I have always had water and hard food avail for my babies, even while potty training. Before I left for work, I would make sure there was enough water, not too much to fill their bladders, but enough to keep them hydrated, etc. and all my girls are potty trained to go outside (and on potty pads if they have to.) with no problem.

Depending on how you look at it, there are arguments on both sides, water for potty training issues vs. for health reasons.

..doesn't seem too bad if you choose not to leave water in the crate IF you're one of those who's shedule allows for the pup to be taken out or given water every couple hours or so...I don't agree with allowing them go for long periods of time without any water (4+ hours), whether potty training or not..just my preference.

You got it !!!:thumbup:

JL

Amen!

If you read my reply, I am saying a dog under 4 pounds, you say you did this when Buddy reached 6 pounds, I would not advise this either, but it's not as dangerous as the situation, I was describing. You are giving the impression, that a dog can't be housebroken, unless water is withheld. This is nonsense, and part of the housebreaking task includes teaching the dog to hold the contents of his bladder and helping it enlarge. I'm not sure how this would be accomplished if there is nothing in the bladder to hold. Some people say that withholding water at night helps with housebreaking, but you must remember at night the kidneys and bladder slow down, and an organism doesn't loose as much water at night so this wouldn't affect the dog too harshly, but withholding water all day could have an effect, and remember, that just because an animal doesn't die, or show immediate effects, damage may be occur. Remember, in my reply I said over 4 hours is too long during the day.

I agree with you 100%. Ben is 15 weeks and weighs 4lbs, and I dont think that I am doing any danger to him at all. I am simply training him and he couldnt be a happier puppy. This thread could go on for days and you would never get everyone to agree on one set way, so I say just love your pups and care for them to the best of your ability and treat them with all the love in the world.

Actually, I think many of us are saying the same thing, your dog is over 4 pounds, it has more to do with their weight than it does with their age, free feeding isn't as important for larger dogs. Smaller dogs get dehydrated much faster too.

I do not think Archie was being rude. He is right, you cannot compare a dog to a baby. They can be taken care of but in very different ways! Babies are not full grown by 1 year. I think this is a point that people will have to agree to disagree. I love my dog and he is as spoiled as my kids are. Everybody raises their kids different and have their own opinions about it, same thing with dogs. As long as the dog is not abused or suffering, nobody should judge you.

You say you can't compare a human baby and a dog; however on certain things you can compare different species, and the need for water in dogs is comparable to that of human babies. How you potty train is different. I think withholding water all day is abusive, if you withhold it a couple hours, I wouldn't say that is abusive.

I give up. Just shaking my head here.....I am new to this forum, not sure I like it very much. Seems there is some very opinionated people here not to mention judgemental.

Wouldn't calling "some of us" opinionated be judgmental on your part? What's wrong with being opinionated? Opinionated means that people have formed opinions on things, some do this without any research at all, some do it while looking at all sides of a topic thoroughly, most of us fall somewhere in between. You've got to remember an organism has 3 basic needs for survival, air, water, and food, so of course, strong opinions will be formed, on any one of the three basic needs.

My dogs are left in their crate for about 5-6 hours a day and they are perfectly fine without food and water. When we are home, they are out of their crate and have all the access to food and water they could want and they have access all night because we don't crate them then. My dogs are 8 lbs and 14 lbs and both are almost 2. I don't think I'm being abusive, but you all can think what you want about me. I would prefer to be able to let them run in a bathroom or kitchen with food and water all day, but unfortunately they are very destructive when not supervised and will and have damaged things that you wouldn't believe... they've severely damaged walls, floors, carpets, etc and are given access to many toys and entertainment so they aren't bored. Bottom line: my dogs are not abused. They are perfectly happy and healthy. I'm offended that people would even say that because I would NEVER EVER hurt my babies. They mean everything to me.

Please read the other posts, we are talking about a puppy under 4 pounds. I certainly don't think you're being abusive, your situation is entirely different.

There have been some posts in this thread not refering to just a puppy under four pounds. We got Chip at 7 1/2 weeks old and for the first month we had him my husband was home with him 24/7 but then he got a job working the night shift. After that he stayed in the crate during the day while Adam was sleeping and in the crate at night while I was sleeping. He was 2.6 lbs when we brought him home and he did perfectly fine. Now I can't speak for Smokey because we got him at 6 months.

When I was lucky enough to receive Conner in my care, he was just a little mite. He looked more like a mouse than a dog. Until he was potty trained, I kept him in an x-pen with food, water, potty pad, bed and toys. Now that he is potty trained, the pad came out and my sister comes to my house every day to let him out (he is an outside potty dog). I still leave the food and water, even though he is a whopping 11.8 pounder. My sister still comes, even though Conner can hold his potty until I get home, as I work part-time (6 hours a day). If he could not hold his potty, I would probably have left the pee pads in his pen, but would not have taken away his water.

Well we find ourselves on the same page.
Water, food, cuddle, socialization, love, respect, understanding and the list could go on that all living beings need.

I agree there is not a thing wrong for standing up and

to quote you... "Wouldn't calling "some of us" opinionated be judgmental on your part? What's wrong with being opinionated? Opinionated means that people have formed opinions on things, some do this without any research at all, some do it while looking at all sides of a topic thoroughly, most of us fall somewhere in between. You've got to remember an organism has 3 basic needs for survival, air, water, and food, so of course, strong opinions will be formed, on any one of the three basic needs. "

Basically stand for something or fall for anything and to many of us fall.

To form thoughts and opinions like mine, takes a large amount of leg work that is over the top cause I want to know when I type something I can back it up with the leg work and the research that says yes I have an understanding. I tend to be the one that has looked at it from all sides as I started on one side and worked and learned to be on the other side.
When you are messing with a life human or not or in a brain human or not that is a responsibility not to be taking lightly. What you say can effect a dog or a human for life.
Whether someone agrees with me or not, I am ok with that cause if the one I speak to does not get it, the one that reading and does not post may just go yes that my answer and a dog gets a chance at a different out come that it would have.
We all do not have to agree and when someone speaks you can take what you like and toss the rest but it does not require some like other posters to get sarcastic. Sarcasms is a silly thing and is only used when one is truly unsure that what they are saying has any merit and they may just get busted for being wrong. Our they just learned that what they thought is not as it is.. it is a way to protect ones self by hurting another.
There is not room for sarcasm in good teaching and sharing of info.

JL

I had free feed lucy when she was young & now with pebbles too. They usually only eat when someone is home anyway. I always leave water down around the clock. But I don't have crates, I enclose the babies in the kitchen for when I'm gone long periods, with potty pads.

Honestely it is up to the person. I was not going to leave water in my dogs cage all day so that he can pee all over himself and the cage while we are gone. He got water every four hours. If the police want to come and get me, be my guest. He is now trained so we leave him water all of the time. I don't care what the law is, I am not training my puppy to pee all over himself I think that is way more inhumane than not giving him water for a few hours.