Perhaps Nancy you could start your own thread in defense and in promotion of the YTCA?

Yes, I've read that too, but it does mean you have to take special precautions, a small injury to the head, can cause death. Totally agree with this, investigate, investigate. investigate!

I do not understand what you have against this breed club; obviously you have a problem with it, perhaps because they won't change the standard. However, a breed club is supposed to protect standard, and I would have a problem with the club, if they changed standard just to suit the buying whims of the pet buying public. Standard should only be changed if there are health concerns that can be directly related to the written standard. For example, an overly short nose on a written standard may cause breathing problems and the breed club might want to address that.

I'm not connected to the club in any way. I have the link in my signature because I'm forever grateful to the Yorkietalk members (non-breeders) here, who told me about the club.

Elaine,
So sorry your little one is so sick. I hope she recovers quickly with the right care. That video is just heart breaking.

I just want to reiterate what has already been said here, investigate, Investigate, INVESTIGATE who you are buying from. Georgia has some really good breeders, but it's also got a lot of HORRID ones. We are one of those states that has minimal protections and laws in place pertaining to breeding. Dogs are considered just property. We also don't have a puppy lemon law. It truly is Buyer Beware, here. Some of the greeders I met with before getting Rhett would make your toes curl! They are the reason I ended up going the rescue route instead. I saw some dogs that were so sick that I left the greeders house and immediately contacted animal control. I'm thankful that YT was here for me to refer to during that time, even though I hadn't signed up as a member yet. If it hadn't been here, I would have probably walked away with the first ill and poorly bred Yorkie that I ran across, just to "save" it. Thanks to YT, I knew if I did that, I would be effectively promoting and rewarding the greeders. Someday I'll tell you all the full stories on my furbutts, Scarlett's is especially sad.

Yes, there are some GREAT breeders in your area and if I"m not mistaken I directed Jrsy to some of those breeders or offered to help get her in contact with a a few I know on a personal basis and I also let her know that I had a good friend with a puppy available but it wasn't a tiny and tried to help but oh well she wanted a tiny.

Donna

Don't mean to hijack this thread I only have one question, I hope it can be answered here.

When there is a YTCA breeder breeding for show and selling pups but behind the scenes things are wrong where does it get reported? What kind of rules have to be followed as part of this standard of YTCA and AKC and if someone does not report this "bad thing" and continues to breed or show can they be reprimanded?

This makes sense, and this would also be a great thread topic, I know that there are ethical breeders on here and I appreciate your time and experienced opinions on these matters. I DO NOT breed nor will I EVER but I do like to try to understand the goings on in this crazy world.

You did Donna, but I did want a tiny. My point in getting another one was so I would have two the same size. I wanted one just like Brooklyn. I did get her but there was a price. Again, I am posting this to help others avoid the same situation.

I'm glad you did post to help others avoid the same situtation and that is what I'm also trying to convey is that we are here to help in trying to find and recommend good breeders :) Lesson learned and this has been a very educational thread :)

Donna

Elaine, I'm sorry your pup is sick. I bought a pup several years ago with a respritory infection. The vet couldn't get rid of it with antibiotics. She wasn't getting any better after going through 3 different ones. Finally, she prescribed Temaril P and that cleared her up. You may want to ask your vet about this.

My vet prescribed this as she said there were some antibiotics that she would not prescribe for a young pup. The Temaril did the trick.

From the Code of Ethics

7) A member shall not defame another member of the YTCA nor seek to impair member's or the YTCA's reputation, provided however, a member shall report any serious situation, created by another member, that is detrimental to the breed or is inconsistent with these principles.

Based on this Ethic and until the investigation is completed a YTCA member is not at liberty to discuss the situation.

The breeder in question is not being covered for, Elaine asked about the breeder, she contacted YTCA members for their opinion, it was given.

There is good in bad in every organization. And as I've stated over and over again, recommending a breeder is a big responsiblity and one should not do so without fully knowing one's breeeding practice. If I'm approached on another breeder, be it YTCA or not, that I know to be of questionable breeding practices, I will not speak badly of them, but will not recommend.

I may lead someone to the YTCA breeder referral list but, from that point it's up to the buyer to conduct their own investigation.

Donna explained very well the defamation clause of the code of ethics, but thank you for posting from the actual document. I realize the code prevents you from naming the breeder at this point, but will you name the breeder after the investigation?

I understand there is good and bad in every organization. But I also think when you have knowledge that someone isn't a good breeder and remain quiet, essentially you are condoning their breeding program.

Nancy....I won't quote your post but will answer you in another thread discussing the merits and lack thereof regarding the YTCA. But quickly did want to add, my problem as I've stated before is primarily with breeders whether they are YTCA or not. Unlike some, I don't look to YTCA as the reining deity of yorkie breeders.

I think plenty will agree with you that the YTCA is not GOD, however, they are the Mother Club for the Yorkshire Terrier, and they do set the standard for the AKC, and they are considered to be the leading experts. By experts, I mean those who have studied the breed the longest. Is there another breed club you prefer?

Praying for your little mia, the video is so heart breaking :( real tough to watch. I pray she gets better very soon :heart to

How a member reacts/responds to this situation is very dependent on the outcome of the investigation.

Nancy this is posted on the very first page of the YTCA breeder referral page.


PLEASE READ THIS INFORMATION CAREFULLY AND COMPLETELY.
.
The Yorkshire Terrier Club of America, Inc. [hereinafter referred to as
"YTCA"] maintains a breeders referral list of YTCA members who have
signed the YTCA's Codes of Ethics and Conduct and have requested to be
listed on this site. This breeders referral list is published for the sole purpose
of reference only.
.
These members are in good standing with the YTCA, but under no circumstances does the YTCA guarantee the services or dogs of any said member(s) nor does it assume any responsibility or liability regarding any agreements you may enter in with any of the breeders listed.
.
The YTCA does not recommend or endorse any one breeder, nor does it
recommend, guarantee, or rate breeders or their stock. Under no circumstances does the YTCA promote the sale of puppies through businesses or professionals such as pet shops, wholesalers, commercial dealers, or paid agents.
.
Buyers should check all matters relating to AKC registration, health, and
quality before making any decision to purchase a dog. .

The YTCA does not and cannot guarantee or accept any responsibility or
liability of any kind for the quality, health, or temperament of any dog; nor
for the warranty, guarantee, integrity, honesty, reliability, expressed or
implied, by any YTCA member who requested to be included on this list.
.
All such warranties, guarantees, promises, or any other aspect of animals a buyer may purchase from a YTCA member on this listing are between buyer(s) and seller(s) as individuals.
.
.

What would likely be the outcome if the investigation finds the allegations true? Would the breeder be reprimanded or club membership revoked? What has happened in the past when similar allegations have been found to be true regarding other YTCA breeders?

Each situation is taken on a case by case basis. It's very dependent on the infraction against the Consititution & By-Laws of the club. The Constitution and By-Laws are available to the public via the YTCA website.

Have there been members been suspended/expelled, yes. Keep in mind that if a Member has broken rules against the AKC and suspended from AKC, they are automatically suspended from YTCA

I remember back a couple of years ago Anne Wylie of Hylan Acres was suspended from the AKC. At least, I believe that is what she told me, I know there was a time period when she could not register pups, is that the same as suspension? Also, know she told me she expected to be able to register pups after a certain time period, does AKC have limited suspension like that?

I recall Anne's suspension, it had to do with her records and the situation occurred during the time of her husband's life threatening illness. She was suspended from AKC, for a period of time along with a monetary penalty. She was automatically suspended from YTCA. This happened shortely after she was accepted as a member into the YTCA member, which I'm sure the whole situation was a great embarrassment to her. However, her records had to be corrected before reenstatement into AKC and YTCA.

Thank you for this update. I do remember it had to do with Maltese breeding and not yorkies. I believe it was a friend of hers she trusted to keep accurate records and some pups didn't DNA true to the parents listed. I noticed she was still listed as a YTCA breeder, so wondered about the outcome of the earlier problem.

Have to give you credit Elaine, for coming on to warn others of these breeders and relate your experience, even knowing the comments that would come about you seeking a "tiny" after being warned of these breeders. You know how I feel about people purposefully breeding tinies at the risk of the mother and babies' health, so I won't go into it more. I do want to let you and others know there is NOTHING wrong with a 3 pound pup playing with a pup that might be in the 5-7 pound range. A 2-4 pound difference will not do a thing to endanger the smaller of the two. You may be surprised to see the little one being the aggressor. I have watched my litters play with my other dogs (even the 11 pound Jack Russell!) with no problems. It is more the temperment of the two dogs than the exact size that is important. My 11 pound Jack Russell is the sweetest dog ever -- she thinks she is a yorkie and wants so badly to mother the pups! She is always gentle and caring -- has never made a one of them yelp! Ben, on the other hand, is normally only a 4 pounder (plumped up to 5 lbs right now after neutering). He is NOT so sweet to the pups and does not want them near him. My little Annie did get hurt accidently when BOTH of the other dogs ran after something in the yard and tipped her over in the process, but she was only 1.5 lb at the time -- a littermate could have hurt her the same way. She didn't have anything broken or permanently amiss but I had her xrayed to be sure. Now, I wind up rescuing Ben, NOT Annie when they get to playing too rough. He may be heavier than her but she definitely has the upper hand in the assertiveness category. She hasn't made it to 3 pounds yet but I have no fear of her playing with the 5 and 11 pounders here.

So, if you want a tiny -- say you want a tiny -- but it is NOT necessary to stay THAT close to size when purchasing another. I wouldn't buy a 5 & 50 pound dog but others have shown many times that even that can work out fine with the right supervision and temperment. Just because your first yorkie turns out to be only 3 pounds, does NOT mean you have to have another that small. First find the right breeder and then look for the right TEMPERMENT! You will wind up much better in the long run.

BTW Florida Lemon Law gives the buyer the CHOICE too -- return pup for refund or replacement, or RETAIN pup & get vet bills reimbursed -- but here it is just up to price of dog. I think ALL good breeders should give the choice. Once you bond, you sure don't want to return the pup. Even finding your pup with a cold on the way home, I would probably not have thought that would have been a big deal. I am sure 10 days later, her still fighting the same URI it looks different but a new puppy owner usually tries to justify anything to keep that adorable ball of sweetness. I know, my very first one was a "lemon" but she made some mighty fine lemonade! We kept her and loved her!! The most important thing I learned -- pick the right breeder first -- then you have SO much less to go wrong. Good breeders don't sell sick puppies knowingly and if it does by chance happen they stand behind their pups. The most important part of the buying process is always picking the buyer, not the part where you pick the puppy.

:( Poor Mia, I'm so sorry.
I hope you get your Vet bills paid for and these women get put out of business.

I was hoping to find a better report on Mia today

Elaine,
Thanks for posting this info for everyone to see and to learn from. It had to be hard for you.
This video BREAKS my heart :( Your little Mia will be in our thoughts and prayers!!!!

:thumbup::thumbup:

I just cannot imagine any breader letting any sick puppy go, let alone a tiny one. They puppy should not have been shipped from one breeder to the other in it's condition.

This is really sad. Those people have to be totally heartless to be shipping a sick puppy around. Don't they realize that the stress of being moved around it what is keeping it from getting better?

Being rehomed is hard enough on a healthy puppy, but for a puppy that is already sick, it could be fatal.

I hope she gets well soon.

I personally would like to see the vet bills of exactly what the vet did. Xrays? Meds?
Since you posted the letter of unfit, where is the proof with the dates?
There is more to this story than is what is being told.

:confused:

Did you watch the video? That alone tells me that the poor thing was not fit to be sold. What caring person would rehome a puppy that is that sick.

If there is more to the story, it is more likely whether or not the OP really knew how sick she was. Or did she overlook the illness because she was eager to get her home. But I believe that a mild illness could escalate through the stress of being rehomed. Especially one that tiny.

The breeder should have known that even a well puppy can become ill from the stress of being rehomed. I'm not sure whether the OP knew that or not. I can see where the OP might have underestimated the illness, having only been around her for an hour or so. But the breeder should have known.