The first link you posted if you read it, I did not defend her. I said I would not buy a pup from her because she got from Brazil and I need to know the parents are treated well and not living in a hell hole. I also said that I got Tia second hand in the newspaper.

The second link I did defend her because I believed she had stopped brokering and was using her own breeding program. It took time for me to trust this woman but finally I did.

Again, I was wrong and I'm not looking for sympathy just looking to make people aware, but please read through the two posts before you say I defended her for years. This is not true. It was only the last year and a half that I changed my toon about her and admit now that I made a mistake. Elaine

Please, now lets just leave this as a thread to serve as a warning to others. I've already admitted responsibility from buying from a bad place. Leave it at that and let others learn from my mistake so that hopefully it's not repeated by someone else.

Jen I think you may be talking about this YTCA person.

TopKnot Yorkies

And, what would happen to the pup if she were returned? Under NJ Lemon Law you have the right to retain the pup and have the vet bills paid up to double the price of the pup OR return the pup for a full refund plus the vet expenses incurred up to that point. Call me stupid, but if the pup was sold sick, what makes you think they'd take the time to vet and cure her? My feelings were she was sold sick, and would probably be resold to someone else sick. I chose to attempt to cure her rather then send her back. I do not think it's a matter of winning in court. I'm sure I will get the judgment as I followed the NJ Puppy Lemon Law, but I do not think I will ever see the money and although I'd like to get it back this is more about exposing and hopefully putting an end to her selling and brokering sick dogs. I know it's a pup but to me sending her back sick, was not an option. It would be like sending a sick child back. That is how I feel.

This is the one with the open font $5,000 puppy?:eek:

Jen. This is not the one I was refering to that tried to sell me a five month old. It was a five month old with an open font and she wanted $3,000 plus shipping. I did not contact this breeder. I'm not sure if I should post the breeder's name or not that I initially contacted. I'd rather not stir stuff up, but topnot was not the one I was refering to. It is another YTCA member. :(

Nope, that is not the one. However, it's being worked on by YTCA members.

Not to worry Elaine, it's being taken care of.

:thumbup:

Hello, I signed up for YT in Jan of 2010, but just got back on here yesterday. I have read your messages. I am totally in an agreement with you. I had a similar situation with my yorkie and was scammed in so many ways, but your right after talking with people sometimes it all sounds good until you start the digging. I would NOT of taken her back either it takes real dog lovers to keep a sick dog, as we did the same thing. Breeders don't care it's all about the money. Throughout life we all have different opinions and don't listen to negative comments. If their were more people such as yourself n myself than dogs would always have the best care. I commend you for keeping your little girl and my thoughts and prayers are with you. I like how people past judgment because you wanted the same size playmate for your other yorkie, that is smart and we all have the right to what size, breed, and color animal we choose to have, I wanted a 5lb black and dark brown and have a 12.4lb silver and tan yorkie, but he is my baby and I will take very good care of him as I would my child. It's not the dogs fault people lie to get money. Good Luck and your doing a great job and I'm sure Mia is happy to be with you and out of that horrible home!!!!

Thank you for clarifying Elaine!

Just what will YTCA do about her, remove her from the club? Will you come back and update on the breeder that tried to do this? If she tried once, I'm afraid she'll try again, only this time with someone that doesn't know what they are dealing with. It shouldn't be kept on the DL!

I've been following this thread and I'm sorry for the random question but what does "open font" mean? Thank you.

Also, I'm very sorry about Mia. I don't think I could have just returned her either. When Teddy is only a little sick my world stops, I can only vaguely imagine how you are feeling right now.

Open font, is open fontanel, the soft spot on the skull (just like with human babies) which should close within a few months. It's not too uncommon for a pup to be born with an open font but it should close and certainly I would think by 5 months in a yorkie. I believe it's more common in chihuahuas and many of them don't ever close. If the font doesn't close, the puppy can lead a good life, but you have to be extremely careful as they are very susceptible to injury .

Thank you...I had no way of figuring it out using context clues...hah

I cried watching that poor little one struggling to breath. It's so sad she has to suffer because of the actions of people who should have her best interests at heart.
I researched over a year educating myself about the Biewer and their breeders. My efforts paid off in finding my lovable, feisty, beautiful Dori. I advise everyone to do the same. I realized I was making a 15 year commitment and did not take it lightly.

I know Kim Thank you and I'm sorry I didn't mean to come off cranky. I'm just really tired. Again, I'm sorry for jumping at you. E.

Because of our code of conduct/ethics a YTCA member is not at liberty to say who the breeder is, other than it is being handled.

Keeping in mind that Elaine asked about this breeder and never contacted her, but investigated and made a few inquiries with other YTCA members, it was taken forward. Elaine did not file a complaint but, members took the required steps to insure proper investigation.

Elaine, I know what you're going through at this time. But, commend you with coming forward. This is a great opportunity for you to help others that are searching for a puppy. You can turn your experience into a positive, educational lesson by going over your experience and identifying possible things you may have missed, things to look out for.

According to this post below she did contact the YTCA breeder. The club may call it a "code of conduct/ethics" but I don't think it's very ethical for one of their members to try to sell a pup like this and get away with it (and if the club keeps it secret they do get away with it). How is the general public to know the breeder was dealt with through the club if their code of conduct doesn't allow revealing a bad breeders name? How can anyone recommend starting with the YTCA for a breeder referral if the YTCA is involved in covering up for bad breeders?

I'm so sorry this has happened to you, and I just would like to caution others who are tempted to buy tinies, that this person's website shows that she sells tinies for three times as much as her other dogs. This is not a good sign, it's better to find a good breeder who understands tinies often come with special needs, and they don't profit from them. Thanks for sharing your experience with others.

I'll attempt to answer this....it wasn't a YTCA member that inquired about purchasing a puppy it was a non member and a YTCA member was just asked about it. It's called defaming if the YTCA member was not directly involved in the conversation. It would have to be up to the individual that was directly involved to bring it up and bring it out. It's hearsay and as long as a YTCA member didn't actually hear this member say it had an open font ect... The person that was directly involved has the right to bring the members name forward as it was between her and that particular breeder.
While a YTCA member was asked about it and it was in written form as to what the prospective buyer was told then the YTCA member can submit to the officers and board members the written word with the permission of the said prospective buyer. I hope this answers your question.

From your posts, the reader might imply that Elaine's thread and breeder had something to do with the YTCA. I just want to let others know that this isn't true. In fact, many YTCA members tried to encourage Elaine not to seek out a tiny, and warned her about those breeders who bred for tinies. Perhaps, you could start a thread and discuss the conduct of YTCA members, but this thread doesn't seem to be the place, as Elaine's sick puppy and her breeder has nothing to do with the YTCA.

Nancy thank you. I'd just like to say that when I contacted even breeders that came highly reccomended to me they too were charging at least that for a tinie. They said that the reason the tinies cost more is not because of size but due to the care and time they had to put into the pup. This came from breeders that were said to be reputable. I'll say it again, when the $$ is involved I don't think you'll see many that are truly reputable. :( Others may disagree but believe me I spoke to quite a few and didn't see much of a difference between what they said and what other breeders were saying. And, that's unfortunate. Someone said to me that my biggest issue with finding a baby is that fact I want a tiny and they were right. In my experience IF a breeder is willing to sell you a tiny, for a price then walk away because they aren't reputable. I only had TWO people out of many I spoke to say to me "I'm sorry I will not sell my tinies." They both told me that they either keep them or place them in a home they know. Elaine

I think you may have mis-read, Nancy. Elaine did contact a ytca member who offered her a pup with an open font for $3000. Elaine chose NOT to purchase that puppy.

Perhaps she could do a thread on that as well, but this thread is about another puppy, and the breeder is not listed with the YTCA. I think many people tried to tell her that a good breeder would not jack up the price for a tiny, and Elanie even said that it's common for tinies to come with open fonts. What members said to Elaine in private I don't really know, but on various threads they told her not to pay higher costs for tinies. With all the discussion of the YTCA on this thread, it does sound like this puppy was purchased from a YTCA member, and I want the reader to be clear that this wasn't the case.

Nancy, I agree and had already that same thought, about a different thread, that is why I hadn't responded yet to Donna's post. I do think it is a subject (the ethics of the YTCA) that should be explored more.

Elaine...again, I am sorry Mia is so sick and hope you get a good resolution from Susan. My apologies for going OT.....although in way, it is on topic regarding bad breeders, I know the intent of your thread was meant for another bad breeder.

This is true. I was warned by looking for a tiny I would open the doors to bad breeders. My breeder had nothing to do with the YTCA, however I do not think that ALL YTCA members are as upstanding as some believe. It's like everything you need to really investigate. I had the experience with one that I spoke about but also another in NJ that was also asking an arm and a leg for a tiny and did not ask questiions with regard to the care she'd get, just wanted to know what I thought they should cost before she'd talk to me. She was also a YTCA member. I think like everything there is good, bad and better. I only had TWO people out of many that I spoke with that said "I do not sell a tiny. I keep them or home them with somoene I know."

An important point to be made too is that it's not only the care required for a tiny but also knowing the risk if they are sick. I see it with Mia. Because she is so tiny she cannot fight off something that a larger Yorkie could fight off. Also, getting blood is next to impossible beause her veins are so tiny so admistering fluids is next to impossible too. And, her butt is so tiny that the themometer does not fit. These are things people need to know that even if YOU keep them healthy IF they get sick it is an up hill battle.

Elaine, I'm sorry Mia is so ill, I hope she is feeling better soon. Now that she's under a vets care and she's getting her medication she will be better soon.

It's not always easy to write these kind of reviews but it's going to be so helpful to others who may be searching for info an a breeder. I do agree, whether the breeder in a YTCA member or not, we still have to put in the same amount of research. I found this out the hard way........I wish you and Mia well......

I agree, it takes a big person to come on here and tell their story. I thank you for trying to warn others. I do hope Mia gets better quickly.

Actually, what I said was that I was told (By this breeder) that it was common for tinies to have an open font but it would close by a year old. And Nancy is correct this was not a YTCA member that sold me Mia. However, as I said and some may disagree I do not believe that just because they are a YTCA member that they are ALL reputable. I think the most important lesson here is to investigate ALL before buying. I went with my heart and should have known better. And, I hope that this will help others.

I can't imagine anyone believing that all members of anything are upstanding. I believe in the YTCA Code of Ethics and Code of Conduct. Are there some breeders who joined the YTCA so they can sell more dogs, of course there are. Are there breeders who started out with pure hearts and a willingness to improve the breed, but got greedy and no longer do what they once pledged to do? Of course there are. I had been told that I would never meet any breeder who felt the same way about breeding as I do, and through the YTCA, I have met breeders who do have the same love of the breed as I do, and who are not breeding to suppliment their income. I try to educate puppy buyers on what to look for, and give the "red flags". I believe I told Elaine to put her name on breeder's list, and to be patient. In my opinion, a good breeder does not profit through tinies, whether she is a YTCA member or not. It would be nice if we could say to people look for that label and you'll be safe, but we can't do this, so we try to educate on other things as well, but some people what what they want, when they want it, and all advice goes out the window.