Stickey post?
 

What do you guys think if I ask Admin to Sticky the Early S/N post? I think there is some good stuff on there. This is in the breeders forum and maybe would help breeders make the decision if they are considering it.

Great idea! :thumbup: :thumbup: Lots of info there.

I also wish we had a sticky about literature and websites that would give a first time breeder alot of good info. Its so hard for anyone to cover every little aspect completely. It would benefit those who have an "accident" that we hear alot about on here. Whether we like this kind of breeding or not, it does happen and its up to us to do the right thing and help anyone and their yorkie who may need us.

Honestly, I don't see the point. Most breeders who early breed know what they are doing. Those who let the new owners do this procedure have a lot of archives to search through! I don't see how it would help being a sticky, when you can search!

I don't see any harm in a sticky that would give a first time member or "viewer" of the forum a place to start when i know alot of folks are not always ready to just jump in, but are looking for info, fast!

I don't see why not! There is a lot of good info in there especially for any potential first time breeders.

With the Yorkie getting so diluted because of bad breeding (I'm always thinking of the mass amount of ads on puppyfind) I want to be somethign that new breeders shoudl also consider at least. It's too easy nowadays for someone to buy a puppy with 'limited' registration. I see some CKC puppies being sold for more than some AKC puppies. Beacuse CKC ignores AKC limited reg. I dont' know what you guys think, but I sure woudl like to see some control of this over populating.

I TOTALLY agree! When I see ads like that I wonder if I'm charging enough! ;)

I just don't understand what putting a sticky on something like that, has to due with irresponsible breeders. Seriously, I don't think that particular thread was started to help cut down on unscrupulous people with no morals. If I am wrong please correct me, but the thread starter said she wanted to know if this was healthy for a small young pup, not if it would stop cross registration of litters...
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SoCalyorkiLvr
Donating YT 7000 Club Member




Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,754 Early Spay/Neuter

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I have wanted to start a thread about this for a while and it came up again tonight in a couple of threads with breeders rightfully concerned about protecting their lines.

I just wondered about how the procedure, for example, is different, if it is, for a puppy under 12 weeks, at what age or weight do they consider it safe, are the risks greater than for an older puppy, and that sort of thing? I know that the breeders who do this are concerned about the health and well being of their babies so I know they would not risk their health un reasonably but I know that I am petrified of putting my tiny dogs at 8 months under aneshtesia much less a young pup under a lb.

Hefner was under a lb when I got him at 12 weeks and he was already neutered.

My feelings on neutering are well known on here and I really am not looking for a debate about this but just the facts and any studies that anyone is aware of that prove this procedure is safe for young puppies.

Thanks in advance for your replies.
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That's why I think it doesn't need a sticky! JMHO!!!

It has nothing to do with irresponsible breeders Monet. It went from a basically good idea to prices, registries, ect. Now I say forget it.

I have to agree, I think the OP of the Early S/N post thread is anti-spade/neuter. I don't think this thread would help with the issue of stopping bad breeding. JMO

here is the only early spay/neuter thread I found. :confused:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29229

The registries are just to show how breeders that feel they want to protect their puppies by asking for limited registration are not really protected. For examply, UKC from what I understand ignores AKC limited reg too. I could be wrong but when I heard that that's what prompted me to just spay and neuter. It really has nothing to do with prices or registries but the fact that puppies you produce are still at risk to be bred buy someone. They don't have to register with anything to still do the samething.

Ok don't sticky it. Just thought it would help those that wanted to know if it's safe or not.

It's just providing facts for those that were considering it nor not considering it.

I'm not real sure what a sticky is but am assuming it's a permanent place here for the thread. Since this question is brought up so much, I personally think it would be of benefit to have it handy somewhere that people could refer to.

Yes, to make the info permanent.

My 2 cents ....
 

I think that any time good information, that an informed breeder is asked to repeat several times, is available .... it should become a "sticky" for immediate reference/consideration. If it's questions that come up time & time again .... just read the sticky & be done with it! ;)

I understand where you were coming from, however that particular thread on early spay/neuter doesn't come off very positive.

Boy this is a tough one
 

Ditto Goldenray. I think we're all one the same page when it comes to trying to keep our precious pups out of the hands of some nasty mill or breeder. There's a lot of consideration and research needed.

For me, we need a lot more discussion on the issue before it is resolved as a "good" thing for "every pet pup" imo. I don't mind it being a "sticky" as long as the discussion can continue.

I mean we have not addressed the fact that some vets feel a dog has MORE health benefits from not being neutered, or the fact that there are alternatives to a full neuter as we in the US are used to. There is tubal ligation, removal of just the uterus in the female for example and vasectomy for the boys...all of which are less invasive, and less risky but still leave the animal incapable of reproducing. I would like responsible breeders to consider some of these options which I feel benefit the pups. :thumbup:

Hi Kim!

As we know these pros/cons are facts. The support of a pro or con, is only matter of opinions. We can't know everything about it because we are not vets. But hopefully the info on a thread like this will prompt some questions to be posed to many vets. Which, in time, may increase popularity in the tough questions regarding ONLY the age and sugical procedure. We need ot give vets a push, or be the squeaky wheel to be more educated and well versed on the procedure at an early age and hone in on the pros/cons to help all of us make a better decision. This post is not telling anyone what to do, but to ask about the procedure. It all boils down to comfort levels and personal opinions based on what has been researched on the net.

Hi Kim. I can't even imagine in this day and age any vet saying there are more health benefits from not spaying/neutering since all research from the vet universities say otherwise. After many years of experience for myself and others I know, I can say the same. I see no reason to just render the dog unable to produce, when I can do a full spay or neuter and get those hormones out of there at the same time and prevent later problems from happening. The health benefits are worth my doing the full spay/neuter and as I said, it also makes potty training easier, which I am all for. :)

Thank you for saying this :thumbup: - and I think most agree with you. It's pretty obvious hearing from the many breeders out there that the benefits of S/N far outweigh any risks....it's such a common procedure and I think it sends the wrong signals to see someone saying don't do it.

Great post! I to agree with what you are saying. If certain parts are left in, then wouldn't they turn cancerous? :confused:

Very true Kimberly, they can get cancer, just like with us. So it prevents later uterine cancer, etc, along with preventing breast cancer and most others. You reduce the chances of getting any of those by altering the dog. Each time they come in heat you increase that risk. Once they have something go wrong and you are forced to spay, the dog's health is now compromised because of some other risk factor and the surgery goes from mild to extremely serious.

I completely agree w/ everything you have said. I think that it is important that everyone examine both sides of the procedure, pros & cons, and make what THEY feel like it the BEST decision for themselves. I see more pros than the cons which are possibilities, but again, this is just MY OPINION.

My vet highly recommended spaying by 6 months of age .... his recommendation was based on research he had done, not on what he had read in his veterinary journals. This was over 25 years ago! Every vet I have had occasion to discuss this subject with still make the same recommendation even now and for all the same reasons! I would think after all these years, if the early research were wrong, we would know it by now?

[KRAP!! I just realized that this is off-topic .... sorry! And, yes, I think there should be a sticky compiling the experience/knowledge of the wonderful breeders that we have on YT!]

Kim~Not to be disrespectful, but these issues have been brought up MANY times, just not in this thread. I think I am correct in stating that you have been involved in the majority of these conversations. I agree with you, there is room for discussion of cons, as well as pros of the procedure. Also the newer, less invasive procedures are something everyone needs to be aware of. However, I think we ALL will admit and must be aware that when they are discussed in threads that get heated and locked, nothing is accomplished and nothing positive is taken away from it.

I know that the more progressive vets are definitely recognizing thsi and are opting for less invasive procedures like in Spain for example where they only remove the uterus because they understand the benefit if the reproductive hormones to the lifetime health of the female dog. Gina1978 has more info on this.

What is the difference between a progressive Vet, and a regular Vet..You guys are seriously confusing me, now!! :confused: