I'm so upset with a breeder

[DazzlinYT]

Yes YorkieKisses you are correct, you have to keep breeding and ownership records on any dog that you co-own, whether it lives in your home or not.

Originally Posted by yorkykisses

Lynda I am sorry for what you are going through. I recently decided to add a female to my program and was talking with a certain show breeder. I had done everything but sign on the dotted line for the purchase of this particular dog. I had this uneasy feeling all of the sudden concerning this breeder and opted out of the purchase of this particular dog. Which I can now say that I am relieved that I did not go through with this particular deal. I am still in the market to add to my program and would like to ask if I may "who the dam and sire is to your puppy(s)? I believe that we all need to stick together and hopefully we can keep others from going through unnecessary heartache. Lynda I do hope that you have peace with this issue in the near future.

Wnalegria it would also be nice if you would enlighten us as to who you keep referring to in your threads. It seems you and Helen have alot to share. One would also think that if you co-own a dog with someone you would also keep records on the dog you co-own? For example you co-own at least two male dogs and I would presume that you have shared all the important information for recording keeping with the other co-owners of these two particular male dogs, right? I would be referring to when they have been used for stud and to what females they have been studded to.

[DazzlinYT]

You know, Pat that is an excellent question! Can the owner of this dog please post the pedigree for us to view? There is at least ONE LBV dog who has a questionable sire. If the dog is a LBV dog, unfortunately as much as people love to hate Carol..lol...it isn't her fault per se..though it's no secret the parentage of this dog has been questioned now for several years...I can't imagine she wouldn't have known.

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Linda...does your bitch have LBV in her pedigree?

[doortego]

Lost again, What is LBV?

[DazzlinYT]

It is a kennel name, from Brazil.. Lake Buena Vista

Originally Posted by doortego

Lost again, What is LBV?

[sshaw]

Originally Posted by wnalegria

The AKC moves at a snails pace. When there is a problem they often will step back and tell you to get a attorney. I know first hand. That they are not a lot of help when you need them.

Stay calm- be cool and hound the AKC- ask for every department that you can and talk to every person that you can. Remember the squeekey wheel will get greased.

Besy of luck in resolving this matter.

Kathy,
I posted to you not long ago wondering what ever happened to that little male orphaned pup that you allowed your female to nurse with? Did that woman ever get in touch with you and did you have his little tail docked? Quite a few of us were interested how it all worked out

[topknot]

Dear Becki, I asked her the sire and dam and found out no LBV is involved.
Just wanted to add this in since we have not heard and did not want people to jump to conclusions.
T.

[DazzlinYT]

Oh absolutely, which is why I didn't post who was deemed "questionable"..nothing to my knowledge has ever been proven one way or another, so definately..no jumping to conclusions! Actually I perused Carol's website and didn't see those particular dogs in any of her dogs.

Originally Posted by topknot

Dear Becki, I asked her the sire and dam and found out no LBV is involved.
Just wanted to add this in since we have not heard and did not want people to jump to conclusions.
T.

[Cherrico]

Hey Pat,

This is the same Yorkie Girl I was telling you about a long time back that I had with no AKC papers, Her name was Ashey . and when all of this mess started I put her in a Pet home, Knowing we would never get any AKC papers on our YORKIES ..... I took this at a loss and have moved on. All breeders should do DNA testing it should be a law I think.................. alot got hurt over this mess

[Cherrico]

When I first started out with Yorkshire Terriers I didn't no to much about what it was I should have been looking for in the Yorkshire Terrier line as far as Bad patellas, Liver Shunt, and much more that Yorkshire Terrier can be known for. I never realized that there were so many bad and Dishonest breeder's out there and yes I did learn the hard way. There was not a thing easy about how I got to were I am today !

Let me tell you a story to what can happen to you as it has happened to me and my friends and yes this can happen to you so please read on ,

I one day saw a add in the paper and there was a local breeder selling Yorkshire Terrier puppies , I said to my husband can I go see the puppies and get one he said sure Linda Dawn so off I went .

I got to the breeders house and out came two little girls and were they sweet I seemed to take to this one little girl that was as sweet as could be. I played with the babies for some time, Talked with the breeder for a very long time, The breeder of the girls told me what good lines that the babies father was from that she had got him from her friend that is a Show breeder in Georgia and then I played a bit more with the girls picked the one I liked paid the lady got all of her paper work and off we went.

Got home with her My family just loved her so now it was time to name our new baby girl we went thou about 100 names before we picked one, ASHLEY we named her. Went to the vet the vet said she was a nice little girl, So at that time I had decided if she grow up to be as nice as we were
thinking at the time she would be that I was going to breed her .We worked our butt's off with her making sure she was in the best of condition for our breeding program , this took lot's of time not to mention money to take the best of care of Ashley as we always have done with everyone of our dogs, We had a female that we used for breeding her
name is Haley (Moma's Girl) I liked Ashley so much that I asked the breeder if maybe I could use her
stud with Haley and I did , Haley had some darling little love bug's sired by Ashley's Dad, He had this
wonderful blood line come from a Show breeder I was thinking what more could I ask for then this.

I had placed some of the puppies in Show home's etc.... Then Ashley grows up and on her second
heat we breed our Ashley and Ashley give use some beautiful babies, We sold our babies to pet home's all thou I did sale some little male studs out of her litter to friends of ours to use in there breeding program . I even sent a very good friend of mine to by a puppy out of the same line as Ashley and now we both had the same line with our girls and were we ever so happy with our girls. My friend will be posting soon about this story as well . IT TRUNED OUT THAT MY GIRL FRIEND DIDNT HAVE VERY GOOD LUCK WITH HER GIRL FROM THIS LINE AS THE WERE MANY THINGS THAT WENT WRONG WITH HER LITTER'S FROM THIS LINE. She will be telling you her night mare of this story.

Everyone was so happy to have a puppy from such a wonderful little girl and such wonderful blood lines, So one day in the year of Oct , 17 th. 2005 I walked out to get the mail from the mail box and here was a letter from AKC , I thought to myself wonder what this is as I stood in my front yard
opening the letter and almost passed out opening this letter, The AKC letter read like this:


Oct 17, 2005

Reference Number# ........
Female Yorkshire Terrier Reg#
and All OFFSPRING:


A parentage verification analysis of the AMERICAN KENNEL CLUB (AKC) DNA Certifications was conducted on a dog in your dog's pedigree/lineage. The DNA results indicate that this dog could not be offspring of the parents to which it is registered. Please be advised that this dose not imply
incorrect parentage or incorrect identity of your dogs or any offspring that your dog may have sired and/or whelped.

Because your is a direct descendent of a dog in the litter with incorrect parentage, the registration
of your dog and it's offspring have been placed on referral. This means that American Kennel Club
sanctioned or licensed events. We regret the necessity of taking this action.


The breeder of the litter with incorrect parentage has been notified and we have requested additional DNA samples to determine correct parentage. Regrettably the registration of the initial littter, its members and their offspring must be cancelled if correct parentage cannot be determined. Because your's dogs direct parentage is not in question, there is no action for you to
take at this time. All recorded owners will receive written notification at the conclusion of the inquiry.

Thank You




After the finical sock of this AKC letter I called the breeder's as many other's did that had the same
mess on there hands as I did with no AKC paper's For my bitch or any of her offspring and the two
breeder's just pointed one another out and said I don't no what to tell you sorry. More or less they told me better luck next time ...........



Update as of Sept 4 2006 AKC sent new update to us !!!

No AKC paper's will ever be giving out on Ashley or any of the offspring as the parentage cannot be determined. The AKC Grandparents to Ashley were indeed not the Parent's to Ashey's Dad and the breeder's will not take any claim in this matter. As they have done many times before from my understanding. In result of this mess we have placed Ashley in a pet loving home were I can still see her. There are 3 breeders that had hands on with the father to our yorkie girls here not just one breeder and non of us no who was the one to do such a thing that has been done here !

PLEASE DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE BUYING A PUPPY OF YOUR DREAMS !!!!! I wish I would have back then , I would have seen all of the post about the bad breeder's and maybe would have saved myself and my family from a BIG HEART ACE.

I saw that one of you was asking to see the ped on this mess , However it will not help because the ped we have dont even go with our dogs that we are talking about here. we dont no who the Mom or Dad is DNA test is now saying that not only isnt the Dad to our girls Dad isnt his DAD BUT the Mom isnt his MOM ON TOP OF THAT.....

Lindadawn

[luvdorkyyorkies]

Actually stating at least the 2 gen pedigree might help others(or just the stud and bitch in question). Who is to say how many people have that Particular stud or female on their pedigree. Even though its not the true pedigree of your dogs. It just might be the first of a line of investigations they are doing on this Particular similair pedigree from these line dogs. They might be going as far back as they can, to see just how pure the lines are. Kinda like using the line as an example of DNA intelligence. If the dogs are alive they will test them. Does that make sense?
Maybe its on the pedigree of the dogs I purchased from a breeder thats under investigation, but not suspended. And hopefully they are not! BUt who knows it may be possible.
I wont give any info on my two girls yet, because Im hoping it will resolve very shortly. And I certainly dont like causing trouble for people or telling hurtful tales when its something that was just a honest mistake that took a long while to resolve. Its not a kind thing to do or a smart thing to do. I feel this way even after I dont feel professional behavior or kindness was extended to me. I have felt taken advantage of and pretty stupid really.
But if It turns out that the parentage/pedigree can not be determined. I will not have the first regret letting others know.

[doggoneyorkies2]

If only the grandfather was not the grandfather, that may have been a mistake. But the grandmother is not the grandmother too, so no mistake. One is a mistake two in not. I would like to see AKC go in and check out all Carol yorkies to see it they match all the puppies she has sold.
I don't want to use what the pedgree tells us who the grandfather was and put someone else yorkie into this mess, why drag her name into the mud. I will say who the pedgree saids the grandmother was, because the its the same breeder. The grandmother on the pedgree is Carol's Charming
TP17699203,and the breeder is Carol Woods, Harleyman is about 3 years old now. SO if your dog came from this mother about 3 years ago.....well need I say more.
I still love my yorkies the same nothing new there, sweet kindhearted loving yorkie you will ever find . Just makes me mad that people can do this and get away with it and not care what harm they have done to so many people.
As a breeder I want only to sell the best heathy line I can and to be trusted to do so.
I hope this post and others like it will help others from making the same mistake I did.
Lynda

[doortego]

I admit I know nothing about this, haven't figured out who is who or who did what but could someone tell me hypothetically what someone would have to gain by doing this? If you have the dogs that are listed on the pedigree why wouldn't you just use them? Also I suppose someone could buy a litter from somewhere else, but I thought you could only register so many litters a year from one dog so why would you use your registration on different pups? I'm not trying to stir things up, just seem to be totally lost in this thread. Any help on who or why would be appreciated as well. Thanks

[Cherrico]

Yes this is ture maybe know one ment to do this , maybe it was just a mix up, wHO AM I TO SAY Like I said there are 3 breeders here that had hands on with the Sire so who is to say ? This is why I at this point I dont think that anyone can just say one name in the matter, AS THE YORKIE MALE WAS PASTED TO 3 BREEDERS BEFORE HE WAS BREED. I am not taking up for any one person here I just think if the story is going to be told All needs to be said and not just part of the story . If AKC didnt find were it went wrong how can anyone point the finger ? You cant !!!

AKC would have to call the shot here wouldnt you say.

THE REASON FOR MY POST WAS TO SHOW THAT THERE ISNT JUST ANY ONE BREEDER HERE TO LOOK AT IT IS 3 BREEDERS AND THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED ANY WERE ALONG THE LINE. THAT IS WHY SOME OF US HAVE CALLED IT A LOSS AND HAVE LET IT GO. WE WILL NEVER NO WHAT OR WERE IT WENT WRONG !

[wcbuy]

Hello everyone I am Carol Woods and would like to reply to Doggoneyorkies-
Linda Montgomery. I do not know Linda or any of the other people involved
in this situation. However I have had things happen to me like this that hurt
and I feel very sorry for all of them. I have never sold to Linda - Peggy - but
I did sell the grandfather Shady Gr's Rerun to Carolyn Buffington. She also ask to buy any puppies out of him which I let her have - he was a very pretty
little guy. I only bred him twice and she received all the puppies and the
correct papers with the puppies when she picked them up. The two litters
were in seperate crates. This has been a few years ago - now all puppies
that are sold to breeders are chipped. AKC has checked all my dogs and
records. They all have been DNA and the correct pedigrees are in the folder
with each dogs records. All my adults have been Vet checked before I breed.
All puppies are Vet checked when and if they leave. I do not know what happened in this situation but I did what AKC ask of me and was very happy
to do it and pay for it. There were others that did not do what AKC asked.
I was assured that they found the problem but the person would not resend
DNA. I am happy to do anything AKC asked and send any DNA required. If
any of you would like to come take DNA or take any yorkie I own to have
them checked you are welcome at any time.

As I read the hate Carol phrase I could not believe there are breeders out
there that feel this way about people they do not even know. How sad!

Starwood Yorkies made some statements that did not even make any since
I don't know what she was talking about and for sure it was not me - I am
and have for 37 years been a pedigree nut so no way would I give the wrong
pedigree. And as for liver shunt - the only yorkies that have had liver shunt
at Carol's Toys were from Brenda Smith,Starwood Yorkies 1 male and 1 female

A couple of you mentioned LBV - I would like to address that as well. God
blessed me with some wonderful friends Tati, Glaucia, & Ceasar & Arthur
and as a bonus some exceptional yorkshire terriers. All are micro chipped
before leaving Brasil. They have the correct DNA. Mine were all healthy.
They are Vet checked but most of all the kennel is the most up to date,
awesome thing I have even seen. It is spotless and beautiful. (you can see
for yourself at her site) I had the pleasure of seeing for myself and meeting
the eight workers that help take care of the beautiful dogs that are loved
and live there. I can't wait to visit again very soon.

I hope I have covered all your questions concerning me and this matter
if not feel free to contact me or my husband. Give all your yorkies a hug
for me. Many Blessings to each of you. Carol Woods, CAROLS TOYS

[doggoneyorkies2]

We are the ones with out AKC papers because of this mess. It was the breeder job to make sure the mother was the mother and the father was the father and no one got lost. Somewhere there is a father and mother for Harleyman be it from an AKC yorkies or not ,but he came from somewhere !So I will never believe that was a mistake, I believe someone did not care for the breed as much as they should have. If I ever find who the real mom or dad of Harleyman is I will fix this once and for all. Now as for the livershunt, the mother of those puppies was Paris, Paris mom was Teaa breeder Carol woods, father to Paris Harleyman beeder Carol Woods. This is a fax its right on the paper work at AKC. I deal only with the faxs I have in front of me in black and white. I took care of that sweet tiny baby and ate the cost to keep him alive till we found saveayorkies. They took him and had some very long nights keeping him alive. He lives livershunt free now and in a great loving home. Paris and all puppies where tested and are livershunt free and have been fixed and put in pet homes also a fax.
I'm not going by who said what to whom, its all fax.
I don't care about so and so, I care about doggys I'm a real dog nut always have been. How anyone can just breed and not care who breeds with who just sell them for the love of money is someone I can't understand.
I don't keep my doggys in kennels they live right here in my home with us, not one is keep in outside housing. Also a proven fax, to many people been to my home and know this for a fax. I do daycare for a living and the dogs run to meet the kids every morning. The kids and the dogs play togther all day long. The dogs are my kids. I tell the kids they are here to keep my dogs happy...........lol............ My hubby and I do everything for out babys, we
do it all out of the love for them, and I get lots of help from my yorkie friends that breeder and show people.
As for all this mess I think this breeder need to start living up to what she did.
Yes maybe she did broker the pup out, but it has been proven that all the DNA did matched all pups in that house.
Breeders must stand behide their work it goes with the job of being a breeder.
I really think a good breeder would be trying to make good on this big so called mistake. I have 2 dogs in this mess and one would have been a show
dog. I have alot of cost in this mess as well.
I would like a puppy with the a line as good as the one I thought I was getting, I know I would do what is right if it was my mistake...
I would not put the blame on anyone else are try to fight it, it would be my mistake as the breeder and I would fix it for anyone that wanted it fixed.
But that is me, you can see how this one is being takin care of.
There has been no fax anywhere that I ever did anything wrong as a breeder
and never had a pup come back to me.
I have nothing more to say
I have the fax from AKC and the fax about the livershunt baby, and the fax I have have no AKC papers,,,thats what I deal with only ( faxs)
So take it as it is and make up your own minds, I hope with faxs.
Thanks again for your input.
doggoneyorkies Lynda Montgomery