Originally Posted by ARCHIE (Post 2743186)

Bottom line - I like some of his methods, I have employed many and they have worked for me. The methods I don't think will work for me, I discard. I think he is very cute and I would love to hear his accent
__________________


Why Cindy you little devil you.:p

I totally agree. (even about him being cute)

Originally Posted by chattiesmom (Post 2743179)

One of the most important things I learned about training my dogs came from a well known horse trainer. I am the best trainer for MY dogs. Any time I am within sight, smell, or hearing distance of my dog he/she is learning from me. It is my responsibility to make each moment a positive one.

With that said, I believe that I can learn from EVERYONE. Not just fancy schmancy "trainers", but from each one of you. We all have had different experiences and I can learn do's and don'ts from all.

As for Ceasar -- I loved his book, but since I don't have TV and the sound on my 'puter doesn't work I haven't seen any of his episodes. I have found that I don't agree with everything any trainer has to say, I glean what I think will work for me and discard the rest. I do like the idea of seeing that the dogs are exercised enough to be tired in the evening and that they aren't bored. I truly believe that a lot of behavorial problems stem from bored dogs with too much "time on their hands". All of our kids need a job to do.

With that said, I don't believe in running one to death, but some dogs may NEED and ENJOY a daily 6 or 7 hour daily run. I know my Irish Setter would run with me when I rode my horse cross country and sometimes those rides were 5 or 6 hours (:D back in my single days).

I don't know anything first hand about Cesar - I have never talked to him in person and I haven't worked with him as a trainer - so I don't have enough information to comment on his specific methods. I don't take third party comments about people as the gospel truth. Remember his TV shows are edited and so are his books..... so what we are forming an opinion on isn't necessarily the entire picture.

Bottom line - I like some of his methods, I have employed many and they have worked for me. The methods I don't think will work for me, I discard. I think he is very cute and I would love to hear his accent :D

Originally Posted by sdnylz (Post 2743819)

Why anybody that is successful always gets a lot of criticism?

Dogs have to know who's boss otherwise they want to become the boss.

I don't think Cesar is abusing the dogs. Usually the dogs he deals with are very aggresive, spoiled rottens by us humans.and after he is done they love him!

let me put it this way, when we humans are out of control and do wrong things, we are send to jail, or a judge made us do community service to brings us down to a "submissive state of mind" (using cesar's words lol). or we are taken to a hospital for crazy people and you could be place in an isolated room. Othertimes, we are taken to a doctor that sometimes prescribe meds to makes us submissive. the point is nobody thinks this is abusive, we deserve it or it has to be done because we have been "bad".

why is it abusive when extreme methods are use on a extreme behaving dog?

Originally Posted by sdnylz (Post 2743819)

Why anybody that is successful always gets a lot of criticism?

Dogs have to know who's boss otherwise they want to become the boss.

I don't think Cesar is abusing the dogs. Usually the dogs he deals with are very aggresive, spoiled rottens by us humans.and after he is done they love him!

let me put it this way, when we humans are out of control and do wrong things, we are send to jail, or a judge made us do community service to brings us down to a "submissive state of mind" (using cesar's words lol). or we are taken to a hospital for crazy people and you could be place in an isolated room. Othertimes, we are taken to a doctor that sometimes prescribe meds to makes us submissive. the point is nobody thinks this is abusive, we deserve it or it has to be done because we have been "bad".

why is it abusive when extreme methods are use on a extreme behaving dog?

Originally Posted by JoeyP (Post 2739022)

This debate goes along with the whole dominance is good or bad debate
Cesar Milan is an advocate and a leader in .... when training a dog you must be viewed as a pack leader and therefore dominant

and as much as you want to believe that your dogs are human and dress them up and talk to them
I have news ..... they ARE dogs
and they will behave like dogs and have instinctual and situational behaviors like dogs

Is positive training worthwhile? Absolutely
But it doesn't negate the fact that you MUST be viewed as the leader for your dog

Now some dogs automatically see their owner as a leader and there doesn't need to be any special training in those cases
But when a dog Doesn't see you as a leader that's when behavioral problems occur
and can lead to aggression
can lead to confusion and timidity
and a whole host of other issues

I have never seen cesar abuse any of his dogs and I'd be the first to call him on it
but the use of dominance training is a useful and needed training device
in any household with a dog

Originally Posted by ARCHIE (Post 2743123)

Obviously you have a thing for Ceaser and think only your methods
are the correct methods. If it works for you great but Ceaser is Ceaser
and I have total respect for him because I know his methods work.
I have been using them on a Yorkie for 2yrs and know for a fact, if
followed daily, yes they do work.
Good luck to you in your training, however, I must say I don't think
it professional of you to knock another trainer's methods especially
when he is world known for his accomplishments and has saved
countless dog's from death.
Done on this subject.

Originally Posted by QuickSilver (Post 2743212)

YorkieMother, I respect your experience and knowledge very much, but sometimes your posts do come off very strong and somewhat belittling to people who have different opinions. I think if you softened your language, people might be more open to different methods, which is your ultimate goal, right? Just a suggestion. :)

Originally Posted by YorkieMother (Post 2746174)

I tried last night to post this but a nice little summer strom got in the way.




Quicksilver although I quote you to start this is not directed at you just trying to shorten up the posting time for me. Thanks for the I respect thing, Thank you.

So again as I may have quoted you at the start of this post this is a finishing general comment to the thread and directed in total to you.

While I do understand what you are saying. It is next to impossible for me to take it down anymore or it will turn into mush. I not sure how to soft petal it anymore then I am.

It to me is like someone telling me after all these years that they bought their dog from a pet store and they did not know it was a mill dog.

I do wonder what rock they have hide under. Believe me it happened this weekend and I had to leave the room.

With this fellow it has been going on since the day he rolled onto TV and he is still around cause well he is cute and he makes for dramatic reality TV.

I not out to change the world or get him off TV but if one person reads this and thinks hard and goes a different way from him. I've done what I set out to do.
One will ripple to another to another to another and one day just like puppy mills are going out of business he will too.

While I understand I get laughed at or beat on I also understand that it is part and parcel of making change and others coming to a better understanding. What one does not know or understand or may make you feel uncomfortable or in the wrong means the messenger carrying that info gets beat on do to ones discomfort with the info.( I am not saying that you beat on me I am saying in general) I am ok with that.

Example the person that first said the earth is round
That puppy mills are bad.
That the biewer breed will be a breed.
That wolves are not pack animals.
That women should vote and should be equal.
That slaver is wrong.
That beating your child is wrong...why the SPCA came about in the first place was to stop child abuse ( yes I know it still happens but back then children where owned).... they all got beat on and look things changed.

For me it is truly one dog at a time. One owner at time.

If many in the board want to laugh go right ahead and do so, but humbly that is it in a nut shell. For me it is not ok to hurt a dog in the name of training and doing so is not anything less then abuse. Just cause we can make a dog do something does not mean we have the right to do so or should. Does not mean we let them run wild either we can control without force.


JL

Originally Posted by Britster (Post 2746290)

Yeah but you're whole idea goes right out the window for one important reason... he doesn't abuse or hurt dogs. The end.

Originally Posted by capt_noonie (Post 2738147)

:eek: Who the heck said Cesar abuses his dogs?!!! That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!

I think most of the time people have no choice but to call Cesar b/c THEY are the ones mentally scarring their dogs, that's why they have behaviour problems.

Originally Posted by YorkieMother (Post 2743107)

Actually what you seeing is a cooking show for dogs. It takes more then one day to do what he does it is edited down to a 1/2 hour show that makes it look simple and easy.

As for working and living with an aggressive dog how does 7 years of living with an aggressive dog work for you.
I have one that is as bad if not worse then many Ceaser deals with as it is genetic based and chemially made worse aggression and can not be worked in the manner at all that Ceaser does it as she would be dead.

7 Years or hard work with a dog that should have been put down and that methods just like ceasers made far worse.
When I speak training it is from the point of view of keeping a very aggressive fearful anixety dog alive and proventing what happened to her happen to another.
Oh and before you come back and go well it is only one there are others I have helped over the years as well.
I play with the ones that will bite... 5 time biter before the age of a year in one dog. So please do not try and say i do not have a clue.

JL