Puppies are Weaned but Mom still producing milk

[Kay1957]

How often do you give the parsley to the mama so she will dry up?

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Kay1957

How often do you give the parsley to the mama so she will dry up?

Welcome to Yorkie Talk. How old are the mama's pups? I have never given parsley so I can't help there. My mamas just dry up naturally. I did read somewhere that adding a tablespoon to their food would help. I suggest you call your vet and ask him.

[Kay1957]

Originally Posted by carmen in nj

Parsley put about a teaspoon of parley in her food, my girl had a litter 9 weeks ago, and she is completely dry..
hugs,

How often do you give mama the parsley. I gave her a teaspoon in her food tonight.

[The 4 M]

Originally Posted by carmen in nj

Parsley put about a teaspoon of parley in her food, my girl had a litter 9 weeks ago, and she is completely dry..
hugs,

This was the best advice I have got from the site, thanks. Really didn't know how it would work, but it does

[The 4 M]

Originally Posted by sweetpuppypaws

Just to clear things up - I DID NOT force the weaning process. Jade started to stand while nursing at 3 weeks - a sign that she is starting to wean. She also would not nurse them unless made to nurse by the time they puppies were 4 weeks old. Last week she would only nurse if they were out on the floor and got a hold of her - again standing and again briefly. The vet told me when she started standing and we were literally having make her go nurse at 4 weeks that we had better get start the weaning process and get them on food. She did in fact develop mastitis last week after I wrote this because she was producing milk and not allowing the puppies to nurse for a long enough period of time. I asked for helpful advice - not criticism. I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm upset but I just think we should all be here to be supportive and not critical of one another. Thank you again to Carmen for the extremely helpful advice. Her milk is drying up and her mastitis seems to be clearing up as well.

It's great if you want puppies nursing until they are like 3 months old but that was not going to happen with Jade as she did not want it.

Molly was the same with her pups it was not long after 4 weeks she would lay down and then stand up within seconds, I was really confused at this point and thought what's up until I put my hand in the way of feeding felt oh yes very sharp teeth, no wonder Molly thought right you all have had all your getting from me, bless her, we all underestimate how natural instincts work, so when mum has had enough we listen as you have done, don't get upset, like I did take on the good advice and forget the rest. Well done you and Jade x

[bjh]

Also puppies toenail get razor sharp around 3 weeks so it is very important to cut their toenails, if not the mom will get scratches all over her tummy and she will not enjoy feeding her pups.

All moms are different when it comes to weaning. Most of my moms will let the pups nurse until their pups are 8 to 10 weeks old, even though the mom may have very little milk by then.

[Kittykatmeow]

my yorkie had her first litter 4 weeks ago. about 10 days ago, she began to hop in and out of the box & nurse only about 5 minutes at a time. 2 of the 4 puppies are smaller & often get pushed out of the way by the larger 2 pups. mama often sits up & I have to force her down. 2 of the puppies are gaining well (maybe too well), but when I'd come home from work the 2 smaller pups would often have only gained a gram or even lost 1-2 grams during the day. I began supplementing about 1/4 ounce to each pup. so while mom (held down by granddaughter) nurses 3, I feed formula out of my hand (they don't like the bottle) to the other.

now my concern is whether the larger pups are gaining too much on the formula. daddy was 3 lbs. & mama is about 6 lbs. the largest puppy weighs 22 ounces at 4 weeks. his head & paws are a little wider than the other pups. my hubby tells me that I should stop giving formula to the chunky ones, but then I read that they should be allowed to eat as much as they want as puppies & that the weight would correct as they get older. they all seem to really like the formula.

any thoughts on that? obviously would prefer not to have overweight dogs but torn over whether or not to continue to supplement.

yesterday I added canned puppy food (about the size of 1 pinto bean) into 2 ounces of formula. they liked it!

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Kittykatmeow

my yorkie had her first litter 4 weeks ago. about 10 days ago, she began to hop in and out of the box & nurse only about 5 minutes at a time. 2 of the 4 puppies are smaller & often get pushed out of the way by the larger 2 pups. mama often sits up & I have to force her down. 2 of the puppies are gaining well (maybe too well), but when I'd come home from work the 2 smaller pups would often have only gained a gram or even lost 1-2 grams during the day. I began supplementing about 1/4 ounce to each pup. so while mom (held down by granddaughter) nurses 3, I feed formula out of my hand (they don't like the bottle) to the other.

now my concern is whether the larger pups are gaining too much on the formula. daddy was 3 lbs. & mama is about 6 lbs. the largest puppy weighs 22 ounces at 4 weeks. his head & paws are a little wider than the other pups. my hubby tells me that I should stop giving formula to the chunky ones, but then I read that they should be allowed to eat as much as they want as puppies & that the weight would correct as they get older. they all seem to really like the formula.

any thoughts on that? obviously would prefer not to have overweight dogs but torn over whether or not to continue to supplement.

yesterday I added canned puppy food (about the size of 1 pinto bean) into 2 ounces of formula. they liked it!

It is not unusual to have different sized pups in the same litter. Some may be taking after the dad and some after the mom. Puppies can get overweight when the mom has a lot of milk. Your pups are ready for you to start the weaning process. I recommend you get a good quality dry kibble to start them on. There are several ways you can do it. You can grind the kibble up in a blender until it is really fine and just place it in a small bowl in their pen or you can soak it and mix it with a little puppy formula. Usually I will leave out some of the ground up dry food and also give them a bowl of moist food a few times a day. Once the pups start eating the moms milk will slowly dry up. Also the pups will need a small shallow bowl of water in their pen. Be sure you keep the nail clipped on the pups too so they don't scratch the momma or get hung up in the bedding.

[Kittykatmeow]

thank you so much for your advice. I was trying to hold off as long as I can with weaning but today was even more difficult. she absolutely refused. and the puppies were wailing very loudly. I'd lay her down, grab 2 puppies, get them on her, turn around to grab the other 2. by the time I turned back, she'd gotten up and shaken the initial 2 pups off of her.
mom (Skipper) has always been the baby in the household to my Maltichon whom we've only recently allowed into the room for short periods of time tied up and away from the pups. mom has been separated from my Maltichon for 4 weeks now and I think she misses her companionship & longs for the days of her youth when she had no responsibilities!!!
I will definitely try grinding up the kibble tonight. mom also likes the formula and will eat it before the puppies get to it, so I like the idea of having the ground kibble on hand and maybe supervising the kibble with formula.
mom hasn't been as interested in kibble lately, so I've been feeding mom Blue Buffalo small breed puppy kibble combined with small amounts of canned Blue puppy food. I try to get as much kibble as I can into the mix. I shied away from Royal Canine because it seems so pricey but after hearing so many rave about it on this forum, I may switch over eventually/after we get the weaning done.
thanks again!

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

NEVER force wean. The problem is that although they are eating the mom is not ready to complete the weaning process so she is producing milk. The puppies getting the milk and continuing the bonding process at 7 weeks is IMPORTANT for happy healthy puppies.
The mothers of any of my puppies do not complete the weaning until about 10 weeks of age. I never force them.
The mom will dry up naturally as nature intending.
The only time you have to wean early is when mom has developed a problem such as mastitis. Even a low calcium is not an issue, give 1 cc of liquid calcium daily or 1/2 tums daily. There is enough calcium in tums to keep mom happy with calcium intake.
There should never be a rush for anything. The moms know best and let them make the decisions. If I am going to sell anything for pet, I am in no hurry anyway to wean, first vacc's etc because they don't go anywhere until minimum 3 1/2 months.

Thank you Lorraine for taking the time to respond. I completely agree with your thoughts on this. This is exactly how I support my momma and babies during this stressful time for puppies.

All of my females have always weaned their babies themselves, and I allow them to do that....my older babies have been known to even just suckle like with pacefiers, during the day, on and off, and at night. As I have started to offer "weaning meals" in conjunction with what momma supplies, the pups just do not go to teat to satisfy hunger after about 8 -9 weeks old, and the moms milk is starting to dry up naturally. My females gladly allow this from their babies....and will allow the pups to snuggle and suckle until they fall asleep....mom will then leave the pups so she can sleep alone, but she returns to the pups bed and checks on them during the night (they are all still in a whelping pen that is larger so mom has the other half of the area to go for "alone time"). Mommas determine when the buffet line is closed and meals are no longer served....personally, if I have a female that starts to leave her litter early or shows no interest in feeding or bonding with them, I pull that dog off my breeding line after two attempts at litters have produced the same response from the momma.... I consider this behavior a temperment/personality trait I do not want in my lines.....

When my females that have been wonderful, patient, enthusiastic, "hands on" breeders, start showing behavior that clearly indicates their interests are elsewhere....and we all reach a point when we are just tired of fooling with kids!..... and they clearly do not want to be bothered taking care of kids any longer, these ladies are strongly considered for retirement from breeding. If two successive litters are treated the same way, she is pulled and not asked to continue as a breeder. She is promptly spayed, and spends the rest of her life just hanging out!

[Yorkiemom1]

I wanted to post this information....this particular article is from Dr.Foster and Smith....

It is important that we now clarify one often-misunderstood point. As stated, colostrum with its antibody protection is only present in the first 36-48 hours of milk flow. Puppies and kittens can only gain immunity from colostrum if they nurse during that time frame, and they are less than two days old. After that, it makes no difference how much or how little they nurse, they will not receive any more antibodies.

Many breeders and pet owners believe that as long as the puppy or kitten is nursing, it is gaining more protection. Wrong! Others feel that by allowing older animals to nurse on a new mother immediately after she gives birth, she will give these older animals another dose of antibodies. Wrong again! Remember, the puppies and kittens cannot absorb antibodies after their digestive tracts lose the ability to absorb large unaltered protein molecules. All the colostral protection the puppy or kitten has is what it received in that first day or two of life. Later on, we can only augment this by vaccination. The amounts of immunoglobulins (antibodies) that are present within the milk are directly proportional to the levels of antibodies present in the mother. We often speak of 'titers' as a way to quantify the levels present in an animal. Tests are run on blood from the animal in question, and in simple terms, the higher the titers, the more antibodies are present. Mothers with high titers pass higher concentrations of antibodies across the placenta and through their milk. Puppies and kittens that have taken colostrum with larger quantities of antibodies are able to absorb more antibodies, and therefore, have higher concentrations in their blood. Newborns, that start out with higher levels of these colostral molecules carry this protection for longer periods of time. This explains why we want to be sure the mother has a high antibody titer before breeding since she will be able to pass more protection to her offspring. Her offspring will then possess higher levels of protection for longer periods of time against the diseases that we commonly vaccinate for such as distemper, parvo, and coronavirus in dogs, panleukopenia (feline distemper) and calicivirus in cats, etc."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is exactly why I load my breeding females with NeoPar a week prior to breeding....she will be "supercharged" against parvo....and then the pups when born, are super charged against parvo....and then at 4 weeks of age, I vaccinate the puppies with NeoPar.....that keeps them super fortified against parvo until I start my vaccinations at 8-9 weeks of age. NeoPar was specifically designed to provide this super protection and over rides any antibodies the momma is carrying naturally.....remembering that the antibodies are ONLY active in colostrum during the first 36-48 hours of mother milk production.....that is ALL the protection the pups receive from momma.....the rest of mommas milk does not contain antibodies and provides no protection to puppies.

[Kittykatmeow]

For those who favor not forcing the wean, what do you do in situations when the mom is not that interested, she's standing up when she nurses, it's only for a few minutes at a time, and ignores the pups when they're crying loudly? She may stand and wean for 5 minutes but it takes the smaller 2 a couple of minutes to even get to her and get into position. She then jumps and shakes them off? What would you suggest in that situation?
Thanks.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Kittykatmeow

For those who favor not forcing the wean, what do you do in situations when the mom is not that interested, she's standing up when she nurses, it's only for a few minutes at a time, and ignores the pups when they're crying loudly? She may stand and wean for 5 minutes but it takes the smaller 2 a couple of minutes to even get to her and get into position. She then jumps and shakes them off? What would you suggest in that situation?
Thanks.

Your moms behavior is pretty much normal. Once the pups are four weeks old they should not be nursing real often and mom will not spend a lot of time with them. Once you start feeding the pups you should still let the mom nurse them when ever she wants.

What kind of setup do you have for your mom and pups? At four weeks the pups need a nice area that they can run around in. At four week I take the pups out of their whelping box and in a x-pen. I start with an area that is about 4' by 6'. I cover the area with washable pee pads and I have them a little bedding at one end. I put their food and water in the middle. At one end of the pen I have a board across it so the mom can jump in and out. The mom has to have a way to escape the pups when she wants to. As the pups get older I enlarge their area.

During the weaning process sometimes the puppies will cry just because they want their mother or because they want out of their area. Once you start giving them food, water and toys to play with they will be much happier.

Have you cut the puppies toenails? If their their nails are sharp the mom will be very uncomfortable letting them nurse.

[Kittykatmeow]

so good to know that it's normal. I tend to worry too much. right now we've got them in a series of boxes. the sleeping area, the feeding/poop area (which they haven't quite gotten used to), and then it opens into a large box/play area that's about 3x3. I will definitely look into a playpen.
do you still keep a heating pad going during this phase? no ground up kibble, or kibble paste, or kibble with formula? got the water thing going. I've been supplementing at night with about 1 ounce of formula split between the 4 pups. they are now drinking it out of a shallow pet dish. (mom drinks about 1 ounce after they've had theirs).
I trimmed their nails and even did a quick file with the emory board, but will definitely take another look at them. perhaps I didn't cut enough. thank you so much. I really appreciate the advice.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Kittykatmeow

so good to know that it's normal. I tend to worry too much. right now we've got them in a series of boxes. the sleeping area, the feeding/poop area (which they haven't quite gotten used to), and then it opens into a large box/play area that's about 3x3. I will definitely look into a playpen.
do you still keep a heating pad going during this phase? no ground up kibble, or kibble paste, or kibble with formula? got the water thing going. I've been supplementing at night with about 1 ounce of formula split between the 4 pups. they are now drinking it out of a shallow pet dish. (mom drinks about 1 ounce after they've had theirs).
I trimmed their nails and even did a quick file with the emory board, but will definitely take another look at them. perhaps I didn't cut enough. thank you so much. I really appreciate the advice.

I feel that boxes at their age are to confining. With an x-pen or play yard they can see out and won't get as stressed. Set it up where mom can go in and out when she wants to.

I would leave out the finely ground puppy kibble and also give them pups some mushy food several times a day. The mom might eat some the ground up kibble but that is okay since she will be teaching them how to eat. If she eats up the mussy food right away then you might have to keep her away while the pups eat. You should not have to supplement them if they are eating out of a bowl. Just feed them right before bedtime. Mom should be able to feed them during the night as long as she can get to them.

They should not need a heating pad at this age unless you are in a very cold climate. Just some nice clean bedding will be fine. I fold up a sheet for them to lay on. During cooler weather I will use flannel sheets and fleece blankets.

All litters are different. I have had some litters that were very vocal, wanting mom with them all the time and other litters that hardly ever make a peep.

Is the mom still cleaning up the puppy's poop? Once they start eating solid food sometimes the mom will stop cleaning their bottoms. At about four weeks I make sure the hair around the puppies bottom is trimmed short.