HELP!!!Question on why breeders..... - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Erin · 09-23-2007, 04:45 AM

I wish that breeders would work to breed Yorkies with stronger knees. I think that it isn't enough to say that a lot of Yorkies have bad knees.

Loki has one LP grade 2 he will probably not need surgery. Sammy has two grade 3's and will probably need surgery in a year or two. I feel so bad watching her walk.

Mardelin · 09-23-2007, 05:35 AM

I have another question, did your guarantee stipulate return only on life threatening genetic diseases?

Mardelin · 09-23-2007, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erin

I wish that breeders would work to breed Yorkies with stronger knees. I think that it isn't enough to say that a lot of Yorkies have bad knees.

Loki has one LP grade 2 he will probably not need surgery. Sammy has two grade 3's and will probably need surgery in a year or two. I feel so bad watching her walk.

Reputable Breeders are taking precautions and working to breed in good knees.

Here's another thought.....allowing your baby to jump off and on furniture can contribute to LP.

topknot · 09-23-2007, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Reputable Breeders are taking precautions and working to breed in good knees.

Here's another thought.....allowing your baby to jump off and on furniture can contribute to LP. - Mardelin

Mardelin is correct. This is why reputable breeders have their dogs tested and checked before breeding.

Jumping on and off furniture can contribute to LP - this is why we cannot cover everything. I have my dogs tested before breeding and then pups are checked before leaving to their new homes. Prospected owners can talked to my vet before they pick up the pup. We do everything we can.
T.

tweetyb715 · 09-23-2007, 07:35 AM

What if you purchased a female puppy and intended to breed, made that known to the breeder at the time of purchase and then the puppy ends up being diagnosed with grade IV bilateral luxated patella and advised by vet not to breed due to genetic flaw....then what is the breeders responsibility?
The 9 month old female was returned to the breeder to be evaluated by her own vet for recommendation - same conclusion.
Just curious about other breeders opinions on the appropriate fair way to handle this situation from both the breeders and purchasers point of view.

In answer to the original post - the breeder would have the option of placing the dog in a "pet only" home - hopefully having her spayed first (to be sure she is not breed) and fully informing any potential new owners of her medical condition and potential medical expenses/surgeries.
If you purchased her as a pet and feel you can provide her with the medical attention/treatment necessary down the road - then you would first have the option yourself of keeping her, having her spayed, etc.

yorkiekist · 09-23-2007, 07:46 AM

I would get my vets opion also. Then if the breeder prospect definately has horrible patellas and shouldnt be bred, I would replace the puppy with another. The original puppy will stay with the original owners as I know they already love the puppy, but she must be spayed and the AKC papers returned to me before any replacement is done. If she was already bred, there are no replacements or guarantees. But, any breeder/show prospect that I sell are already vet checked way before I make any decision to sell them. Lynn

YorkieRose · 09-23-2007, 10:24 AM

If a person asked me for a breed potential, first it would not be 8 weeks old..or even 12 weeks. So I would most likely know what it was going to be.....BUT if I did let a breed potential go at 12 weeks and it did not turn out to be what I said..then I would return the money.

I would also do that if you paid for a tiny and got a 7 pounder etc...stand behind your word or don't give it..plain and simple..don't make any promises if you do not plan to honor them when it all hits the fan and it will if you breed long enough.
I would respect a breeder more if they gave NO guarantee, then give a 5 page guarantee and refuse to abide by it.

I talked to a Maltese breeder last month..she said she gave no health guarantee what so ever..when you walked out the door any problem was yours..at least the buyer knows going in what they can expect..NOTHING!

YorkieNewbie22 · 09-23-2007, 11:05 AM

here is the contract. i am about to call her, right now i am just going over in my head some things and questions i want to say...

*************'s Guarantee

Our puppies are all registered with AKC, and de-wormed twice. Validation of this guarantee requires examination of your puppy by the vet of your choice and at the purchasers expense within 2 business days of the delivery date. This veterinary examination is mandatory to confirm that your puppy was not sick or injured at the time of delivery.

The guarantee against transmissible diseases such as parvovirus for example, is valid for a period of 7 days starting on the day of delivery, since the normal incubation period for transmissible diseases is 5 to 7 days. For example: if first signs of parvovirus were to show on a puppy 12 or 15 days from delivery, the puppy could not have carried that disease from the breeder's premises and incubated it for that long before showing signs of the disease.

The breeder guarantees the puppy until 1 year of age against all life threatening congenital or hereditary defects. If the puppy has a life threatening congenital or hereditary defect, it will be replaced with the first available puppy of the same value from the breeders stock, as soon as possible. The original puppy must be returned (at owners expense) before a new puppy can be delivered. No one may keep the original puppy, it must be returned. The purchaser is responsible for any shipping fees for the replacement puppy.

In the event of death, an autopsy must be preformed, (at owners expense), by a licensed veterinarian to determine the exact cause of death. The report from the autopsy must be sent to my attending veterinarian for review.

Guarantee not valid if sold to a third party without the permission of the breeder.

The breeder reserves the right of first refusal if purchaser decides to sell said puppy. The breeder is not responsible for any veterinarian bill the purchaser may incur regarding said puppy.

The purchaser is responsible for any shipping fees and or crates needed to deliver puppy safely to new home. The breeder does not guarantee size or color. Only replacements will be made, NO CASH REFUNDS.

This guarantee does not cover: Hypoglycemia, coccidiosis, giardia, hernias, earmites, or fleas.

Mardelin · 09-23-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieNewbie22

here is the contract. i am about to call her, right now i am just going over in my head some things and questions i want to say...

*************'s Guarantee

Our puppies are all registered with AKC, and de-wormed twice. Validation of this guarantee requires examination of your puppy by the vet of your choice and at the purchasers expense within 2 business days of the delivery date. This veterinary examination is mandatory to confirm that your puppy was not sick or injured at the time of delivery.

The guarantee against transmissible diseases such as parvovirus for example, is valid for a period of 7 days starting on the day of delivery, since the normal incubation period for transmissible diseases is 5 to 7 days. For example: if first signs of parvovirus were to show on a puppy 12 or 15 days from delivery, the puppy could not have carried that disease from the breeder's premises and incubated it for that long before showing signs of the disease.

The breeder guarantees the puppy until 1 year of age against all life threatening congenital or hereditary defects. If the puppy has a life threatening congenital or hereditary defect, it will be replaced with the first available puppy of the same value from the breeders stock, as soon as possible. The original puppy must be returned (at owners expense) before a new puppy can be delivered. No one may keep the original puppy, it must be returned. The purchaser is responsible for any shipping fees for the replacement puppy.

LP is not a life threatening defect. So, it looks as if she's covered herself there.

In the event of death, an autopsy must be preformed, (at owners expense), by a licensed veterinarian to determine the exact cause of death. The report from the autopsy must be sent to my attending veterinarian for review.

Guarantee not valid if sold to a third party without the permission of the breeder.

The breeder reserves the right of first refusal if purchaser decides to sell said puppy. The breeder is not responsible for any veterinarian bill the purchaser may incur regarding said puppy.

The purchaser is responsible for any shipping fees and or crates needed to deliver puppy safely to new home. The breeder does not guarantee size or color. Only replacements will be made, NO CASH REFUNDS.

This guarantee does not cover: Hypoglycemia, coccidiosis, giardia, hernias, earmites, or fleas.
Don't like this statement at all......Any good breeder would cover this for a certain amount of time.

If this puppy was sold as a breeding pup......there is nothing speaking to that at all.

Mardelin · 09-23-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieNewbie22

here is the contract. i am about to call her, right now i am just going over in my head some things and questions i want to say...

*************'s Guarantee

Our puppies are all registered with AKC, and de-wormed twice. Validation of this guarantee requires examination of your puppy by the vet of your choice and at the purchasers expense within 2 business days of the delivery date. This veterinary examination is mandatory to confirm that your puppy was not sick or injured at the time of delivery.

The guarantee against transmissible diseases such as parvovirus for example, is valid for a period of 7 days starting on the day of delivery, since the normal incubation period for transmissible diseases is 5 to 7 days. For example: if first signs of parvovirus were to show on a puppy 12 or 15 days from delivery, the puppy could not have carried that disease from the breeder's premises and incubated it for that long before showing signs of the disease.

The breeder guarantees the puppy until 1 year of age against all life threatening congenital or hereditary defects. If the puppy has a life threatening congenital or hereditary defect, it will be replaced with the first available puppy of the same value from the breeders stock, as soon as possible. The original puppy must be returned (at owners expense) before a new puppy can be delivered. No one may keep the original puppy, it must be returned. The purchaser is responsible for any shipping fees for the replacement puppy.

LP is not a life threatening defect. So, it looks as if she's covered herself there.

In the event of death, an autopsy must be preformed, (at owners expense), by a licensed veterinarian to determine the exact cause of death. The report from the autopsy must be sent to my attending veterinarian for review.

Guarantee not valid if sold to a third party without the permission of the breeder.

The breeder reserves the right of first refusal if purchaser decides to sell said puppy. The breeder is not responsible for any veterinarian bill the purchaser may incur regarding said puppy.

The purchaser is responsible for any shipping fees and or crates needed to deliver puppy safely to new home. The breeder does not guarantee size or color. Only replacements will be made, NO CASH REFUNDS.

This guarantee does not cover: Hypoglycemia, coccidiosis, giardia, hernias, earmites, or fleas.
Don't like this statement at all......Any good breeder would cover this for a certain amount of time.

If this puppy was sold as a breeding pup......there is nothing speaking to that at all.

Mardelin · 09-23-2007, 11:58 AM

didn't mean to double post....My computer is acting a little strange

YorkieNewbie22 · 09-23-2007, 12:05 PM

yes but this most likely is a hereditary thing. MiMi cant even get on the furniture, let alone be able to jump off. She is a house dog and only goes outside when we are out for walks. Also when I am not home or around her, I crate her because she is not completely house trained. So i see it a very rare possibility that she injured herself.

There anyway to PROOVE that its hereditary??

I tried calling no one answered so I will try again. So far this breeder has not done anything to make me thing she is out to scam me, so I am hoping she will work with me on this..

YorkieNewbie22 · 09-23-2007, 12:10 PM

ugh, i see what you are saying Mardelin. Sucks because she knows I wanted to show her...

BamaFan121s · 09-23-2007, 12:52 PM

Unfortunately what you have described is the replacement policy some breeders use. I can't understand how it benefits anyone because clearly you (or anyone) would already be too attached to the dog to willingly give her up. Maybe the breeder would be willing to chip in some of the cost for the surgery if it is needed. Some LP cases, depending on the severity, never require surgery. Did your vet feel like it would eventually be needed? I am very sorry you are having to deal with this.
Hugs to you and Mimi.

YorkieRose · 09-23-2007, 01:51 PM

The breeder ONLY guarantees a replacement puppy IF the problem is life threathening..luxating patellas are not going to kill or shorten the life of your Yorkie. I do not see where you have a claim..you agreed to this contract..and the breeder has made NO mention of what this pup was sold as..a pet, show or breeding...
When you deal with a reputable breeder who sells show/breeding potentials...they will state all these things in the contract..exactly what happens if the puppy develops a problem that makes it unfit for the ring or breeding...is there another part to your contract...verbal is not going to hold much weight in court.

09-23-2007, 04:45 AM	#16
Erin Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs Posts: 3,306	I wish that breeders would work to breed Yorkies with stronger knees. I think that it isn't enough to say that a lot of Yorkies have bad knees. Loki has one LP grade 2 he will probably not need surgery. Sammy has two grade 3's and will probably need surgery in a year or two. I feel so bad watching her walk. __________________ Erin, Sammy & Loki Sewing patterns and tutorials @ www.dogundermydesk.com

09-23-2007, 05:35 AM	#17
Mardelin Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 14,776	I have another question, did your guarantee stipulate return only on life threatening genetic diseases? __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers*

09-23-2007, 07:35 AM	#20
tweetyb715 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 93	Questions for breeders.... What if you purchased a female puppy and intended to breed, made that known to the breeder at the time of purchase and then the puppy ends up being diagnosed with grade IV bilateral luxated patella and advised by vet not to breed due to genetic flaw....then what is the breeders responsibility? The 9 month old female was returned to the breeder to be evaluated by her own vet for recommendation - same conclusion. Just curious about other breeders opinions on the appropriate fair way to handle this situation from both the breeders and purchasers point of view. In answer to the original post - the breeder would have the option of placing the dog in a "pet only" home - hopefully having her spayed first (to be sure she is not breed) and fully informing any potential new owners of her medical condition and potential medical expenses/surgeries. If you purchased her as a pet and feel you can provide her with the medical attention/treatment necessary down the road - then you would first have the option yourself of keeping her, having her spayed, etc. __________________

09-23-2007, 10:24 AM	#22
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	problem If a person asked me for a breed potential, first it would not be 8 weeks old..or even 12 weeks. So I would most likely know what it was going to be.....BUT if I did let a breed potential go at 12 weeks and it did not turn out to be what I said..then I would return the money. I would also do that if you paid for a tiny and got a 7 pounder etc...stand behind your word or don't give it..plain and simple..don't make any promises if you do not plan to honor them when it all hits the fan and it will if you breed long enough. I would respect a breeder more if they gave NO guarantee, then give a 5 page guarantee and refuse to abide by it. I talked to a Maltese breeder last month..she said she gave no health guarantee what so ever..when you walked out the door any problem was yours..at least the buyer knows going in what they can expect..NOTHING!

09-23-2007, 11:58 AM	#26
Mardelin Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 14,776	didn't mean to double post....My computer is acting a little strange __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers*

09-23-2007, 07:46 AM	#21
yorkiekist YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: HOT, HOT, HOT AZ Posts: 3,150	I would get my vets opion also. Then if the breeder prospect definately has horrible patellas and shouldnt be bred, I would replace the puppy with another. The original puppy will stay with the original owners as I know they already love the puppy, but she must be spayed and the AKC papers returned to me before any replacement is done. If she was already bred, there are no replacements or guarantees. But, any breeder/show prospect that I sell are already vet checked way before I make any decision to sell them. Lynn

09-23-2007, 11:05 AM	#23
YorkieNewbie22 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: California Posts: 239	here is the contract. i am about to call her, right now i am just going over in my head some things and questions i want to say... *************'s Guarantee Our puppies are all registered with AKC, and de-wormed twice. Validation of this guarantee requires examination of your puppy by the vet of your choice and at the purchasers expense within 2 business days of the delivery date. This veterinary examination is mandatory to confirm that your puppy was not sick or injured at the time of delivery. The guarantee against transmissible diseases such as parvovirus for example, is valid for a period of 7 days starting on the day of delivery, since the normal incubation period for transmissible diseases is 5 to 7 days. For example: if first signs of parvovirus were to show on a puppy 12 or 15 days from delivery, the puppy could not have carried that disease from the breeder's premises and incubated it for that long before showing signs of the disease. The breeder guarantees the puppy until 1 year of age against all life threatening congenital or hereditary defects. If the puppy has a life threatening congenital or hereditary defect, it will be replaced with the first available puppy of the same value from the breeders stock, as soon as possible. The original puppy must be returned (at owners expense) before a new puppy can be delivered. No one may keep the original puppy, it must be returned. The purchaser is responsible for any shipping fees for the replacement puppy. In the event of death, an autopsy must be preformed, (at owners expense), by a licensed veterinarian to determine the exact cause of death. The report from the autopsy must be sent to my attending veterinarian for review. Guarantee not valid if sold to a third party without the permission of the breeder. The breeder reserves the right of first refusal if purchaser decides to sell said puppy. The breeder is not responsible for any veterinarian bill the purchaser may incur regarding said puppy. The purchaser is responsible for any shipping fees and or crates needed to deliver puppy safely to new home. The breeder does not guarantee size or color. Only replacements will be made, NO CASH REFUNDS. This guarantee does not cover: Hypoglycemia, coccidiosis, giardia, hernias, earmites, or fleas.

09-23-2007, 12:05 PM	#27
YorkieNewbie22 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: California Posts: 239	yes but this most likely is a hereditary thing. MiMi cant even get on the furniture, let alone be able to jump off. She is a house dog and only goes outside when we are out for walks. Also when I am not home or around her, I crate her because she is not completely house trained. So i see it a very rare possibility that she injured herself. There anyway to PROOVE that its hereditary?? I tried calling no one answered so I will try again. So far this breeder has not done anything to make me thing she is out to scam me, so I am hoping she will work with me on this..

09-23-2007, 12:10 PM	#28
YorkieNewbie22 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: California Posts: 239	ugh, i see what you are saying Mardelin. Sucks because she knows I wanted to show her...

09-23-2007, 12:52 PM	#29
BamaFan121s Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 11,432	Unfortunately what you have described is the replacement policy some breeders use. I can't understand how it benefits anyone because clearly you (or anyone) would already be too attached to the dog to willingly give her up. Maybe the breeder would be willing to chip in some of the cost for the surgery if it is needed. Some LP cases, depending on the severity, never require surgery. Did your vet feel like it would eventually be needed? I am very sorry you are having to deal with this. Hugs to you and Mimi.

09-23-2007, 01:51 PM	#30
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	problem The breeder ONLY guarantees a replacement puppy IF the problem is life threathening..luxating patellas are not going to kill or shorten the life of your Yorkie. I do not see where you have a claim..you agreed to this contract..and the breeder has made NO mention of what this pup was sold as..a pet, show or breeding... When you deal with a reputable breeder who sells show/breeding potentials...they will state all these things in the contract..exactly what happens if the puppy develops a problem that makes it unfit for the ring or breeding...is there another part to your contract...verbal is not going to hold much weight in court.