New Puppies- Cesarian Delivery
 

Hello everyone!

My Lola's pups were delivered yesterday via C-section.
Mom and pups are doing well so far.
We have 1 boy and 1 girl.

I wanted to start this new thread so I can ask newborn-puppy questions.

My first question is about the pups latching on to mom's vulva.
Is this normal?

Mom is having a bloody discharge post surgery, which the vet told me to expect. I'm wondering whether this could pose a problem for the pups?

Also, Lola has this occasional moaning. I'm assuming this is from discomfort from the C-section and the pups nursing…should I be concerned?

Thanks

It is not unusual for the pups to try to latch onto the vulva. Just move them when you see them doing that.

It is not unusual for a female to show some discomfort after having a c-section. Did the vet give her any pain medicine? Usually if they are in a lot of pain they will shake and tremble.

Do she have plenty of milk? Is she eating since you got her home?

Sometimes it will take them a couple of day after surgery before they have a bowel movement.

Hi! She doesn't have pain meds, she was only given amoxicillin (50 mg 2x/day) and half tab of petcal daily. She's not moaning a lot, but does it occasionally, usually when pups are latched, I guess because the area must be sore. No trembling or shaking so far.

I'm not sure about her milk supply. Her nipples look much larger and brighter pink (almost red) than during pregnancy. Pups are latching on and not crying….but I just weighed them and they're lighter than yesterday? Is it the same as human babies that usually drop a little weight after birth or should I be concerned they're not getting enough? I was thinking if they were quiet, they were satisfied…am I wrong?

Yesterday she refused any solid food. I did do some of the home recipes listed in stickies here, so she had some of the goat milk, water, egg yolk, and corn syrup mixture. Actually, she liked that quite a bit. I also made the pudding and she likes that as well. She's had nautical too. Today, I got her to eat some white rice with chicken broth and a little bit of chicken. She has had a bowel movement already and has urinated quite a bit.

Anything I can do better? I really want to give her the best chance.

Thanks

You should be able to squeeze a nipple and see the milk come out. Keep and eye on her teats and make sure they don't get hard. I imagine since she is on amoxicillin you should not have to worry about mastitis right now.

It sounds like you are doing a good job taking care of momma and babies. Hopefully the babies will start gaining. Just make sure momma eats about 4 or 5 times a day. I often have to hand feed my new mommas the first few weeks.

The milk supply is kind of critical information to know....if she is not producing milk, that would explane why the puppies are dropping weight rather than gaining weight. I always weigh my babies twice a day, and I can pin point when a problem is manifesting quietly...the puppy stops gaining weight and drops weight......healthy puppies that are getting enough to eat do NOT drop weight.....that is not acceptable. I hate it when vets send dogs home without pain med. following surgery. You obviously can not put the momma to sleep with large doses of pain meds, but a little med to just take the edge off the pain is only compassionate.....she should NEVER get to the point where she is shaking and trembling in pain, ,,,,, Anytime I have had to section one of my mommas, my vet gives me Torbutrol in Vitamino for the pain, and I give her a low dose, every 4-6 hours, to give her some relief....the low dose does not affect the babies and it keeps my lady from suffering in pain. I only need to give it the day of surgery and first post op day....she is usually getting much better by the second post op day, needing the med only once or twice in a 12 hour period. If those babies do not turn around and start gaining weight, I would be doing supplemental feedings. There are many formulas in the Breeding section for supplemental feedings immediately.....I personally dont like having to make up lost ground......you really should be "milking" each teat to be sure she is producing milk, especially the vital colostrum those babies require from momma for protection against diseases....just plain canned puppy milk is not really the optimum choice, especially since they have already started to drop weight.

Thanks! All nipples are soft and she had been hand fed initially, and still most of the time, but early this evening she did walk to the dish with rice and ate on her own. She still won' touch the other dish with the mixed dry and wet dog food. Still taking Nutrical, and the other home recipes well.

Ok…I will get right to it. I'll do a manual check on mom. Is there anything additional I can do to help her milk production?

Just wondering why pups don't cry if they're not getting enough milk? Is this typical? Could they be ill?

I only saw a small clear drop produced from some of the nipples. I find it hard to believe that there isn't anything there considering the puppy behavior- they latch on, don't fuss at the nipple, then sleep comfortably. Am I wrong to expect this to be signs of them getting milk and being full?

In any case, I am concerned about the weight drop. Additional to supplementing for the pups, is there anything I can do to improve milk production?

What you may be seeing is colostrum. Did you try all her nipples? If the pups had just nursed on her you might not see as much but since there are only two pups I would think she would be full of milk.

You could make her some whelping pudding and that might help bring her milk in better. The pups should have full bellies and they should be nursing every couple of hours.

If they are nursing and not getting enough milk then they will slowly get weaker so I pray they are getting enough.

How Long After the Baby Puppies Are Born Does the Mother Give Milk? | Dog Care - The Daily Puppy

I did check but only a few showed. She's been on the whelping pudding since yesterday, it's one of the few things she would actually take when we got home.

I feel like such a fool not checking this earlier. I was so happy to see them latch on and her taking care of them, that I didn't think anything was wrong. Babies' bellies are a little pudgy but not quite round.

If I was in your position, I would start supplemental feeding before the pups get weaker and loose more weight. If they are latching onto momma, they may latch onto a bottle nipple....however you decide to give the feedings, if you do decide to do that, you need to be sure they are getting 1cc of formula per ounce of the pups body weight.

Look into fenugreek to help with milk production.

That's what we used with my momma dog. Be warned she will smell like maple syrup after taking it. It's a capsule, and I would just open it and sprinkle on her whelping pudding or mix in with some yogurt.

Thank you! I did start last night. No gain yet, but at least no additional loss. I fed until they tired out and fell asleep and had full round tummies. I would wiggle the bottle nipple a little and sometimes they took a little more, sometimes they went back to sleep, then I handed them over to mom to clean them up.

I have been feeding more frequent than every 2 hours…more like every 1 1/2 hours. Now that I know how much they need, I'll be more mindful of the actual amount.

How frequent should they take this amount of milk?

I've been on a loop…feed puppies, try to feed momma (she's gone back to not wanting anything solid and trying to bury under the bedding whatever food is offered??? Not sure what that's all about. Any ideas? She did just accept 2 crackers, but tried to bury the 3rd).

And when that's all done, I might just have enough time to use the bathroom or grab a bite, and then it starts all over again.

Thanks! I'll look into it.

I have nothing to add but wish you and Lola/babies the best. Breeding these little things is not an easy job.

[QUOTE=PamperedYorkies;4387568]Thank you! I did start last night. No gain yet, but at least no additional loss. I fed until they tired out and fell asleep and had full round tummies. I would wiggle the bottle nipple a little and sometimes they took a little more, sometimes they went back to sleep, then I handed them over to mom to clean them up.

I have been feeding more frequent than every 2 hours…more like every 1 1/2 hours. Now that I know how much they need, I'll be more mindful of the actual amount.

How frequent should they take this amount of milk?

I've been on a loop…feed puppies, try to feed momma (she's gone back to not wanting anything solid and trying to bury under the bedding whatever food is offered??? Not sure what that's all about. Any ideas? She did just accept 2 crackers, but tried to bury the 3rd).

And when that's all done, I might just have enough time to use the bathroom or grab a bite, and then it starts all over again.[/QUOTE]
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Welcome to the world of breeding....be thankful you only have a litter of two and not 4 or 5......you would know the feeling of feeding a puppy while YOU take a minute to go to the bathroom....or feeding a puppy while YOU eat! How often you will feed depends on the puppies. They get hungry about every 1.5 - 2 hours....you continue to feed 1 cc per oz of body weight. Weigh them at least once a day, preferably twice a day. Feed them like that until they start to gain weight, and continue every two hours for at least a week....you can advance to every three hours, and as long as they do not loose weight, you are OK...if they start to loose weight, go back down to every 1.5 hours. They should be gaining weight every day...not standing still, definately not loosing....I am hoping you are using one of the formulas and not just canned puppy milk....my formula will deliver 16 calories per cc....you have to be giving enough calories for those babies to not only gain weight, but to thrive and develop....make sure you feed it warm, they can not digest cold formula. Be sure puppy is warm while you feed...I put a couple of dry wash cloths in the dryer and get them warm.....wrap the baby in a warm wash cloth while you feed....Just keep giving momma that whelping pudding and try the fenugreek like MicheleM suggested...I have never had to use that stuff so I know nothing about it....Good luck....stick with it and remember, you can get some sleep in a month or so!

Thank you!

[quote=Yorkiemom1;4387581]
What is your recipe? I'm currently using goat milk, water, corn syrup.

Mom needs to eat and take in plenty of fluids.

I always keep plenty of Cesar on hand for my new Moms. It's not the best food, but they rarely turn it down. I also add some water to it since they often won't drink enough on their own.

I also boil up some beef liver and mix it in. It is very nutrient dense and has a great restorative effect. You can use the broth instead of water to mix into the food.

I don't feed the liver with every meal. It's kind of rich, but feeding some once a day is fine.

My recipe is:
1 can Just Born with Colostrum
4 oz Pedialyte
1 cup Live Cultured Yogurt
1 raw egg yolk
4 TBSP Dr. Millers Pet Nurta Drops (you can substitute 4 tbsp Karo syrup and 1 TBSP Vi-Daylin Pediatric vitamins)
This formula will provide 14-16 calories/cc, depending on whether you have to substitute Karo and pediatric vitamins. Babies will thrive on this....mix it up and refridgerate for a week. When I have just one or two babies, I pour half in ice tray and freeze so you are not wasting so much....

Great! I just boiled some liver last night to use the water on the pups. Glad I didn't throw it away…she has taken some of the liver water, so I'll try a small piece of liver…that might work.

Thank you!

Awesome! Thank you! Where do you typically purchase the 'Just Boen with Colostrum'? Is there anything else that can be used in its place if I can't find it?

PS- saw a bit of a gain on the last weigh-in…hoping they're turning around. Thank you soooo much for your extremely valuable information. You made me think with my head and not with my overwhelmed emotions!

Aslo, did another nipple check on Lola and although not a lot, what I managed to express from the nipples was milk-colored…hopefully that will also work out as the pups still latch on to mom looking for food.

Found it. How often do you give it? She seemed to like it with her whelping pudding.
I'd like to make sure I'm not giving too much or too little.

Thanks

I purchase my Just Born with Colostrum from Revival vet supply....you can get it from
PetCo, I think....

I saw it online at Petco, but it's powdered. Will this be ok?
What about Esbilac? I noticed the nutritional content is a little on the heavier side. I already have some of this, although I have not used it yet.

I have never used it....you are cutting it with the Pedialyte, so I think it will be just fine.

Thanks!

Pups just took a very large feeding (6-7 ml). Can this hurt them in any way? It's the first feeding where I'm measuring and feeding rather than just letting them feed until they tired out. Bellies look roughly the same size, so it could very well be they've been having this much all along. But considering they're just above 4oz, and the expected intake is 1 mL/ oz of body weight…I guess it surprised me to see how much they actually took.

It did take them a little longer from last feeding to this one, so they're not taking this much every 1 1/2 hours, last feeding was actually 3 hrs prior. It was a nice break, but should I be enticing them to eat more frequently?

Sorry I ask so many questions. I just want to make sure I'm doing everything the best possible way.

Are the pups still nursing on their momma? Is she producing any more milk? I think it is more important that they get milk from momma first and them supplement them if they are still hungry. The more the pups suck on their momma the more milk she will produce. Is she eating any better?

Hello! I'll use this reply to respond to your post as well as update everyone who's following.

Mom did eat a little more in the past 12 hours. She had a small piece of boiled beef liver last night and some white rice/chicken broth/dog canned food mix. Not as much as she typically eats and nowhere near as much as she ate during pregnancy, but definitely more than she has been eating. She's still having Nutrical twice a day, whelping pudding several times a day and goat milk/water/eggyolk/corn syrup mix quite a bit. After pups are fed, I'll sit next to her and try to hand feed her. Yesterday the only thing I could get her to eat earlier in the day (other than milk & pudding) were a few crackers. Then, anything she doesn't want, she'll take it from your hand, drop it and try to flip some of the bedding over it! She'll try to do the same with any dishes I leave out (I leave a few dishes with a variety of food options hoping she'll be tempted to try some during one of her potty trips). I can't explain this behavior. But yes, we still need to keep working on making her eat more.

Today so far, she has not easily let me check her for milk and I'm giving myself a little time ('till the cup of coffee kicks in) before I try to maneuver her to check…I feel a little hesitant about not being careful enough and hurt her incision area, so I want to give myself some time to feel alert, but definitely will be doing that soon. I do want to check because at the latest feeding, the pups didn't take as much supplement milk as they had for the 2 prior feedings. The interval between feedings went longer too. When I checked at the time I would have fed them, they were latched on, so I let it go to give them time to keep trying on mom. Then when I saw they weren't really fussing or crying for milk, I got scared and decided to try to feed them anyway, but their tummies were pretty full, so I'm hoping this means they're getting milk from mom and not that they're having some kind of digestive issue :S

As of the last weight-check this morning, pups have gone up about 0.2-0.3 oz from their lowest weight. I don't have a real good feel for where they should be and whether this increase is enough or not. When I pick up the pups, they seem a little shaky and I'm not sure whether this is newborn instability or if it's a sign of something wrong. They do steady once I lay them down, but they'll still crank their neck away from the milk during feeding. Wondering whether this is normal or should I be worried?

Can't think of any other concerns at the moment, but I'm sure the questions will keep coming. Thanks to everyone trying to help! I truly appreciate it!

It sounds like they may be getting more milk from the momma. The turning their head away might be because they are full. It is normal for the pups to be squirmy when you pick them up. Do the pups stay with the momma all the time?

Have you tried soaking some dry food and adding goodies to it like scrambled eggs or boiled chicken and rice. I seems like now her appetite would be picking up. It could be she is eating so much of the other stuff that she does not want her regular food. You might even try adding some soaked dry food to her whelping pudding.