I'm lost..and so depressed..don't know what to do HELP!!
 

Hi Everyone..

Snickers the love of my life has got me so lost, depressed, and sad, I don't know what to do anymore. Really, he has been 100% potty trained for the last 1.5 months with 1 accident in the house since then (he pee's on duvet a few days ago--my fault!) Snickers is 8 months old and can't seem to hold himself while crated during the day. My husband comes home daily (for the past 3 days) with poop or pee in the crate. The crate is small and Snick is in there from 8:30am-11:30am. Only 3 HOURS!! Generally I come home to pee as well after his 2nd crating from 12:30pm-3:45pm again only 3 hours!! We don't know what to do anymore, Snick is small (3.4lbs) but shouldn't he be able to hold it?? Last month was good, this Mon and Tues were fine, but for the past 3 days he has daily had accidents in crate. He had a UTI in early Feb, and was treated and is fine, so no, it's not a UTI. Could the UTI be back?? Last week, we did try to let him be in the bathroom with babygate and he bombed...pee'd everyday on his bed or on the floor and NEVER on the pad we left. He does not get pads, he is outside trained. We think he has sep. anxiety but can't figure out why he will go in his crate and them have to sit in it. We DID get him from a pet store (prior to being educated.) What can we do?? Maybe the bathroom/babygate last week trail and now back in crate ths week was too much for him?? But he was fine this Mon/Tues!!

I hate the crate to begin with (guilty issues) and now I have more guilt that he might be rebelling that he is in there by peeing/pooping?? I don't think that can be. What about belly bands and keeping him in bathroom again? Or belly bands and crate? Another UTI? I don't think I can afford another vet visit and 300 dollar bill. He does not have UTI symptoms, holds it fine when we are home and ALL night (8+ hours)....I'm lost and almost had a panic attack when my husband told me he pooped again today and how is was all over the crate and even out of the crate!!

Any insight or advise is beyond appreciated....I'm so sad. :(:(:(:(:(:(

Rules of thumb on dogs holding it is like 3 mos 3-4 hours 8 mos. should be able to hold it. I dont like crating myself. Never have never will. I am 100% sold on xpens, I think that's the only way to go. Are you training him to piddle pads or to go outside? I have my 4 inside dogs trained to pee pads, and love it. I would suggest leaving a radio or tv on for him. People have always said they won't use the bathroom in their crates, which I find is not always true either, as I had tried one pup in a crate a few years back, and they peed/pooped in it everytime. Please try the radio or tv and check in to the xpen. If you lived closer to SC, I would give you my xpen as I have no more use for it.

Thank you so much for your response. We did try Snick in the bathroom with a babygate last week and like I said, he bombed. That would be the equivalent of an X-pen I think. We kept his bed, pee pad, toys, etc in there with him and he had accidents 3 out of 5 days we tried it. He won't use the pad, would just pee in his bed. We think he freaks out when we leave and just stays in one spot and worries until we get home, and ends up peeing there out of worry. I don't know....Thats why he is back in the crate but now pottying in the crate for the past 3 days.

Vivian Im sooooooooooooo sorry I know how furstrating it can be... I would leave the tv or radio on because it sounds like he has a bit of seperation anxiety... I could be wrong but thats jmo ;) the only thing that I have heard for helping with seperation anxiety is agility classes... Im not sure if that is something you can do... I would look into it... ;) good luck! and it will get better ;)

I don't bellieve in crates either. First off take him back or another test to see if he is clear of infection. Next, I also suggest checking into the ex-pens. The metal ones are the strongest and you only need it to be 2 ft. high.

Phfgkl.........keep the ex-pen. You just don't realize how handy those things really are. You can take it on outings, traveling, pic-nic's, camping, put around something you don't want her getting into, use as a gate at any inside door way, put around the inside front door so she can't get out and so on. I have two metal ones we take everywhere. They are the best investments yet!!

LOL We have 2 gates up in the kitchen, and have 2 more for back ups, just incase. We also have a huge cage if need be. I know I'll really honestly never need it again

Have you tried
 

putting a kong in with him with peanut butter or some treat he likes to give him something to focus on other than you leaving?

It sounds like Snickers might have separation anxiety. Many dogs pee and poop from anxiety.

If a dog doesn't want you to leave, it will act out most strongly just after you've left. He is probably pooping within minutes of your departure.

I would try training him out of his separation anxiety first, and then address the potty training. There are a lot of threads here on how to reduce your dog's separation anxiety. Basically, you leave and then come back immediately until he seems okay with that. Then you leave for one minute, then two, then five, then start mixing it up a bit.

Good luck! Let us know if this helps any.

I'll have to agree with Quicksilver on this one, and add something as well. How much do you exercise your dog? If he is exhausted (or at least kinda tired) from a nice long walk you do together in the morning, he will be more likely to be happy to sleep in his crate when you leave, instead of freaking out and losing control of his bladder.

We crate Nikko occasionally for an hour or two during the day, either for us to go to the grocery or get some work done in the shop. We also have a baby monitor type thing. On days where we have already taken him for a walk and worn him out a bit, he only cries for us for about 5 minutes after we crate him, then sleeps happily for a minumum of one hour, often two or more. Lately though, since he's just been neutered and we can't exercise him, he has whined and yipped in his crate for 30-45 minutes before he quiets down... and then the whining and yipping starts back up another half hour after that. We've decided to do our best to avoid crating him until we can give him the exercise he needs again.

Lauren & Nikko

Thank you so much for responding everyone!! We have desensitized Snick many times, by getting keys out, opening/closing garage door, putting coats and then not leaving, leaving coming back etc. There are days he is fine, and days he is stressed. On Fri night we went out and tried something new. We left him in the hallway this time w/ the babygate and a belly band on and a radio on and he did perfect. We were gone for about 3 hours. He will not go pee if he has a band on. (knock on wood) I also really think he being able to see out into the walkway we would come through was helpful to him. His crate is in our main room, but he can't see us come in, can only hear. I don't know...maybe that helps?? We are going to try again with the hallway tomorrow. My poor husband says he cannot clean up another messy crate...poor guy and poor Snick!! He did great over the weekend as well. I'll let you all know how tomorrow goes...I REALLY hope it works so we can do away with the crate once and for all!!!!!!!!

Thank again...REALLY!!!!
Smiles....

LOL I think I suggested a radio or television, as my sons yorkie had problems with anxiety when my son and his fiance would leave, so they did the radio and it worked like a charm. So glad it worked. i would still try the xpen though so you can keep the belly band off, just keep the radio or tv on so they hear voices and don't feel so alone

Potty problems
 

Next time you take him to the vet to be checked for UTI, also have him checked for diabetes. That can cause a lot of peeing in a short period of time.

If it is separation anxiety, you might also want to leave a piece of your clothing behind (that you don't mind getting chewed or dirty!) in the crate for him. I crate trained Baxter, actually still am, and he has never to this day peed or pooped in his crate. I always try and leave a chew toy and/or a piece of my clothing. I heard/read somewhere that they like the scent.

Good luck though! :thumbup:

Thanks everyone....we always leave things that smell like us as well as a kong with PB in it. He could careless about the kong and will wait for us to come home and then fetch it and lick it.

Also, I am not sure how keeping Snick in the hallway with a babygate is different from keeping him in an X-pen?? If there is a sig difference, please let me know. Our hallway is about 4ftx5ft, we only keep Snick in that section of it. We keep toys and his bed with him. Snick does not understand potty pads as he outside trained.

We have been dealing with Sep Anxiety for a while. Like I said, some days awesome, some days sad. I might look into getting that plug in thing which releases phermones to calm him. The vet mentioned it.

Where can I find agility classes?? I don't think Petsmart does those.

Snick is from a petstore (yes-we were idiots) and we think he might just have pottying in his crate instilled in him from his mill/petstore days. IS this possible....

:(:(:(:( Let's all hope he had a good day....my lil babyboy!!!

Hope your baby is doing better. i have my dog trained to go outside and on pee pads. i had to get the spray to make her use them. they think another dog went there. My dog is a girl but she still marks. And she is never left at home without the tv on. she watches it. Yorkies are very smart dogs. Sometimes to smart. I have heard some say it can take 2 years or more to train them. sophie is 2 1/2 she only pees when some new cames over. I was a long time to get her trained.

It did not work...he pee'd & poop'd this morning. I just don't know what to do so for this afternoon he is back in his crate. My husband did not leave the radio on, I asked him to for the afternoon. My heart is in my stomach...I just don't know what to do. I know he does not have a UTI, he is 100% when we are at home. I'm sad....this is heartbreaking. Could the radip/TV on be the solution?? I pray it is....

Separation anxiety can be extremely difficult to extinguish. Have you tried extending the intervals you're leaving? Five minutes, ten minutes, thirty?

Is there anything different on the days when he's calm vs. the days he's nervous? What about LL's suggestion to get him more exercise?

I'm wondering if you could find a cheap doggy daycare? I don't know if this would help with separation anxiety, but at least you wouldn't come home to a mess.

This is to FashionLady

I want to train Jackson to go outside as well as the pee pads can you give me some direction on how to begin this process? Currently we only do the pads and he starting to get it, he will be 4 months on the march 14

The thing I like about the xpen, is he will go through that chewing stage, and if he's in the hall, I'm sure your molding will most likely be chewed on. I know my 9 mo old is going through another chewing stage.:(

I'm not great with training but with sep. anxiety, the desensitizing thing is the best way to start. Since it didn't work, I have no advice.

However, if this was my pup, I would go back to the vet immediately to recheck the urine. It shouldn't cost $300 for a UTI though. It sounds like the vet sent the urine for culture which is fine but maybe just start with a urinalysis this time? Unfortunately, urinary problems/frequent UTIs/stones are common in Yorkies and can be related to liver problems. Your vet may want to check for stones.

I am gonna try the DAP Comfort Zone plug in. Seems like it has good reviews and is safe for dogs. PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU HAVE HEARD ANYTHING HORRIBLE ABOUT THIS PRODUCT OR ANYTHING GOOD ABOUT IT TOO!!!!!

You all are the best...will keep you posted...

Thankfully Snick only chews on this toys and of course socks:).
I love him...and am so worried.

The plug in didn't work....big surprise. :( We are going back to basics. Crate training while we are home not just when we leave. This is breaking me. I feel so guilty, like I am hurting my puppybaby. I can't help feel this way, that I am harming another life. I know it's not that deep (maybe it is) but this is beyond difficult and it's breaking my heart. He is so attached to us. He is too young to be out of his crate I guess (thats what some other people have told me) but the fact that he messes his crate and then has to sit in it makes me feel like crap.....

Pack Leader
 

I'm not an expert either, but I have to tell you that watching Cesar Milan's program, tapes and reading his book has helped me tremendously. In a nutshell, he says that separation anxiety is mostly due to the dog being confused about who the pack leader is. The dog most likely senses both yours and your husbands anxiety and has assumed the un-wanted role of pack leader. If you say he can hold it for 8 hours at night - he should be able to hold it when you go to work. Cesar also says the good thing about dogs is they live in the here and now. If he passes the vet inspection of not having a UTI, I would look into re-establishing your pack leader role. I too got my puppy from a pet store.... but as soon as I practiced Cesar's methods of being the pack leader - it was like a miracle. There are some simple basic things you can do (check out his show, books, or website) - but if a dog senses your energy as anxiety they see it as a weakness and assume the pack leader role and a pack leader must always protect the pack - therefore when you and your husband leave the home (pack) he can not protect you and therefore has separation anxiety. It's dog psychology.

Thank you so much Gigi485, would you be so kind to let me in on some of those simple things you do?? This afternoon was good for Snick...no accidents in crate. :) We were so happy, hopefully the rest of the week will improve. I just want my lil guy back. Also, can you recommend which book/DVD is the best and that you liked most. I was going to order McConnell's "I'll be home soon' book as well.

Things were not good this morning. Snickers is acting so weird. He seems to be scared to go outside now and won't poop in the morning anymore. I stand there and make him stay outside, he just wants to run back in and can only get him to squirt out a tiny poop, I know he has more in there. It all seems to come out after we leave and he stresses. We free feed him in the evening, maybe I need to pick it up earlier than 7:30pm so he can digest and want to go in the morning. I also think he is scared of the dark, I went to take him on a short walk last night to see if he would poop and I had to pratically drag him. It was wet though, I don't know. I leave him with his dad when I go to work and my husband just told me he would not pee for him before him going to work. This is so stressful, I am not even functioning at my job correctly b/c all I do is worry. I know my worrying is not helping but how can I not worry!!!??? I think Snick is also not pottying so we will stay home...This is too hard...too too hard.

With Sophie when i was training her i start by putting the pads down were she went pee-pee before and i move them a little closer to the door each day. and I also took her outside and told she to go potty. she would always pee a little cause she wanted the treat. And I would take the pee pad out with you if you need to. You have a male so you might not need to, but Sophie did'nt like to get wet in the morning. And also my steoson had a yorkie puppy that she was around alot and she only pees outside. With Sophie now she only uses the pee pad when she can't get us to go outside. hope it helps.

Maybe you could look into a trainer. There are trainer that you leave the puppy with for 10 days and than you go back and work with the trainer. I have a friend who had to do that with her dog. It work not only did he not potty in the or his crate, but he was better on a leash as well. i know it would be hard to leave your baby but if it worked it might be less stress on you and your baby.

I can answer the ex-pen vs baby gate question... My boys have seperation anxiety really bad.. well they did. I used to baby gate them into my kitchen (well I still do) and they used to eat the baseboards, bottom of the cabinets, chew and dig holes in the walls. Not a pretty sight to come home to. With an ex-pen you can keep them away from those things to avoid that kind of damage to your home. He is 8 months old now and is probably coming into the teething stage... it was horrible!
I got written up in my condos for my dogs howling and barking all day when I was at work. I started leaving a radio on for them and it's been about 2 years since anyone has complained about them, so the radio really does help. In the morning I put them in the kitchen gated, then give them a treat on my way out. They don't even see me leave because they are busy eating. The kong would not work for my boys either, they would only eat it when I was there.... so try Snicks favorite treat when you are leaving. Something irresistible to him (but not a bully stick or rawhide). I do not give bully sticks or rawhide to them when I am not around (I do not feed rawhide anymore at all) because they will chew them down into nubs in a couple hours and possibly swallow the last inch or two whole. I am afraid they will choke on it and die when I am at work.

Cesars Way
 

visit his website at cesarmilaninc.com. Two books I would recommend are "Be The Pack Leader" and "Cesars Way". Here are a few simple things pack leaders MUST do to establish pack leader role:
1. The pack leader must always eat first - while the dog watches you prepare his food - grab a cracker or something and let him see you eat first. Also, before you give him his food make him do something to earn it. for example make him "sit". He must be in a calm state before you give him his food - not all excited and jumping up all over the place.
2. When entering or leaving the house - the human ALWAYS goes first. Dog second.
3. When entering the house, ignore the dog for a few minutes. No talking, no eye contact, no touching. Might be hard to do at first - but this one really works. Same with leaving - do not get him all worked up with playing, kisses etc. about 10-15 minutes before you leave - get into a quiet state and then start going about your business to get ready and then just leave. The pack leader gets to come and go as she pleases and too much attention right before you go out the door sets the tone that you are looking for permission to leave - therefore creating the false sense that the dog is the pack leader.
4. Always ignore bad behavior. If the dog jumps up, nips while playing, poops where he's not supposed to. If he jumps up, gently push him down and ignore him for a couple of minutes until YOU invite him to jump up. Same with playing - if he nips while playing -stop immediately, say no in a stern (but not screaming) voice and ignore him for a couple of minutes until YOU invite him to play. Make him "sit" and then you can resume play. With pooping - clean it up quietly - no words. Ignore the bad behavior - that way when he does something good - the reward is that much sweeter to him.

You see, the whole thing is that the dog must EARN your affection. Our affection to them is food, touch, exercise. The order of re-establishing your pack leader role is Exercise, Discipline THEN Affection.

Gigi---You go girl!!!!! Thank you!!
We are starting retraining today and also getting some herbal all natural supplements. It's going to be hard work but so worth it for my lil Snickybutt. Thanks everyone will let you know how it goes...if anyone has any suggestions...I am always reading.

xoxox