A Breeder told me she is not a puppy mill - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Reneevil · 07-15-2013, 12:37 PM

I happened to find out that the place I got my puppy from had in the year 2009 206 adult dogs in a pole barn on her property. I called her dog breeding business a puppy mill. She sent me a note today stating she does not appreciate my spreading lies about her dog business and that she is not a puppy mill and she takes very good care of her puppies with the appropriate shots, vet care, etc. She states her dogs are healthy and come with guarantees. A true puppy mill would not provide a guarantee.
While it is very responsible of her to breed healthy puppies, can a couple of women adequately care for that many adult dogs and gosh knows how many puppies? Can they provide daily exercise, clean crates, etc? To me, not being able to provide a quality of life is one of the definitions of a puppy mill. They are making money while an animal is neglected.
I found information on this breeder through Animal Folks MN. A copy of her inspection report is there.
Am I wrong in calling her a puppy mill?

lovespandp · 07-15-2013, 12:39 PM

I don’t think you are wrong at all. It is a very sad thing and I think those people should be called out for it.

lovespandp · 07-15-2013, 12:40 PM

P.S Welcome to YT!

jeane · 07-15-2013, 12:45 PM

Welcome to YT

Kaitlynx89 · 07-15-2013, 12:54 PM

No you are not wrong at all!

P.S. Welcome to YT!

Verbena · 07-15-2013, 01:23 PM

Welcome to YT. You did the right thing. Do not let her make you feel bad

Yorkiemom1 · 07-15-2013, 01:23 PM

Who is the breeder? What is the kennel name?

MikaTallulah · 07-15-2013, 06:42 PM

There is no way that many dogs are being taken care of mentally. Physically yes but not mentally. My rescue dog, Buddy, was 1 of 3 dogs when I got him from his previous owner but he was greatly undersocialized to everything. He now leaves with 3 yorkies was 4 yorkies at the time but he gets far more 1:1 attention daily with me than he ever got from his previous owner.

Lovetodream88 · 07-15-2013, 06:47 PM

She is lying they are a puppy mill.

gemy · 07-18-2013, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikaTallulah

There is no way that many dogs are being taken care of mentally. Physically yes but not mentally. My rescue dog, Buddy, was 1 of 3 dogs when I got him from his previous owner but he was greatly undersocialized to everything. He now leaves with 3 yorkies was 4 yorkies at the time but he gets far more 1:1 attention daily with me than he ever got from his previous owner.

With two folks for 209 dogs at 30 minute exercise time a day alone, that is 104.5 hours per day, divided by 2 folks is 52.25 hours per day........ per person.

Even if you say you can exercise 4 dogs together in one session - ie 4 on leads then the max two folks could exercise in an eight hour day = 4X2x2 16 dogs per hour x eight hours = 128 dogs mulitpled by two folks = 256 dogs.

Now recall they also need grooming, feeding, vetting too. So in my less than humble opinion two folks working full time could not possibly see to the needs of 209 animals in anywhere close to optimal time for physical exercise.

It also means that if they can get other exercise through dog runs, you probably looking at maximum exposure time outside their crates, at about one hour per day, with the other 23 hours spent in a crate.

yorkietalkjilly · 07-18-2013, 10:34 AM

She can call it what she wants and deny, deny, deny but if there are only two people housing any number of dogs that are kept in a barn and bred every female estrus with no thought to health testing of the breeding dogs, no selection of breeding pairs for betterment of the breed with a full knowledge of genetics and temperament, no socialization, training, life enrichment, exercises and living the life of a beloved pet 24/7/365, it's a puppymill to me. But if you say that number of adult dogs was 206 plus puppies a few years back and if she's still going at it this day and age - I'd report her to the authorities and every agency and organization that I could.

MyTrixie143 · 07-18-2013, 10:36 AM

Puppy mill is a bad word, everyone knows this. Do you think a puppy mill will actually admit that they are a puppy mill? No because that would ruin their business and effect their profits and that is the only reason they are doing it. It's like walking into a Petland and asking if their puppies come from puppy mills. They will always tell you that they don't even if you can trace the puppies back to a puppy mill.

So no you aren't wrong in calling her a puppy mill and I wouldn't expect her to ever admit to it.

Reneevil · 08-28-2013, 06:07 AM

I sent her a message back telling her as nicely as I could, that I disagree that she is a good breeder and her dogs are absolutely neglected and probably suffering. I am pretty sure she found my post here on Yorkie Talk and knew it was me that posted. Her "family" business has gone on for 3 generations and I'm sure her small town knows exactly what she does on her farm. If I didn't mention it before breeders name is Brenda Lange and Susan Boyd and they have a website Pups2pets.net. BTW: my vet has confirmed my 6 month old puppy has hip dysplasia in her rear left hip.

theporkieyorkie · 08-28-2013, 06:57 AM

I don't see why any breeder would have 200 dogs unless they were a puppy mill cranking out puppies....or they are a hoarder.....and in any case, neither's good.

If you've ever watched "Pitbulls and Parolees" on animal planet, Tia runs a rescue kennel of about 200 dogs...and she has quite a few staff members AND volunteers working at her kennels on any given day...and she's not breeding!!

There's no way that those dogs are getting the individual attention they need. I'd say you are totally within your rights to refer to it as a puppy mill. Even if they are compliant with providing adequate shelter, water, and food...and they pass inspections, they are still a puppy mill. If they have that many dogs and they are breeding multiple dogs at any given time....and they have several litters at once, and are selling them off like merchandise online....that's what a puppy mill is!!

Out of curiosity?? How did you get your puppy from her?? Did you go to her house?? Did she meet you somewhere??

Reneevil · 08-28-2013, 07:22 AM

I knew a gal that got her lovely puppy from this breeder and spoke highly of this breeder. Another gal I know through a friend really was pleased with her puppy as well. These are both smart women. I asked questions but have realized since that I shouldn't have relied on the advice of their experience. They were both naive. Shame on me, I know better.
I tried running a google search but nothing came up and I didn't know the breeders names at that time. I found documented information about them after the fact. Learned a lesson.

07-15-2013, 12:37 PM	#1
Reneevil Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Monticello, MN USA Posts: 14	A Breeder told me she is not a puppy mill I happened to find out that the place I got my puppy from had in the year 2009 206 adult dogs in a pole barn on her property. I called her dog breeding business a puppy mill. She sent me a note today stating she does not appreciate my spreading lies about her dog business and that she is not a puppy mill and she takes very good care of her puppies with the appropriate shots, vet care, etc. She states her dogs are healthy and come with guarantees. A true puppy mill would not provide a guarantee. While it is very responsible of her to breed healthy puppies, can a couple of women adequately care for that many adult dogs and gosh knows how many puppies? Can they provide daily exercise, clean crates, etc? To me, not being able to provide a quality of life is one of the definitions of a puppy mill. They are making money while an animal is neglected. I found information on this breeder through Animal Folks MN. A copy of her inspection report is there. Am I wrong in calling her a puppy mill?

07-15-2013, 12:39 PM	#2
lovespandp ♥Momma's Bambino♥ Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Ca Posts: 10,026	I don’t think you are wrong at all. It is a very sad thing and I think those people should be called out for it. __________________ "People with nothing to hide don't usually feel the need to say so."

07-15-2013, 12:40 PM	#3
lovespandp ♥Momma's Bambino♥ Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Ca Posts: 10,026	P.S Welcome to YT! __________________ "People with nothing to hide don't usually feel the need to say so."

07-15-2013, 12:54 PM	#5
Kaitlynx89 YT Addict Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Ayer, Ma, US Posts: 476	No you are not wrong at all! P.S. Welcome to YT! __________________ Kaitlyn && Izzy

07-15-2013, 01:23 PM	#6
Verbena Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: with my flying monkeys Posts: 15,620 Blog Entries: 7	Welcome to YT. You did the right thing. Do not let her make you feel bad __________________ Teri . . . Galen Jameson Frazier Seraphina Luna Rosencrantz, Saber Tooth Tiger, Pussy Willow Pandora Guildenstern

07-15-2013, 12:45 PM	#4
jeane Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: montana Posts: 2,945	Welcome to YT

07-15-2013, 01:23 PM	#7
Yorkiemom1 Rosehill Yorkies Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 9,462	Who is the breeder? What is the kennel name?

07-15-2013, 06:42 PM	#8
MikaTallulah YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 1,812	There is no way that many dogs are being taken care of mentally. Physically yes but not mentally. My rescue dog, Buddy, was 1 of 3 dogs when I got him from his previous owner but he was greatly undersocialized to everything. He now leaves with 3 yorkies was 4 yorkies at the time but he gets far more 1:1 attention daily with me than he ever got from his previous owner. __________________ Beware of Nestle Purina Cozy (4/06), Roxy & Zoey (2/08), Lucy (4/09); Buddy 4/09- Rescued 12/11); Mika ('98) & Tallulah ('00) RIP Harley 4/2009; Lucky 11/2010; Zoey 4/2012

07-15-2013, 06:47 PM	#9
Lovetodream88 Yorkie mom of 4 Donating YT Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: LaPlata, Md Posts: 23,247	She is lying they are a puppy mill. __________________ Taylor My babies Joey, Penny ,Ollie & Dixie Callie Mae, you will forever be in my heart!

07-18-2013, 10:34 AM	#11
yorkietalkjilly ♥ Love My Tibbe! ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: D/FW, Texas Posts: 22,140	She can call it what she wants and deny, deny, deny but if there are only two people housing any number of dogs that are kept in a barn and bred every female estrus with no thought to health testing of the breeding dogs, no selection of breeding pairs for betterment of the breed with a full knowledge of genetics and temperament, no socialization, training, life enrichment, exercises and living the life of a beloved pet 24/7/365, it's a puppymill to me. But if you say that number of adult dogs was 206 plus puppies a few years back and if she's still going at it this day and age - I'd report her to the authorities and every agency and organization that I could. __________________ Jeanie and Tibbe One must do the best one can. You may get some marks for a very imperfect answer: you will certainly get none for leaving the question alone. C. S. Lewis

07-18-2013, 10:36 AM	#12
MyTrixie143 Mom to 6 Beautiful Furkids Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,409	Puppy mill is a bad word, everyone knows this. Do you think a puppy mill will actually admit that they are a puppy mill? No because that would ruin their business and effect their profits and that is the only reason they are doing it. It's like walking into a Petland and asking if their puppies come from puppy mills. They will always tell you that they don't even if you can trace the puppies back to a puppy mill. So no you aren't wrong in calling her a puppy mill and I wouldn't expect her to ever admit to it. __________________ A dog is a furry person! http://www.dogster.com/?300866 Tracey and the gang DestinyHarmonyScamperGracieLillieKiwi Hershey Peppi

08-28-2013, 06:07 AM	#13
Reneevil Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Monticello, MN USA Posts: 14	Thanks for the replies I sent her a message back telling her as nicely as I could, that I disagree that she is a good breeder and her dogs are absolutely neglected and probably suffering. I am pretty sure she found my post here on Yorkie Talk and knew it was me that posted. Her "family" business has gone on for 3 generations and I'm sure her small town knows exactly what she does on her farm. If I didn't mention it before breeders name is Brenda Lange and Susan Boyd and they have a website Pups2pets.net. BTW: my vet has confirmed my 6 month old puppy has hip dysplasia in her rear left hip.

08-28-2013, 06:57 AM	#14
theporkieyorkie YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: dearborn heights Posts: 1,148	I don't see why any breeder would have 200 dogs unless they were a puppy mill cranking out puppies....or they are a hoarder.....and in any case, neither's good. If you've ever watched "Pitbulls and Parolees" on animal planet, Tia runs a rescue kennel of about 200 dogs...and she has quite a few staff members AND volunteers working at her kennels on any given day...and she's not breeding!! There's no way that those dogs are getting the individual attention they need. I'd say you are totally within your rights to refer to it as a puppy mill. Even if they are compliant with providing adequate shelter, water, and food...and they pass inspections, they are still a puppy mill. If they have that many dogs and they are breeding multiple dogs at any given time....and they have several litters at once, and are selling them off like merchandise online....that's what a puppy mill is!! Out of curiosity?? How did you get your puppy from her?? Did you go to her house?? Did she meet you somewhere?? Last edited by theporkieyorkie; 08-28-2013 at 06:59 AM.

08-28-2013, 07:22 AM	#15
Reneevil Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Monticello, MN USA Posts: 14	Should have done more research. my fault there. I knew a gal that got her lovely puppy from this breeder and spoke highly of this breeder. Another gal I know through a friend really was pleased with her puppy as well. These are both smart women. I asked questions but have realized since that I shouldn't have relied on the advice of their experience. They were both naive. Shame on me, I know better. I tried running a google search but nothing came up and I didn't know the breeders names at that time. I found documented information about them after the fact. Learned a lesson.