Originally Posted by Erin (Post 2543480)

Every 3 hours may not be enough. I said that if my dogs don't *ask* to go out and they haven't been out in 2-3 hours I will send them out, even if it means waking them up. They often ask to go out much more often than that. It's 11:15 and they have been out at 7:30, 9:45 (after a nap) and are now asking to go out again at 11:15...

Get a cleaner (I like simple solution, i think it smells better) and clean up the carpets and furniture. Confine or monitor him at all times, taking many potty breaks. Teach him to ring a bell when he needs to go outside. If you do this consistently for a few months, he will figure it out. DO NOT rub his nose in it!

By the way, marking outside does not mean you have to allow marking inside. Loki was neutered at 6 months, before he even learned to lift his leg. He is house trained but he still marks when we go on walks outside. He just pees twice in every yard. Actually, a walk is a good way to housetrain because not only will he pee until he is completely empty, but he will be tired and take a nap for a while so don't have to watch him so closely. As soon as he wakes up, go back outside. If you fall into a pattern like this you will learn when he needs to go. Also, you don't mention if pooping is an issue but if he is fed on a schedule he will poop on a schedule which is very helpful too.

I also agree that you should hire a dog walker. That way you can reinforce training during the day when you are not there and give him a potty break. He will also be a lot less hyper in the evenings if he gets a good walk mid-day.

Finally, you are not going to win the argument of rubbing his face in it - not because we are a bunch of wimpy Yorkie owners, but because it's scientifically unfounded. You never want your dog to be afraid of you. I know you said you have trained other dogs that way, but those dogs probably would have been trained no matter what methods you used. Yorkies take a lot longer to train, although being 18 months old at least you are talking every 2 hours not every 30 minutes! There is no reason to make the dog hate you when other methods are MORE effective.

By the way, what is the dog's name?

Originally Posted by Erin (Post 2543514)

P.S. - Beauty has nothing to do with breeding. Sammy is absolutely beautiful. She also doesn't conform to the standard (she is too long, Yorkie bodies should be a square) and she has grade 3 LP's. If your girlfriend didn't understand that sentence, she should not be breeding her dog. Breeding just to sell puppies is wrong. Did you know that often times Yorkies only have 1 or 2 puppies and vet bells and other expenses (like genetic testing, she will have him tested, won't she? oh and a C-SECTION) can far outpace the "profit" from the puppies.

There are the usual problems that come up, like liver shunt or luxating patellas. There are also rarer genetic conditions. Loki has a genetic disorder that requires medicine that costs $130 A MONTH. For the rest of his life. Is she prepared for something like that?

Also - typically the owner of the FEMALE is the one who sells the puppies. The owner of the male traditionally gets a small stud fee OR pick of the litter. The stud fee *will* be small since your dog is neither a proven "breeder" meaning no one knows what quality his puppies will be, nor is he a champion. You don't have to be on Westminster to be a champion - people who show their dogs attend local competitions to see if their dog measures up to the standard. Someone who has been breeding for a long time can pick out these qualities, but someone who is just a "dog owner" typically cannot. I love both of my dogs and I think they are gorgeous but I would never breed them.

I don't mean to pick on you - SHE is the one pushing this. But you should bring up these issues to see how educated she is on the subject. For example, you say she think she will get $800-$900 a puppy (which she won't, since she owns the male) but what if the female has 2 puppies and needs a C-section, does she know how much that costs? She should call a local vet and ask. More importantly, an owner of a female who will breed to an "unproven" male is likely as uneduated as your girlfriend on the subject, which complicates matters even more. I would strongly encourage you to bring up these issues with her, because perhaps she will re-consider getting your boy neutered which will help tremendously with your problem!

Originally Posted by globemaster (Post 2543744)

I don't view you guys as wimpy Yorkie owners at all. Y'all havegiven me so many wonderful ideas. If fear will help (it already has - he no longer squats right in front of me and I've already adopted the idea of movement restriction) I'll use it or any tactic that doesn't hurt him. I WANT him to be uncomfortable when he goes inside.

As for bell training... I know nothing about it, but would love to know what to read or where to go. I'm open to any ideas at this point, but I think it's all pointless without my girlfrend's help...

Originally Posted by globemaster (Post 2543765)

He is the appropriate size - about 2.5 to 3 pounds. I'm not sure what his exact weight is but he is small and from what she has told me, he's the perfect size. I doubt she's considered the other things, but I'm gonna copy/paste this post and email it to her. It would make things so much easier if shed just have him fixed...

Originally Posted by globemaster (Post 2542591)

Ok... Some of this might be too much info, BUT... I need opinions and feel more comfortable at internet distances...

Things have been going well. Its been a month since he's gone inside on my watch, but I travel with my job and am not always around. We've managed to restrict his movement and the praise/punish system has gone well. I haven't been very physical with him with the accidents, but he gets his face rubbed in it for a LONG time when he messes up. Good behavior is always rewarded with treats EVERY time he waits to go outside.

TONIGHT... I was having some... "intimate" time with my girlfriend and we left him out during. At the end of it during pillow talk, he left a nice little puddle on the floor that I heard and I yelled at him. The scene of the crime was about 10 feet from the bed. He ran away, hid and was visibly scared when I found him, so I've obviously impressed upon him the penalty for peeing on the carpet (a minute or two of face rubbing in pee). It happened about 4 hours AFTER he'd been let out last. Was this a jealousy thing or did we wait too long to take him out and he was in pain?

Thanks for the help and sorry about the unnecessary details!

Originally Posted by Erin (Post 2543768)

I get it - you want him to be afraid of going inside - HOWEVER please buy that training book recommended "The Loved Dog" You are making a common mistake in thinking that dogs understand things the way humans do. Dogs are extremely smart, but they have limited understanding of cause & effect.

The bottom line is that this dog has not been trained to hold it (many Yorkies are not good at this part, they are tiny!) but he has also not been trained to NOTIFY you that he needs to go out. THIS is something I believe all Yorkies can learn.

Bell training is simple - you can buy a bell (google Poochie Bells or TellBell) or you can just hang a jingle bell from a ribbon and tie it to the door. Before taking him out, take his paw or nose and have him ring the bell. Act all happy and immediately open the door and go outside. After a week or so he will be curious to try it out and he will ring the bell himself. IMMEDIATELY RUN to the door and take him outside. Do this a few times and he'll figure it out. See, he probably tried something like this - walking by the door, circling, barking, etc. and was ignored because it was a subtle signal (walking by the door) or an undesirable one (barking). You need to introduce an acceptable and encourageable signal for him to tell you when he needs to go. When I introduced the bell with Loki (my bladder-problem dog) he went from a few accidents a month to NONE. He understood he needed to pee outside - he just didn't know how to ask to be let out (25 times a day, but hey, whatever works!)

Originally Posted by Erin (Post 2543775)

True, his *weight* is good, but there is proportion to consider. How long and tall he is are important too. So is head size and shape and his bite (under/over). There is a LOT to consider. Maybe she has done her homework and maybe he is a show-quality dog from show-quality parents (who often only have pet-quality dogs, so that is not a sole indication he is of breeding quality.) I just want you to ask her these questions, that's all.

Originally Posted by QuickSilver (Post 2543801)

I think it's great that your gf is taking good care of her dog's physical health and appearance. I think it's even better that you are on here doing more research on his training.

Since he is not your dog, I hope you can convince your gf to think about some of these other things. I'm sure she loves her little buddy, and it is not easy to hear criticism about how you care for your animals. It would be great if you can think of an effective approach here, especially since you mentioned that she is digging her heels in.

Maybe lure her into YT with the grooming section - people sell some really cute top knot bows and little boy outfits here. Then she'll absorb all this other info without even realizing it. ;)

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2543791)

You taught him ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about peeing on the floor. he reads you body language and can sense your anger so he runs and hides.

You have taught him to fear you but he still does not know that he is supposed to ask to go outside.

he methods that you are using are failing to convey the message to him.

Try something different and practice patience.

Try using a bell or some other touch method so he knows that when he does "whatever" you will let him out. and stop rubbing his face in it. that doesn't work.

Originally Posted by luvfla (Post 2543902)

How long have you & your girlfriend been together? From what I'm reading it looks like less than 2 months. Is that right?

Originally Posted by luvfla (Post 2543963)

I'm am trying hard to bite my tongue BUT...first 6 months is too early to know if someone is marriage material & second, it sounds like you have spent the majority of that time trying to CHANGE her. Is see control issues all over your posts.

Originally Posted by LauraLove (Post 2544258)

isnt this supposed to be about the dog? not about his marriage choices...my parents got engaged after 6 months and have been together ever since
(almost 30 years). I LOVE yorkie talk but this whole thread has really made me angry not cause of his dog training habits (because we all have what works for us) but because people are not keeping their unnecessary comments to themselves.

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 2544450)

globemaster I certainly hope you dont get married and have children. I would be inclined to think you would be arrested for child abuse. IMO you should give that baby away to someone that will love and take care of him the RIGHT WAY. I would be glad to take him off your hands, atleast he wouldnt have his face rubbed in pee and poop. I truly am just appalled over this thing. Shame on you. You, IMO don't deserve to even own a dog.

Originally Posted by carmengamble (Post 2544509)

I'm sorry but I have to step up and say something. It shows a lot of initiative that globemaster is on YT looking for tips on how to solve this road block him and his significant other are in at the time.

It also shows that he cares about the dog a lot since he replies to the majority of helpful tips and posts from others.

I think it is incredibly rude for you to pass judgment like this. He is looking for help, not looking to get bashed! :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 2544450)

globemaster I certainly hope you dont get married and have children. I would be inclined to think you would be arrested for child abuse. IMO you should give that baby away to someone that will love and take care of him the RIGHT WAY. I would be glad to take him off your hands, atleast he wouldnt have his face rubbed in pee and poop. I truly am just appalled over this thing. Shame on you. You, IMO don't deserve to even own a dog.

Originally Posted by carmengamble (Post 2544503)

Well, I've been reading and reading the entire thread and I have to disagree with your message, LauraLove. In order to fully train the dog, and the dog to fully understand, you have to keep consistent.

If globemaster is taking him out every 3 hours, or confining him, or whatever the plan is and his girlfriend isn't following the plan, then of course the dog isn't going to be trained. He is going to be utterly confused! :confused:

I'm sorry to disagree, but this has a lot to do with their relationship. They need to be on the same page with things in order to train the dog to their liking.

Originally Posted by LauraLove (Post 2544796)

i agree!! poor guy getting bashed on a stupid web site when all he wanted was some advice! I think everyone on here should keep their opinions to themselves! he is in NO way harming the dog and that does not reflect what so ever how he would be with children! i am appalled at the comment about him being a child abuser? what the hell is that!

Originally Posted by luvfla (Post 2543963)

I'm am trying hard to bite my tongue BUT...first 6 months is too early to know if someone is marriage material & second, it sounds like you have spent the majority of that time trying to CHANGE her. Is see control issues all over your posts.

Originally Posted by carmengamble (Post 2544509)

I'm sorry but I have to step up and say something. It shows a lot of initiative that globemaster is on YT looking for tips on how to solve this road block him and his significant other are in at the time.

It also shows that he cares about the dog a lot since he replies to the majority of helpful tips and posts from others.

I think it is incredibly rude for you to pass judgment like this. He is looking for help, not looking to get bashed! :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by globemaster (Post 2544865)

Her apartment still reeks of cat urine.

Originally Posted by Breeze (Post 2544853)

Not harming the dog? What!! Rubbing the dogs face and holding it in his own urine is abuse as well as the negative methods of training the OP has used. Emotional abuse is still abuse. Also the holding the dogs face in it is very dangerous. I am glad the OP is here trying to get help but to say that is he is not harming the dog is just shocking.

Originally Posted by QuickSilver (Post 2544917)

Rubbing your dog's nose in "it" was par for the course until maybe the eighties. I certainly don't recommend it as a training method, but I wouldn't say that everyone who has ever done this is an abuser either.

Originally Posted by carmengamble (Post 2544509)

I'm sorry but I have to step up and say something. It shows a lot of initiative that globemaster is on YT looking for tips on how to solve this road block him and his significant other are in at the time.

It also shows that he cares about the dog a lot since he replies to the majority of helpful tips and posts from others.

I think it is incredibly rude for you to pass judgment like this. He is looking for help, not looking to get bashed! :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 2544952)

This is all I'm going to say about it.....This is a very, VERY poor way to train a dog or any kind of animal. I'm pretty sure your parents didn't shove your face into your waste while you were trying to learn how to use the toilet. Pushing a dog's nose in their own feces is a poor training technique. It often frightens them more than trains them. When we get puppies they are similar to human babies, so would you rub your baby's nose in feces? I would say it is animal abuse. And by doing that it would make your animal think you hate him/her. they wouldn't trust you, and or like you. I, like all of you have my opinion, its just that, my opinion. You say I am bashing him yet you in turn bash me. Pot calling the kettle black.