When Buyers Break Contract

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by my2boyz

I might ad that this was a 25 year friendship and not someone I barely knew...and that added a bit to the sting too.

I've heard this before and some breeders have said that especially when you are dealing with a friend to have a clear contract, that way there is no misunderstanding. I'm so sorry this happened to you. If you want to give something for free, you can always charge one dollar which helps make it a legal binding contract.

[jeane]

good question

[magicgenie]

Originally Posted by beecee

Gemy, that's awesome! I wish my breeder was like that....why have me sign a contract if you have no contact after the pup is sold, I don't get it. :/

While I'm thrilled to hear from anyone who has a puppy from me, I don't wish to intrude into their personal business and give them the feeling they're answerable to me. I interview the family before they get a puppy, enough to satisfy myself they have the means and desire to care for it. I only issue limited AKC registration, and there is a contract requiring spay/neuter before 7 months old, and requiring consult with me in the event rehoming ever becomes necessary, but I don't pop in and out of their lives to make sure they did everything they said they would do. If I didn't trust them to follow up I wouldn't trust them to leave with the puppy in the first place.
Every once in a while someone doesn't keep their word, and that's shame on them. Word and good name mean everything to me.

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

While I'm thrilled to hear from anyone who has a puppy from me, I don't wish to intrude into their personal business and give them the feeling they're answerable to me. I interview the family before they get a puppy, enough to satisfy myself they have the means and desire to care for it. I only issue limited AKC registration, and there is a contract requiring spay/neuter before 7 months old, and requiring consult with me in the event rehoming ever becomes necessary, but I don't pop in and out of their lives to make sure they did everything they said they would do. If I didn't trust them to follow up I wouldn't trust them to leave with the puppy in the first place.
Every once in a while someone doesn't keep their word, and that's shame on them. Word and good name mean everything to me.

Soooo thankful there are breeders like you! The others scare the hell outta me with how involved they want to stay .

I wrote on another thread how it's like adopting a child...you CHOOSE either an open or closed adoption. And I as a pup buyer would want a closed-adoption. I want the pup to be MINE, not to feel like I'm raising someone else's dog. I'd like a breeder that's there if I need her/him, but isn't obnoxious about intruding into my life.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

While I'm thrilled to hear from anyone who has a puppy from me, I don't wish to intrude into their personal business and give them the feeling they're answerable to me. I interview the family before they get a puppy, enough to satisfy myself they have the means and desire to care for it. I only issue limited AKC registration, and there is a contract requiring spay/neuter before 7 months old, and requiring consult with me in the event rehoming ever becomes necessary, but I don't pop in and out of their lives to make sure they did everything they said they would do. If I didn't trust them to follow up I wouldn't trust them to leave with the puppy in the first place.
Every once in a while someone doesn't keep their word, and that's shame on them. Word and good name mean everything to me.

What exactly do you mean by follow up? Are you saying if there is a future rehome or a health issue with your puppy that you would want to know or is that written into your contract? I'm very curious regarding this since the only contract that I have ever signed was on my rescues requiring if I was ever not able to take care of them I would return them back to the rescue. Obviously, rescues are different with health issues.

What if there was an issue with a puppy's health and your client was dissatisfied with a long term medical issue? How is that handled by a breeder with a contract.

[beecee]

I understand what you're saying but...I believe a simple one time follow up email would be good.

Also, I felt like there was a "show" put on as far as caring who she was giving the puppy to. I had to volunteer information rather than be asked for it...even though they had a contract..

If she was to be contacting me every day I wouldn't like that either but, I think at least one or two emails would have been good. I've had Jimmy now for 3 1/2 months.

I'm eager to see if she contacts me come the 8 month deadline on the contract for neuter. 2 more months to go.

I have to say that her dogs are very healthy though, except for the ticks I found on him....:/ but I find them on almost any puppy I've ever gotten.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

Soooo thankful there are breeders like you! The others scare the hell outta me with how involved they want to stay .

I wrote on another thread how it's like adopting a child...you CHOOSE either an open or closed adoption. And I as a pup buyer would want a closed-adoption. I want the pup to be MINE, not to feel like I'm raising someone else's dog. I'd like a breeder that's there if I need her/him, but isn't obnoxious about intruding into my life.

I'm a very private person as well. I don't want to have strangers in my life or in my business. But I think you misunderstand what some people are saying. A quick hello email, or phone call to ask how is your puppy doing is not intrusive or telling you what to do with your pup. I get asked the same questions by people I randomly meet. The way I see it, that quick phone call is a small caring reminder that the breeder is there for you if you need them. They also would like to know their lines are flourishing for the betterment of our beloved breed. Like your own personal lifeline to all things yorkie, specifically to your yorkies and his/her family. Some breeders are more involved and offer free grooming and babysitting service to the pups they breed for life. How could that be intrusive? It's marvelous!

However, I do agree that if a breeder would want to control everything from when the pup was to get fixed, by whom, all the way down to the color of the bow it is to wear in its hair then yes. That breeder is way too involved and I would not be comfortable having them anywhere in my life!

Gemy described her contract for a non-yorkie breed, and then explained why she follows up so much.

[magicgenie]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

What exactly do you mean by follow up? Are you saying if there is a future rehome or a health issue with your puppy that you would want to know or is that written into your contract? I'm very curious regarding this since the only contract that I have ever signed was on my rescues requiring if I was ever not able to take care of them I would return them back to the rescue. Obviously, rescues are different with health issues.

What if there was an issue with a puppy's health and your client was dissatisfied with a long term medical issue? How is that handled by a breeder with a contract.

My puppy customers do sign a contract agreeing to spay/neuter by 7 months of age and to consult me should a situation arise requiring rehoming. Health also is covered in the contract. I trust my customers to do what they agreed to in the contract, but I don't ask them to provide proof of neuter or follow them around making sure they still have my dog. As long as I live I'll be here to answer their questions and assist however I can, but I will not make a pest of myself in their lives.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

My puppy customers do sign a contract agreeing to spay/neuter by 7 months of age and to consult me should a situation arise requiring rehoming. Health also is covered in the contract. I trust my customers to do what they agreed to in the contract, but I don't ask them to provide proof of neuter or follow them around making sure they still have my dog. As long as I live I'll be here to answer their questions and assist however I can, but I will not make a pest of myself in their lives.

Joey's breeder asked me to provide proof of a neuter, and I say three cheers for any breeder who does this. You, not the buyers, are ultimately responsible for all the dogs you produce, and the dogs those dogs produce, and a really great breeder know that! Also, I appreciate those breeders who call and check up on their pups, it will help them really know if there are genetic weaknesses in their lines.

[KazzyK810]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Joey's breeder asked me to provide proof of a neuter, and I say three cheers for any breeder who does this. You, not the buyers, are ultimately responsible for all the dogs you produce, and the dogs those dogs produce, and a really great breeder know that! Also, I appreciate those breeders who call and check up on their pups, it will help them really know if there are genetic weaknesses in their lines.

Everything you listed is my experience too....but that I view as reasonable. Per my contract I had to spay ZoE and I provided proof of that when she was seven months old. And the only contact the breeder initiated was one phone call when ZoE was 10-11 months old to see how she was doing and to make sure she hadn't developed any health problems she should be aware of with her lines. That was fine. If she was calling & emailing every few months...I'd be placing blocks on my email & phone accounts

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

Everything you listed is my experience too....but that I view as reasonable. Per my contract I had to spay ZoE and I provided proof of that when she was seven months old. And the only contact the breeder initiated was one phone call when ZoE was 10-11 months old to see how she was doing and to make sure she hadn't developed any health problems she should be aware of with her lines. That was fine. If she was calling & emailing every few months...I'd be placing blocks on my email & phone accounts

That sounds reasonable. I'm the one calling Joey's breeder, she does his grooming, and so far she hasn't blocked my calls!

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Joey's breeder asked me to provide proof of a neuter, and I say three cheers for any breeder who does this. You, not the buyers, are ultimately responsible for all the dogs you produce, and the dogs those dogs produce, and a really great breeder know that! Also, I appreciate those breeders who call and check up on their pups, it will help them really know if there are genetic weaknesses in their lines.

I think this last line in your post is especially important to the breed. Not only should a breeder be willing to take any responsibility necessary for a puppy if required but I would think they would also want to know about any genetic defects for future breeding. In order to assure that their lines are clear of defects I would think that contact with puppy owners would be necessary if they are selling at a young age (10 - 12 weeks) to ensure that as the puppy grows there are no issues of genetic issues unknown to the breeder from the breeding pair. Correct me if I am wrong but if a breeder were to find something genetic in their lines (or the lines of someone that they chose to breed with) that pair should NEVER be bred again. If the breeding pair were to continue I would think that over time the genetic issues could become worse.

When I am speaking of genetic issues referring to:

Liver Shunt
Luxating Patella
Legg Perthes
Seizure disorders
AAI
**just to name of few off the top of my head

So if these were present I would think that not only would a breeder want to know about any puppies but they would take action not to breed those dogs or littermates of those dogs with issues like those I have listed above.

Breeding is a two way road and for many reasons the breeder and owner should keep in contact. I feel it's very important to have a continued open communication between a breeder and owner. Breeding is a lifetime commitment and if you want your lines to be clean I would think that contact would be the only way to accomplish and achieve this outcome.

[Sweet Girls]

Amount of contact wished and provided are very personal decisions and could be discussed with the breeder beforehand if necessary. To be honest, I wanted a closer relationship with my Schnauzer's breeder than she provided...i.e. I would of loved for her to contact me and check in, however; that's not her personality, she has always responded to my concerns, has boarded Georgie (for a reasonable price), provided support and advice as needed. She actually runs a (closed) facebook group for all her "extended family" which has been another source of contact. But I think she's an amazing breeder and very knowledgeable. Someone perhaps that KazzyK810 would appreciate. So I think it might be part of your "shopping" when you are looking for a puppy.

What I did find interesting in the contract I signed was a clause that if ever my Mini was overweight, my Breeder would consider it "neglect" due to the propensity of Schnauzer issues associated with obesity...and she would have the right to "re-possess" my schnauzer. Now, in truth I don't know if that would even have been enforceable, however; I know it made me aware of everything my girl eats...and I've always made sure she never put on too much weight

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

I think this last line in your post is especially important to the breed. Not only should a breeder be willing to take any responsibility necessary for a puppy if required but I would think they would also want to know about any genetic defects for future breeding. In order to assure that their lines are clear of defects I would think that contact with puppy owners would be necessary if they are selling at a young age (10 - 12 weeks) to ensure that as the puppy grows there are no issues of genetic issues unknown to the breeder from the breeding pair. Correct me if I am wrong but if a breeder were to find something genetic in their lines (or the lines of someone that they chose to breed with) that pair should NEVER be bred again. If the breeding pair were to continue I would think that over time the genetic issues could become worse.

When I am speaking of genetic issues referring to:

Liver Shunt
Luxating Patella
Legg Perthes
Seizure disorders
AAI
**just to name of few off the top of my head

So if these were present I would think that not only would a breeder want to know about any puppies but they would take action not to breed those dogs or littermates of those dogs with issues like those I have listed above.

Breeding is a two way road and for many reasons the breeder and owner should keep in contact. I feel it's very important to have a continued open communication between a breeder and owner. Breeding is a lifetime commitment and if you want your lines to be clean I would think that contact would be the only way to accomplish and achieve this outcome.

I agree with this I really think it could help the breeder understand much better if there was a problem with their lines, I guess most don't even want to know! I remember asking one breeder if there was a certain condition associated with her lines, and she said, "I've never received any complaints." She really thought that meant she was in the clear. She admitted to never checking on any of her clients (customers) as well. I can understand a breeder who's just in it for a buck, never checking, but I really cannot understand why someone who's wants to do right by the breed wouldn't check up.

[gemy]

A breeder should make the effort to find out about any health concerns of their breedings over the life time of that puppy. It is their responsibility to keep current on the health of the lines they have bred.

Many puppy/dog owners don't even realize that some genetic flaws can show up as late as 5 or even 7 years old. Like for example PRA. And they don't understand the importance of letting the breeder know.

There are different expectations and requirements for a large working breed, built and bred to guard and defend, then there is for a toy breed.

It is just one of the areas of conversation a buyer will have with the breeder.

And some one posted in their Schauzer contract about if their dog gets fat, I have a similar requirement from my Yorkie breeder. It is a tad more expansive in that the dog must be kept in good overall condition. And there are more conditions as well.