper or try and find a new place . . on my own with no help . . . what am I going to do, what am I going to do . . . well, you get the picture.

I heard a dog that had been de-barked and the sound it made was very annoying. I just don't think it is right.

You're right, Donna didn't deserve that comment!

At one time, I would have said "never debark", but after a thread here on YT some time back, my opinion was changed. The situation was an elderly woman and her long time companion dog with a barking problem. The woman was moving into a retirement center and the ONLY way she could keep her dog, was to have her debarked.

Now I think the greater crime here, would have been for that woman and her precious dog to be separated from each other.

Who here, could tell their own Grandmother, that "Too bad Grannie, your little dog barks too much - you go live in the senior citizens home and we'll give your life-long companion over to a stranger!" :confused:

The old adage comes to mind........ "never say, never".

I personally have an issue with both. I think docking is completely pointless and unnecessary in today's world.

Brooklyn... I agree with everything you have said, on this thread! We may be out numbered, but I agree with you.

I don't think the OP said that the puppys were de-barked (or did I miss something??)

I own 2 de-barked dogs, I DID NOT HAVE IT DONE... NOR WOULD I!!!! They both bark, quietly, but are learning not to, bark, if I ask then to stop. They are not so quiet, that I could sleep through it, but quiet enough I can ignore it, if necessary.

I think the reason some breeders de-bark (the reason these 2 were done) is when one dog barks... they all start, whether there is a good reason or not.

So Donna, you aren't alone...

I remember when I felt the same way a lot of people here feel until I went into rescue and realized I would rather see a dog debarked by a qualified vet then be given up by its owner for barking and destroyed. I remember when my rescue mentor said the same thing about debarking and spay/neuter and docking/cropping. It put things in a little better light for me.

I will say I do not agree with breeders who debark because the noise bothers them....my feelings are they should go find another hobby. Somewhere some of these breeders stop loving their dogs and the dogs become their ego's in the show ring. Many breeders who debark have their dogs live in dog rooms in cages also. I feel you have to take the good and the bad with dogs if this is your passion.

This is not a simple yes or no answer to me.

First of all, I wouldn't place or give you a puppy! I'm not here to make friends as I really don't care if you or anyone else has a change of heart regarding me. I'm not into showing or breeding to make friends. I don't debark so I'm really not worried who likes me or not :) I am entitled to my opinion and I'll give it whether or not YOU like it or not!
If you don't like my posts then dont' read them plain and simple. Better yet why don't you put me on ignore so you won't have to read anything I post :) That I could really live with better :)

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

First of all Thank you :) While I do NOT de-bark I do know some that do only because of the housing situtation and NO they don't live in cages they have run of the house. These are done while they are having a dental and do NOT feel any pain...and yes I believe docking is more painful than the vocal cords especially if it's done when they are under for the dental no pain.
But Thank you for your kindness :)

Donna