Burgundy Wee Bloodline
 

Hi I'm Cheri. This is my first post but I have followed along with the forum for a long time. I breed Yorkies. Just hobby. They are my babies and live in my home as part of my family.
I have just got a litter, well just one baby, out of my beautiful little guy
Cheri's Burgundy Wee Ziggy DeBigafa. I have waited for 2 years for him to be ready to become a papa.
I am just wondering if anyone else knows anything about this blood line. I do know that Natalie Nelson has spent 30 years perfecting the line. Does anyone else have any info about the bloodline.
Thanks to everyone.

If you've been here a long time than you should know....Natalie's breeding program is amongst the worst...Sorry but truth is truth dear.

Also, this thread is in the wrong section...

Here's one thread of interest:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...e-yorkies.html

I don't know anything of this particular bloodline or the breeder(Natalie). If you have questions about her bloodline I think the best person to ask would be Natalie herself. I'm sure she would love to talk about it with a fellow breeder! But anyway great to have you here!!!:welcome4: and I can't wait to see your pups pics!

:thumbup::thumbup:

First welcome to YT. Sorry to say you won't get very good responses on Natalie if she is the same one who is a member here who breeds for tinies and claims to have perfected it.

I only know of two Yorkie breeders familiar with the Burgundy lines. The first is Joan Gordon with Wildweir Kennels talks about the Burgundy's in her book The Complete Yorkshire Terrier. I don't believe she bred Burgundy lines but she discusses them in her book. Every Yorkie breeder should read this book. Most Yorkie breeder call it the Yorkie Bible.

The second person is Carolyn Arnold. She researched and bred the lines but only for a short time. Carolyn is a biochemist and has been a Yorkie breeder for years. She is very knowledgeable and would certainly be honest with you about her experience with the Burgundy lines. I don't believe that she was pleased with the outcome therefore ceased the breeding program. Just recently, Carolyn retired from breeding completely but she lives in Gig Harbor, WA. Her kennel name is Yorkshire Terriers of Caralyn - a combination of her name and her husband Larry.

While I am happy with traditional Yorkies and I know nothing about the Burgundy lines, I hope that you do your research and due diligence to breed healthy, happy Yorkies.

One more link for you to review. I guess if I had a dog, and I was going to breed him, I would want to read everything I could about the breeder I purchased him from. That would be called - responsible.

No other commentary needed.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gre...e-yorkies.html

Please dont let how one person "left a bad taste in your mouth" stop you from posting! I've never heard of this particular breeder and have had no dealings with her so I can't give my opinion on whether she's a reputable breeder or not. I base my opinions on my own experiences with a person/situation :). Is the bloodline you're referring to breeding for partis and nontraditional colors? I'm looking to add an "off color" yorkie to my bunch in the spring and you're located about 3 hours from Fort Hood. I would love to hear about your breeding program and see pics of your baby(ies). If you want feel free to pm me :)

Thank you so much, Tricia. This is the kind of info I am looking for.
I am not a new breeder. I have been breeding for 8 years. I just wanted to connect with others familiar with this line. I know Jan Loetz originated the line but didn't have too much more info than that.
I consider myself a responsible breeder and if you want to get to know me then please look at my site and my breeding program. I love my dogs as my family and they receive the best care possible. My puppies aren't sold to any one with the $$$$
My puppy families are part of my extended family and I have formed some wonderful friendships over the years. I don't want to criticize anyone for their thoughts or beliefs. That is theirs to own. I think being positive and unbiased is a good way to learn and grow from others experiences. Again, thank you so much for the info, Tricia.

OMG>>>>>Your website Yorkies by Cheri literally almost made me vomit...You say you have been around YT a long time?????? REALLY...You breed for tiny, you use the word tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, a million times and you breed 2pound Yorkie and a 3# Pups??? Seriously, that's as far as I got...Cheri, I have absolutely no respect for people who breed like you...I left a bad taste in your mouth? You can't imagine what breeding programs such as yours leave in mine...

http://yorkiesbycheri.com/

Looks like you've been a breeder for awhile - so you are probably asking about the Wee line because there's an issue. I can see why you got defensive though now looking at your own site.

Do you breed other breeds besides yorkies and s**tzus?

I have to say - you are the first person to list a Dam at under 3 pounds (2 3/4) that I've ever seen with another at 3 pounds - AKC recommends over 5... have you ever lost a dam? I'm curious - seems like you are breeding outside of the Standard 4-7 pounds - yet you list yourself as AKC and UKC...

This is very sad to me. :(

YORKIES BY CHERI - DAMS

All I can say is WOW. I have a 3lb girl and I would never ever put her life in danger like that. You say you want to breed responsible but how in the world do you justify that??? Ask any reputable and I mean a real reputable breeder and they will tell you never to breed under 5lb dams. Are you sure you aren't part of Natalies program? Because this is exactly why she has the reputation she does here. I have seen so many yorkies that were bred to be tiny die before they reached the age of 2 it is sickening. Makes me cry when I think about watching one with seizures who spun on her side and made the most horrifying screams all because a breeder wanted to breed for tinies. :(.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thum bup:

Off standard, off colored and under-sized. Sending tiny pups home at 8 weeks. Offering full registration so others can be irresponsible breeders for an extra charge. A "guarantee" that isn't worth the paper it's printed on. I find the entire thing very, very sad. Your breeding program leaves an extremely bad taste in MY mouth. Thank you, though. When people come looking for information on what to look for in a great breeder, we can point them to your site as an example of what to avoid.

Yvonne, I normally do not comment on these type of threads, I have learned in my years on Yorkie Talk that breeders are going to believe what they want. I will say when looking at your site some of the Mom Yorkies look the so small even with their babies laying beside them.

I have never been a one who wanted a "tiny" Yorkie, I like my big 8 lb girl who can tumble with the best of them.

No wonder you are interested in Natalies lines since you are breeding under sized dogs yourself theres no hope for you at all

I like my moms to be big , bold, and beautyful, any one that breeds 3 lbs female is just simply greedy , with no feelings for the poor female. liz

I don't agree with the breeding of undersized females, but can you automatically assume that this breeder is only interested in this person's lines with bad intentions? She already has a pup from Natalie. So although I would recommend researching the lines before purchasing a pup from those lines maybe she just wants a bit more info which she stated in her introduction. She just happened to mention she got her pup from Natalie because that is who she's had the most information on so far it seems. Can we just answer the ladies question please? If you disagree with some of her breeding practices why not just send her a pm? I know we all have different ways of approaching situations but at no time should a member new or old feel so uncomfortable that they don't want to post anymore.

You are correct, I did not address the question originally asked by the OP and for that I apologize. I know nothing about bloodlines, my Yorkie is a pet/family member/big love in my life and that is all she ever will be. I was just shocked when I looked at the pictures of her babies and saw how small the Mom's appear to be.

I meant no disrespect to the OP, in fact in my opinion I was anything but rude (honest and direct is not rude). OP I am sorry I cannot add anyting to your question on a specific bloodline, good luck with finding additional information.

[QUOTE=SophieKatesMom;4314191] I meant no disrespect to the OP, in fact in my opinion I was anything but rude (honest and direct is not rude)./QUOTE]


It wasn't directed towards you :). I think your reply was exactly what you said it was: direct and honest without being rude. It was for those who the OP stated made her not want to post in the future. I would love for her to continue to post so she could learn from whatever mistakes she's making in her breeding program and correct them. :)

I am sorry, I rarely say anything against breeders who come asking questions but this one has been a member of YT a long time and should know it is not good to breed these tiny pups. Natalies pups have had some very severe problems pop up recently so if this stops an unsuspecting buyer from heartache I think we need to let them know we do not approve of their breeding practices.

In general I agree with what you are saying below but I want to point out something that I think is important and why I personally made a comment as to her breeding.

The way I read her OP: She is breeding the pup from Natalie ALREADY (from her own post).

OP already advertises the Wee linage on her website.

When people started telling her about Natalie's lines - she herself became rude - before anyone else said a thing about her breeding. I think when you are a breeder and you are asking about breeding lines - and you hear other information - you shouldn't shut the conversation down.

I personally would want to know if a pup I was already breeding came from another breeder that had problems in their lines. I would NOT become angry and call them VILE when people were trying to point this out.

OP asked a question. It naturally flowed to more info than she wanted. That's how threads flow.

As far as my commenting on the size of her pups - I feel that if you are breeding and selling dogs, and are breeding a LINE that you don't know about, it becomes part of the discussion.

Could people be gentler in their words? Perhaps, but she had already decided people were rude the minute she was told something different about Natalie than she wanted to hear - so who knows.

Bottom line if I see someone breeding dams under 3 pounds and breeding a line they are asking about - why is that not up for discussion? It does tie into the original question in my opinion.

Conversations rarely flow controlled like we want them to. I agree courtesy should always prevail.

And I wanted to add one more thing about courtesy.

The OP after only a few posts that I personally didn't read in any way as off topic or rude or attacking - called people VILE and something else - can't remember now because it was removed, so courtesy should flow in all directions.

One more thing - this is from the OP's website for those of you interested in info on the line... (not sure if it is factual just reposting)

Burgundy Wee Bloodline Origin

http://www.yorkiesbycheri.com/burgundy-wee-bloodlineorigin


The Wee Burgundy Line originated with Jan Lotze. She took the best, tiny Yorkies, with pretty, short muzzles and baby doll faces, square/cobby little bodies and produced wonderfully tiny Yorkies. She bred for this look and size for over 30 years. She has now retired from breeding Yorkies.


Natalie Nelson, of Watertown, South Dakota continues the line and has finessed and improved it for another thirty years. Natalie originated her line with her tiny little male, Burgundy Wee The Cookieman (one pound four ounces) and Natalie's Little Katie.
I got my fantastic little boy, Ziggy, from Natalie. His papa is a son of The Cookieman, and his namesake, Ziggy Boy De Bigafa is his great grandfather on his mothers pedigree side. He descends from a long line of American and Canadian Champions.
My tiny little Ziggy, Cheri's Burgundy Wee Ziggy De Bigafa, weighs just under three pounds. He is the light of my life. Always busy, terribly precocious and an all around lover boy. I waited for 18 months for Ziggy to come into his Adulthood. He was 6 months

Sorry more of you go to the actual link there are links to the liniage:

YORKIES BY CHERI - Our Sire Cheri's Ziggy Boy

Our Sire: Cheri's Burgundy Wee Ziggy De Bigafa


http://d2bm3ljpacyxu8.cloudfront.net...m/DSCN0708.JPG




Ziggy is AKC registered. He has a fantastic pedigree. He is out of Natalie's Wee Nina and Natalies' Lewis. He is from the Burgundy Wee Bloodline. Bred for their extremely tiny pedigree. His mother is from Argentina and has a tremendous Champion Pedigree. Ziggy came to us from Natalies Little Yorkies in South Dakota.

I planned the addition of Ziggy to my breeding program for 2 years. I had to wait for 6 months to get him home. as he was so very small. He is now, at 18 months, almost 3 pounds. He is a precocious little minx with tons of personality. He has no idea he is a tiny boy. He stays head to head with my big dogs and he is the first to greet you at the door and the first to say good bye. Now that he is a proven stud, he thinks he is the only Rooster in the Hen House.
Ziggy has fantastic conformation, beautiful dark, expressive eyes and tiny ears that stand straight up.
He has a gorgeous silky coat of black and gold with blue hi-lites. He is a very unique little guy and a wonderful addition to my breeding program. He sleeps right beside me in his very own little crib.

Soooo it kinda makes you wonder if she had all this info on her website why is she asking the question to begin with.:confused:

The numbers of yorkies I am seeing with genetic issues and the numbers I see in shelters in this state are just ridiculous.
THIS kind of breeding is part of a huge problem.
I have no time to answer her questions that I am sure she already knows; and be darned if I have to be polite to anyone who abuses yorkies. Breeding such tiny yorkies is abuse. Period.
As for her learning...good luck with that. She knows full well what she is doing.

Thank you for all who extend courtesy to those who are seeking information. Whether you're being blunt (I'm pretty blunt myself and had to learn to soften my words with the setting I was working in) or gently providing your advice. I've met many people with yorkies since I've moved and I always tell them about this forum, but I've also had people tell me their reluctant to post because of some of the responses they've seen on different threads from the same people. It's ridiculous! If I saw a mother come in the clinic holding a baby wrong and she asked me about parenting would I automatically say "There's no hope for you! Or I'll be damned if I help you!" He!! No! Even if I think the mother is a dingbat and should never have had children to begin with. I'll deal with her for the benefit of the child because at the end of it all that's who I'm trying to help and who will be benefiting from the education I've given the mother and hopefully she will use it. If she doesn't I can at least say I tried Some people on this forum have so much compassion for animals and I applaud it but some are also completely lacking in compassion for their fellow "man".

Hi Cheri,
Welcome to Yorkie Talk. You will find this site full of useful information.

I owned a yorkie out of the Wee Burgundy line, she did not live a long life due to genetic defects. Another breeder I know of, purchased one from this line and he passed away around the age of 1. It's sad when these tiny ones don't get to enjoy the long life they deserve.

After some research, it seems that quite a few breeders who have purchased from this line end up NOT breeding their line because it's too unpredictable as to whether you'll actually end up with a healthy offspring. High vet bills and "replacing" puppies can be expensive and stressful. Others who do continue to sell them, have already lined their pockets enough that they can afford this kind of inconvenience, sadly.

I do not know you but if you love yorkies enough to seek out a board for help, then please do a little more research before continuing your breeding practices. Sometimes, just loving an animal as a pet/companion is better choice.

I see that you are interested in one of her puppies. Good luck with that....I suggest you start saving your money to deal with any medical issues.

I don't like your insinuations...because I don't care to see animals abused by people, I am lacking compassion for my "fellow man"? Your analogy just makes no sense to me .. a mother learning to care for her child and this breeder are in the same league? Fellow man? Nope..not my fellow man. Perhaps yours, but not mine.

As for your comments regarding this forum, please try to keep in mind that everyone has an opinion and opinions can be and should be voiced. This is how we all learn.