Help the clicker made it worse!!!
 

That's one of the reasons I don't care for the clicker method. You always have to carry the clicker with you. I use the word "YES" instead of the click; I also use the word "UH-UH" to mean that behavior won't get a reward. It's good to have both words, because I find I can communicate with him better. You could carry the clicker around your neck, and you could also gradually substitute the word yes for the click. To do this say the word "Yes" then click immediately afterwards, and give treat. Soon he'll be salivating when he hears "YES".

Smarty pants
You need to get him on random reinfocrment fast.
So at first you did ono request one click one treat now you do two request one click one treat. then once he gets wise chage it up again go three request to one and then back to one on one.
What you want him to learn quicl is that he never knows when that click and treat will come but as long as he keeps working it will.
Than fade the clicker right out until you use it once and a while.

JL

ok I will try this I haven't use the clicker but today when I was training he wasn't listening until he seen me get the clicker what do you make of that?

I call it he knows when it is time to go to work.
he pulls he head in the game and gets at it.
Which is not a bad thing.
Mine can pull amazing focus when it is work time and she knows there is a pay cheque in the way.
What needs to happen is the random stuff so he does not know when the pay is coming.
Not sure you said how old he is or not.
I am also wondering if a little focus work may help. A little protocol for relaxation maybe or some control unleash stuff,

Also go have a look at Clicker solutions web site and have a read on beginning clicker to maybe helpful.
Let me know if you need more help feel free to PM.
I get to my email more then here so will see a pm and come.

JL

Just to clear up some errors in Clicker training that are around a clicker is a means to an end and a tool that should not have to be carried with you 24/7 if it is used in the right manner.
Use of words while ok is actually slower and less likely to mark the action you want as a click is faster then a voice.
Now working aggression I use words as I am working a moving dog after a trigger and it is one less thing to deal with. Shaping an sit, down or trick I use a clicker and it can go very fast.
No reward markers as if no or uh are only bringing notice to that which you do not want and increases the chance it will happen again.
We as human seen to need to talk to much if we are quiet and let the animal we are working with be it tiger ,dog horse whale or goat it will figure out how to get it to click.
My one dog is on clicker and I rarely get it out now but when I do she very happy as she knows it play time..ok mom what you want me to do to ge that to click today. But now we are well past random work on sit or down she knows she to do it even if I do not have a treat as she will get told good girl or get a pat or a ball or not even anything that time but maybe the next.
It is a miss understanding or lack of knowledge of how to actually use a clicker if one is carrying one around all the time.
If you use treats all the time whether it is clicker or lure training passed early learning stage it bribery not training.

JL

He will be 1 yrs old next month but I'm wondering should I just take him to a class because at first he was listening just fine until I used the clicker or should I start over from scratch? I taught him to sit paw stay without clicker but with clicker I taught him to drop it and was trying lay but I still can't get him to lay anyway what I'm trying to say is if I say drop it he won't unless he thinks or see the clicker how do I fix it?

If you figure out how to get him to lay please share!
Kaji hasn't learned anything other than sit. He does "dance" but only if he's fighting Danger (my roommate's dog) for the treat. Oh well, I'll keep trying!!!!

If you can find a really good starter clicker class to go to it would help you both.
You can work on you timing and he can watch the other dogs.
But it not have you read anything like Click for joy by Melissa alexander. ( she is the lead person at clicker solutions)
Really easy read and funny as all get out. If you have a clicker question it will have the answer.

JL

I believe in the clicker method - but just like Nancy - I don't use a clicker. I use two key words - "yes" and "wrong".

Yes - marks the good behavior and a treat will follow. Sometimes she gets one, sometimes she gets more and sometimes she gets a "dip" (a/k/a the mother load!)

Wrong - marks the bad behavior (not doing as I asked) - no treat.

I do this because my voice is more convenient then a clicker. Good luck!

If Kaji already know sit, then lay is is easy! After he sits, give a treat, then say "lay" or "down" or whatever you want and put the treat in front of his nose and have him watch you pull it downwards to the ground. The only way he's gonna get the treat is if he lays down. Then treat when his elbows hit the ground. Sometimes you can try this on a chair too, so you can lower the treat even lower than you could if he was just on the ground.

Uni doesn't like the sound the clicker makes. Neither does my bf LOL. Nesha, are you gonna have a bday party for Denzel?

A chair! What a great idea!!!
Usually I get him in a sit then put the treat to his nose and make him follow it down, but that for some reason makes his butt go up in the air so he ends up in a play stance. :rolleyes: Silly boy! I'll try a chair, it might be just what we need to mix things up.

I'll go to his bday party!!! Or should I say, I'll take Kaji. :D

Well since we missed Kaji's 1st bday, seeing as how that was the day you got him... we need to go to someones party around here! Uni's 3rd is in Feb!

Hey your bday is this weekend right? Don't forget pics! My fave is the pirate island (the old Tom Sawyer island) and of course the Pirates ride! We are going to a pirate fest on Sat. Hope to see you at the meetup on Sun! I think Nesha and Denzel are a maybe.:D

In clicker you never put the word before you have taught the action and they offer the behaviour. Dogs do not come knowing that down means belly on the ground so you teach it first then name it.

Another way to do it is to sit on the ground. Legs out straight. raise one leg. Lure dog under the raiseed leg and as the belly hits the ground under the lag click and treat. that is actually lure training not cliker but it works.
Actul clicker would be to shape the down with out any comment at all. And if you youtube look up Miranda Bouque and she teaches a clicker down to izzy.

JL

hi all
 

i love this site all the differant opinions .i get so much info of here .with clicker traing sometimes you wait for them to do the behavior then you click them ,like when you see you furbaby about to lie down on the couch say down and then click ,i have found this works really well.i also own a rottweiler who with clicker trainig he can sit ,paw ,lay down ,speak ,shut door ,open door ,get washing out of washer ,pick things up of the floor when i ask him to ,heel but my bullmastiff just looks at me like to say stop that annoying noise .i introduced the clicker to my 8 week old furbaby tutts yesterday and she seemed to like it but we will see what works with one dont work with another good luck

Great vid but it raises more questions than it answers. I've only seen about 2 mins of the video and it is my understanding that you only click to signal the correct behavior, similar to saying "yes" when they do what you ask of them. Both yes and the click serve as markers. In her video, she clicks and then Izzy sits. Izzy walks away and then sits, and right when she gets up the lady clicks. Then she has to call Izzy back and tells her to "get back to work". Shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't she be clicking a sit stay rather than Izzy getting distracted? Isn't the clicking marking the incorrect behavior?
Not trying to criticize, just trying to understand. Going to finish watching the vid.

I agree with you, and I wasn't clear what she was actually trying to mark. Sometimes it almost seemed like she was using the click to say "sit." instead of "Yes". The problem with that is the next time she uses the click, the dog will just think she wants it to sit. You don't always have to reward the mark, but you should always mark the behavior, you want.

Here is the clicker website that really is wonderful if you are training using this method. I have it set up that I get daily emails from them even though I don't use it I am all for positive training and I believe they do a great job. I like reading their ideas.:thumbup:

ClickerSolutions Home

I don't know if I have just been lucky, but typically once I have taught a behavior I don't have to use the clicker anymore as a "good girl" can work in its place. When I do mini training sessions at home, I do try to use the clicker as I think it is the fastest way to shape new behaviors.

I think maybe you should just start over training Denzel from scratch, but I am sure he will be very quick to pick up the behaviors you have previously taught him.

When in college, before I had my girls, I had a bullmastiff that I clicker trained. He was the family dog that didn't come to live with me until about age 5, but I managed to teach him quite a few things.

Here are some videos of me using the clicker with him:



I, too, had a hard time understanding what behaviors were being rewarded in the video with Izzy. I should say I was a psychology major, and one of the things I did in my Behaviorism class was train animals at the zoo using positive reinforcement/clickers. :) I think it does help to have a basic understanding of how clicker training works before you start. Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor is an easy read that I think does a pretty good job of explaining things.

Ok, I watched the whole thing, she's been trying to teach to lie down, I think. Wow, did that take a long time. The dog did lie down at the end of training, and got a large amount of food for it, along with much excitability and praise, I think her final click was before the dog was in the prone position, and she should have clicked also when the dog was in the exact position she wanted. I don't think the dog has learned to lie down on command though. I'm not sure if getting that much food for producing the desired behavior is a good idea either. Seems like training could end at that point. I think you could get much faster results if you take advantage of using your hands, dogs really pay attention to hand signals, more than words. I mean it isn't clear if the dog learn to lie down in step by step marking getting closer to target behavior or was simply tired and lied down. It does seem to me if you don't use the clicker correctly you could really confuse the dog, so practicing without the dog, maybe on a person, might be a good idea.

Sorry but I just got a visual...don't try this on your dog try it on your husband first.:p

LOL! That's not a bad idea! Maybe I could learn to be more coordinated with my clicks!

Izzy is being shaped to a lay down not sit at all.
So what she is looking for is a lowering of hte head to the grow and toward down not the sit motion at all.
Watch the head not the bottom.

JL

Aww but it works on those pesky huddies and kids just great and then look at you and all of a sudden they know you got them every so nicely right where you want them without any fuss or muss.

JL

One quick comment she click just before the lay down prone as it was the next step to shape to but the dog went down all the way thus the party after ward. The dog clued into what she wanted which was belly on the ground.
Actually that was very fast for a dog just new to clicker and with no lure at all.

This lady and her name, Dr Bourque, is on the video and she works with tigers, and giraffes and hippos and not sure what else. She does it all hands off. Her timing is one of the best there is. I wish I had her eye and timing.

JL

I am unsure how small/short your dog is but you want to take the treat all the way down to the floor so that he/she has to lay down to try and get it. At first they might just put their head down, but i also guided her bottom and eventually she started laying down. It's good to have a finger signal too along w/ the word. Hopes this helps

I will try it in a chair I already tried to put the treat to his nose and then drag it but he just follows the treat hmmm this lay down has definitely been the hardest. I also think I may have confused him because when I go to bed I tell him nite nite denzel and he either goes to his bed and lay down or let's me know that he wants to sleep with me do you think that causes conflict with lay down method?

I don't know because I don't know where to even throw a bray party haha only thing I schedule for his bday so far is his grooming appt. so I'm not really sure