Shadow Creek Kennels
 

Shaddow Creek Kennels is located in Pittsburg Kansas. The web site is www.shadowcreekkennels.com

I searched and searched for a female who would be on the smaller side, but not a "t-cup", when full grown. I looked in California and was quoted 2500 to 4000 for a female with restricted reg's. I then expanded my search to other states and found Shadow Creek. I had no idea what UDSA meant, I'll be honest... I thought it was good. :confused:

I am picking up my girl on Jan 10th... Should I be concerned? I have really enjoyed the communication I have had with Pam, the breeder. She has taken pictures for me at my request and been very helpfull, she gives one year on the health and really seems to care about her dogs... They are microchipped and have started vac's. My lil girl, due to age will have her rabbies as well, as she will need that along with her health cert to fly home with me.

I guess I am posting in hopes that one of you gals knows the breeder or can pull a report on them, I would be curious to know if they are as good as I think they are...

In the future, I will look to the show breeders here on YT for my next lil girl. I will be wanting a show prospect. Is that bad?? Buying a show dog? Is it not as great as breeding and producing your own? hmmm, I wonder...

Any info on Shadow creek??

I have contacted them before to and they are very nice. All I can say is that all their male studs are breathtaking. :thumbup:

I do not know them, but checked out their web site you provided. They seem to have a good health guarantee. They have 24 females - wow that's a lot. This is why they must be USDA - probably. Some of their females are from Hungary - and go back to New Deal and Camparis. Maybe someone on here knows about them. Good luck with your new baby! :)
T.

So far sounds good.... I can't wait to see other posts when I return home from work... After reading about the USDA thing, I really started to worry about my pick... but like I said, I really felt good about it at the time...

Thanks for all of your help!

In their contract it says that the puppy will be free of genetic defects and mentions hip displaysia (which i thought occured in older dogs.... but this guarantee is only for one year ... and if it does occur in only older dogs than it wouldnt make much sense to sell pupies with this as a guarantee because of course they arent going to get hip displaysia until they are older) and NO luxating patella (i thought this was genetic) :confused:

can someone elaborate please????? is LP genetic? and does Hip displaysia occur in younger dogs as well :confused: (sorry... im totally clueless)

On the plus side, at least they give you a guarantee.... some breeders give you 24 hours

They're really expenisve!

lol........ those prices are the going rate here in claifornia..... 1200?? that is average.......

USDA registered breeders cannot keep their dogs in their home. I don't know if you knew that or not, but I think it's an important thing to keep in mind. I personally would never buy from a breeder who is registered w/ the Dept of Agriculture because I would want a baby who is home raised and coddled as a puppy. It's almost certain that USDA reg breeders do not do this as their dogs are in separate facilities from their home and they have too many of them. It is very important to visit the home of any breeder from which you will be getting a puppy (let alone a very expensive puppy). I highly suggest you see where your dog was actually born.

I also forgot to mention that anybody on the planet can post cute pictures and make/pay someone to make a webpage. I would be very careful.

I think they have adorable sweet little puppies! I don't think the prices are that bad at all either...I paid $1500 for my female and I'm in Michigan! I do suggest a visit though...I have no problem with the dogs in a kennel as long as they are babied. I have gotten puppies from people that have the pups in their homes with horrible socialization skills. It really depends on the breeder so a visit would for sure show how the puppies react to people! :D :D

Also, I LOVE all the stuff they through in with the puppies. So very thoughtful! The only thing I have ever received from a seller is food...I think that is very thoughtful of them!

Good post! I want a pup that has been raised in a home environment...that way, if I turn on a freakin vacuum cleaner, they aren't going to freak out. That sure is A LOT of breeding females.

All of my dogs regarlessof where I got them feak out over the vacuum cleaner. LOL. I hope it works out for you. Post pics when you can.

LOL! I was on the phone when I wrote that and didn't give the post my undivided attention. That was just the tip of the ice berg. I'd like for the pup to be well socialized with people and other dogs. My pups are socialized with my children and I haven't had one complaint. I just also believe in raising a pup in the home where it can get undivided attention and love. Wouldn't you agree?

Usda
 

USDA rules are suppose to promote good care..I do not see it. I am told as others posters mentioned, they dogs can not be kept in the same living area as humans. They must live in a separate kennel building..even newborn pusp and dams.
I think the prices are very fair..it is your gut feeling. Mine is to always to the breeder..planes fly everywhere. best wishes

You may want to check this page out. I think I would ask for a bile acid test prior to bringing the pup home, even if I had to pay for it myself.

http://www.tsfannymaelivershunt.com/...eStampley.html

Not that price is an issue, but do any of you know what this test runs?

I was under the impression that if you have more than 3 Dams, you HAD to be licensed with the USDA?? I swear that is what I read on the USDA website, which is why I thought it was a good thing... I figured that with the yearly inspections and the willingness of the breeder to register with the USDA, that they were responsable...

I will absolutly have this test performed... I have a vet apt scheduled for the 11th of Jan... I would think that I should have her tested at my vet?? Yep, the day after I bring her home, its a 11:30 am, well within 24 hours of bringing her home.

I did have her take extra pictures of "Mica" or Pixie as I call her... She was happy to and sent them right out, Pam has been very helpfull so far. I am hoping that this case listed in the post above is a one time thing and that the animals involved have been removed from her breeding program... I have printed out the pedigrees... I will want to compare them with my girls. ugh!

I have a 400 deposit on her and hate the thought of loosing it... not to mention the plane ticket I have purchaced... I really want to think that I am doing the right thing here... as for her price... breeders here in California with sick looking dogs were asking 2500 to 4000 for pups that looked very ill...

I really did have a good feeling about Pam... I hope I am right.

Any other advice is much appreciated...

oh boy. there are so many red flags here.

Will you get a healthy puppy from this breeder?

maybe.
and health guarantees don't mean anything. once you fly this baby home and take her to the vet are you going to turn around and take her back? The article posted about Liver Shunt was written by a VERY reputable breeder and Yorkie enthusiast, an opinion I would take seriously. (did you note that 2 dogs from different parents from that kennel both had liver shunt...not a one time thing)

Are you contributing to a good breeding program by buying this puppy?

24 females? living and birthing in kennels?

$400. is a lot of money but .....

Ok... I wrote to the breeder asking about the link... I expressed my concerns and asked about testing before I fly out to pick her up. I will follow up with a call in the morning as it is almost midnight here and even later there. I really am beside myself now... I was so very excited about her homecoming, but now I am just sick over it. Should I be looking for another breeder? It took me months of looking to find her.

I really don't think I will be able to sleep tonight. I really felt like I found a good person with a good gaurantee and her dogs looked very well kept. Short of flying across the country to visit every breeder I pull up on a search.... ugh... I am at a loss...

I guess in hind sight I could have visited shows and met breeders that way, but would that have guaranteed me a healthy dog? I don't know, maybe, maybe not... there are so many variables.

I really feel like I'm screwed no matter what now... I almost wish I had not opened this can of worms here.. While I am glad to have the info.... Will you all look at me as supporting a bad breeding program if I continue with the purchace? I don't know that I want that title.

I feel like I am doing everything wrong here.. I researched, I called, I visited locally, and saw a sad state of affairs, I started looking elsewhere, I found a licenced kennel in good standings, I am not shipping, I'm flying out, I have her first vet visit set up, I have every thing in place, xpen, kennel, first aid kit, you name it and she has it waiting for her... And I talked with so many breeders... most were so rude and money hungry... It was very discouraging. I felt like I scored when I called Pam. Her dogs looked great! The contract I signed was well written she was open to any and all questions. I asked for pictures, and she took them, I called and she was in the middle of baths and had to call back. Everything added up.

So what? I just scratch the deposit, scratch the plane ticket and do what? Return the hundreds of dollars in accessories that I have here?

Sorry everyone, but I am a great person who cares very much about the decision that I am making and I feel like some of you are looking at this as a bad judgement on my part...

I really hope that my conversation goes well with her tommorow.

Woah!
 

WOAH!! :confused:

We won't be mad!
 

Sorry about my last post... I didn't know what you meant (tired) after reading about 10 time I finally understand.... Listen no one will be mad at you if you purchase from this breeder... No one knows if this breeder is good or not... as no one has proof... Don't punish the breeder because she ""might"" not be good.. Livershunt is a problem many breeders have (fortunately for me not yet) if she did have liver shunt and admits it and stopped breeding the sire and dam then she has done what she is supposed to do! Talk to her about it... She should understand I would!

Someone asked in their post if Hip Dysplasia can occur in young dogs. It can, it is more common in older dogs; but unfortunetly more pups seem to be appearing with it. LP can be genetic and it can be enviromental. Most of the time a vet will find LP on a pup that is over 1 year of age. A pup can get LP because they dont have strong ligament support, which means when they need to build thier little muscles up. A pup can get LP from jumping off things that are to high and jumping off things that are to high to often. So it really is hard as a breeder to say that Lp wont occur, because they trully wont know. Just make sure that both parents are clear of this flaw. Once you have the Bile test done, and if it comes out good then you will be more releaved. You are going to great lengths in getting your baby, trust you instinct. The USDA starndards I feel are more harsh, but they also can be good. My in-laws have 3 boys they purchased from a large Kennel owner and their boys are all great and healthy. You are getting a 1 year guarantee, and try to talk to her about the Bile test being done prior to you getting Pixie. Ask her if she would mind you speaking with the vet about that particular pup over the phone. Any good breeder wont mind you being cautious; they should be excited at knowing one of thier babies is going to a great home. Don't throw in the towel on your baby yet just make sure you have a guarantee that if the Bile test is bad you can have another pup or a refund. I would also place in the contract for yourself that since it is evident there is a history of Liver shunts in the owners past that they pay for the expense of transfering back the pup if it does have the problem. Lets just hope when you talk to her she is willing to have the test done for you and she is nice about it all. Good luck.

question for admin
 

why was this thread moved? is it because people were posting second hand information? i am just curious b/c it seems like this is the type of conversation that needs to be available to people searching for a pup.


Original poster has had experience with this breeder and started post expressing her experience? What changed so that this can't be under Breeder Review?

Am I crazy or was this moved? :eek:

Thank you ttreatsyorkies.

And no, your not crazy Shelbysmom, it was moved... Admin thought it belonged here?

I am going to be chatting with Pam today... i am sick about it... I did not sleep last night, I tossed and turned.. I just pray that everything is on the up and up.

I think you should still go out there & look at the pups & the facilities & then go w/ your gut. Instead of just "wasting" the $400 & giving up, at least go out there & look since you've already paid for it. I'm sure you'll know what to do when you get there. Good luck to you & keep us posted!

It's nice that you are seeking opinions/advice from YT members.... please remember that most people on these forums are just yorkie owners that may have a few years of experience with yorkies (myself included). Please do not take anything you read here as gospel. There are good and bad breeders all over... with home raised puppies and kennel raised puppies.

Wishing you the best with your new baby! Keep us posted and pictures please.... when you get her!! :)

If her pups are AKC registered - you can contact AKC and they can let you know if any compliants have been filed with them and how many pups she registers in a year. My friend did this when looking and was very helpful to her. Just a thought to help you.
T.

Glad to hear I am not crazy and sorry to hear you are struggling so. No one is going to be angry if you go and get this pup and we will be here to welcome her if you feel this is the Pixie for you. I understand a little about how you feel...I live in California and it can be a tough place to find a pup. I even had a way overpriced pup in my lap and was calling it Shelby when the breeder raised the price on me. I walked but it was one of the hardest things I have ever done. It wasn't about the extra money...it was she showed me how unethical she was.

I left, I cried, I didn't sleep and I had a 4 day migraine.

Take a warm bath, relax and try to pick yourself up from this emotional roller coaster. You don't have to decide today right? The money is important but YOU are more important and so is your Pixie...where ever she might be?

I am hoping that she no longer uses these dogs in her program. I am hoping that it was a lesson learned for her and that she is better for it. I am hoping that it is not a problem as of date. I don't want to support a bad program, but does one mark on your record make you bad? Have all great breeders never had a bad mark? Had something bad pop up in their breeding program? Then take steps to improve and recover?

Wait my phone is ringing...... It’s Pam!


Ok.... I really feel awesome right now!!!! I just spent over an hour on the phone with Pam. I am so pleased!!!

Ok... I tried sending the email to her last night.. I checked mine this morning and saw that it was returned as undeliverable... So I resent it... within 30 minutes she called me! What a quick response!

She was wonderful, she explained the entire situations to me from the first time she visited with the folks who bought the two pups in question up to the very end of it all... there are many details that were left out of that web page on Liver Shunt.... I am not going to go into everything here, as I don't feel it my place to... And I really don't want to fire up any debates about it.. But I will say this.

Pam tested all four of the dogs involved in the breeding of the two pups. Three tested fine and one... The father of Willis tested high. She fixed him right away and removed him from her breeding program. The only sibling of Willis, a female, was contacted and to this day is in perfect health.

Pam was devastated by the event! She did refund the 1500 for Willis to be put towards his sugary, but only after begging the owners to return him to her as he was being held back as a pet for Pam when the couple and her husband had talked her into letting him go to this couple... It was months later that the couple came to her with the request for a refund on the second dog, claming that it too had Liver shunt! Pam was floored! After having all of them tested and the dam and sire of the second dog testing out ok, she felt like she was being taken for a ride. She suffered months of harassment and threats as a result of this. She has never had this issue in her breeding program and to this day has not had the issue again. It was a very unfortunate situation and she did everything she could to correct it. She was going to shut down after the whole thing; it was that traumatic for her.. But her vet convinced her that she was not in the wrong, that bad things happen and as long as she took every step to insure that it was corrected, she would be fine.

As for USDA.... She likes being licensed with them, they come out and inspect, so does the state and AKC... she has never had a violation! She is proud of that! Her pups are never sold to brokers... the USDA rep even told her that she did not need to keep up her Lic if she is not selling to auctions, brokers, or wholesale. Her kennel is climate controlled, and her dams whelp indoors with her... she has a room built off of her bedroom that houses the dams and the puppies while they are young, so she can be close. The USDA has never sited her for having her dogs in the main house. And she says that she has had plenty in when they show up...

Pam offered to refund my deposit... She applauded my concern and was very pleased when I turned her down, she is happy to know that her pup is going to a concerned and caring home.

I believe that Pam is a stand up gal, a good and responsible breeder, and I really do feel like she took the right steps to insure that this is not a problem in her program. She pinpointed the problem and eliminated it... the dog that tested high now lives with her brother as a pet.

There are so many details that we discussed that I am not going into here but the bottom line is..... Shadow Creek Kennels gets a :thumbup: from me. One bad mark does not define us... Or we would all have some serious explaning to do. non of us are perfect beings. It's easy to jump to conclusions... I did. But it takes an open mind to take the time to listen to both sides and decide for yourself. I think that her record speaks for its self, even with this pair of pups on it. I find no other reason to label her as a bad breeder or Puppy mill...

I really feel good about my decision; of course I will have a full blood work panel run on her as part of her new puppy visit with my Vet. He likes to establish a base line to compare to in case of illness. But I am confident that she will test out just fine.

Oh, and I have Chritmas pictures comming form Pam... I will post when I get them! I can't wait to see more of Pixie!

And by the way....

I just want to thank all of you for your help in all of this! Both the support and the criticism... It takes both views to see the whole picture.

Thank you to everyone who replied!