Texas Breeders

[bjh]

Texas did pass the puppy mill bill and apparently it has been signed by Gov. Perry. Here is a copy of the bill for those interested:

82(R) HB 1451 - Enrolled version - Bill Text

From what I am reading, anyone with more than 10 breeding females will need to get a license and anyone who sells more than 20 puppies a year. What's not clear to me is that if someone had 5 or 6 breeding females and produced 24 puppies in a year, would they need a license?

I know a lot of people were against the bill, I'm not sure why. Hopefully some good will come out of it.

[ladyjane]

I believe that the word "or" in there means either. In other words:

11 or more intact females

OR

sells or exchanges 20 or more puppies


I certainly hope it changes things in TX. We are long overdue. I had received some of the emails from people fighting it and I did not understand their concerns either.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I believe that the word "or" in there means either. In other words:

11 or more intact females

OR

sells or exchanges 20 or more puppies


I certainly hope it changes things in TX. We are long overdue. I had received some of the emails from people fighting it and I did not understand their concerns either.

I was interpreting it differently because of the 'and' in the sentence below.


"Dog or cat breeder" means a person who possesses
11 or more adult intact female animals and is engaged in the
business of breeding those animals for direct or indirect sale or
for exchange in return for consideration and who sells or
exchanges, or offers to sell or exchange, not fewer than 20 animals
in a calendar year.

I can see why show exhibitors would be a bit upset. I don't see why they would exempt those that show in field trials and not those that show in conformation.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by bjh

I was interpreting it differently because of the 'and' in the sentence below.


"Dog or cat breeder" means a person who possesses
11 or more adult intact female animals and is engaged in the
business of breeding those animals for direct or indirect sale or
for exchange in return for consideration and who sells or
exchanges, or offers to sell or exchange, not fewer than 20 animals
in a calendar year.

I can see why show exhibitors would be a bit upset. I don't see why they would exempt those that show in field trials and not those that show in conformation.

Oops...I misread it. So, I guess it must be both.

As for the exemptions, I think they are definitely odd and not exactly well balanced.

[backwardsrain]

I am on another forum in a different breed, and that forum is very against this bill. The licenses are expected to be very expensive, the breeder is subject to unannounced inspections by the state, and they must follow the same legal requirements as a puppy mill (which is difficult when raising puppies in your living room). In breeds where 7-10 puppies per litter is the norm, 2 or 3 litters a year could put you over the limit.

Also the exceptions don't make a lot of sense.

exempts dogs bred to be used exclusively for herding livestock, hunting (including pointing, flushing, or retrieving game) or competing in field trials.

What does it mean to be used exclusively for? No breeder can guarantee that every puppy will turn out to be a hunter or herder, there are always puppies who don't make the cut that are placed as pets.

Anyway, I'm not an expert on this bill at all, just trying to show why other dog people are against it.

[Teresamag]

[QUOTE=backwardsrain;3571989]I am on another forum in a different breed, and that forum is very against this bill. The licenses are expected to be very expensive, the breeder is subject to unannounced inspections by the state, and they must follow the same legal requirements as a puppy mill (which is difficult when raising puppies in your living room). In breeds where 7-10 puppies per litter is the norm, 2 or 3 litters a year could put you over the limit.

Also the exceptions don't make a lot of sense. What does it mean to be used exclusively for? No breeder can guarantee that every puppy will turn out to be a hunter or herder, there are always puppies who don't make the cut that are placed as pets"


I don't know about this bill (haven't even read it) but most of the time the language exempting hunting dogs is to prevent the commercial breeder, hunting dog breeder, and show breeder from working together. Divide and conquer is the thought process. This bill may or may not be good but anytime a bill exempts one segment of the breeding community there is usually a hidden agenda. When a bill is supposed to make things better for "puppy mill" dogs it usually makes it worse for the hobby or show breeder. Those people who are doing things the correct and ethical way have to follow the same rules and it can make things more difficult for the breeders who are doing things right. Be very careful about things that are voted on and think about how the bill would affect all areas.

Teresa

[bjh]

Yesterday I got a call back from the Texas Department of Licensing from someone that could explain more about the new puppy mill bill. The new bill will apply only to people that have 11 or more breeding females. If you have 11 or more breeding females but sell less than 20 puppies a year then you will not need a license. It will be over a year before all the rules better defined and people have to come into compliance. He also stated that they understand the situation with breeder/exhibitors that might have females over 6 months that are being evaluated for show or being shown but not being bred. They will work out something for those people. So basically the new bill will not effect many, if any breeder exhibitors or the small hobby breeders.

[Brooklynn]

I have a problem with the bill for those exhibitors/show breeders. It's gonna make getting a good purebred harder because most of us and those that breed correctly won't be able to pay the high license fee like the puppy millers will be able too because that IS their business and they can afford it and they by pass any laws anyway. I'm glad I'm not going to be breeding much more any longer. I'm staying in the show aspect of it but breeding for me is not gonna be happening much.

[OwnedByJezebel]

So all those sleazy brokers out there, selling at flea markets, get a pass, because they don't have any breeding females?

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I have a problem with the bill for those exhibitors/show breeders. It's gonna make getting a good purebred harder because most of us and those that breed correctly won't be able to pay the high license fee like the puppy millers will be able too because that IS their business and they can afford it and they by pass any laws anyway. I'm glad I'm not going to be breeding much more any longer. I'm staying in the show aspect of it but breeding for me is not gonna be happening much.

I don't know any breeder/exhibitors in Texas that has 11 or more breeding females. Perhaps there are some but I don't know them. The person I spoke that said they have not decided what the licensing fee will be but he did not think it will be real high. The guy did tell me they will not be counting older unspay females that are no longer being bred, nor will they count dogs/puppies over 6 month that are being shown or evaluated for show. They still need to work out all the details. I really don't feel like they are out to get show people or people that are breeding for the betterment of the breed rather they are trying to cut down on the people that are mass producing puppies and keeping them in crowded, unsanitary conditions.

I guess time will tell how this effects everyone but I just have a feeling it will not effect the small hobby breeder or the normal breeder/exhibitor. All I know it will not effect me so I am not worried about it.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by bjh

I don't know any breeder/exhibitors in Texas that has 11 or more breeding females. Perhaps there are some but I don't know them. The person I spoke that said they have not decided what the licensing fee will be but he did not think it will be real high. The guy did tell me they will not be counting older unspay females that are no longer being bred, nor will they count dogs/puppies over 6 month that are being shown or evaluated for show. They still need to work out all the details. I really don't feel like they are out to get show people or people that are breeding for the betterment of the breed rather they are trying to cut down on the people that are mass producing puppies and keeping them in crowded, unsanitary conditions.

I guess time will tell how this effects everyone but I just have a feeling it will not effect the small hobby breeder or the normal breeder/exhibitor. All I know it will not effect me so I am not worried about it.

I know plenty that have and I'm not just talking yorkies...what about the larger breeds that have more than 4 or 5 in a litter....it's really gonna affect the normal exhibitor more than you think and it's sad but of course it won't affect me at all...

[bjh]

Originally Posted by OwnedByJezebel

So all those sleazy brokers out there, selling at flea markets, get a pass, because they don't have any breeding females?

I did ask him about brokers being effected he said it looks like the bill does not address that issue. But if the broker is getting pups from the bigger puppy mills then perhaps it will help in the long run. If a broker or individual is selling puppies in Texas, whether from a flea market or their homes they are required to have a sales tax number and pay taxes on the puppy sales. I am sure a lot of people don't follow that rule either.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I know plenty that have and I'm not just talking yorkies...what about the larger breeds that have more than 4 or 5 in a litter....it's really gonna affect the normal exhibitor more than you think and it's sad but of course it won't affect me at all...

The criteria is that you must have 11 or more breeding females. Example, if you have 10 or less breeding females and sell over 20 puppies in a year you would not need a license. If you have 11 breeding females but sell less than 20 puppies in a year you would not need a license.

If a show exhibitor has over 10 breeding females and is selling over 20 puppies a year (whether for show or pet) it seems they could afford a small licensing fee. Don't get me wrong, there are some parts of the bill I am not crazy about but you have to take the bad with the good.

[Cares4Dogs]

Hey everyone, sorry I'm a little late posting on this thread. I currently live in TX and will not be breeding at all while I'm still here. Our City ordinance states that anyone who as a litter of puppies has to have a litter permit for each litter, whether you keep the pups or not. Your not allowed to sell any of your pups and make any profit at all but you can sell them for the equivalent of what you've put into them excluding food.

A friend of mine went to get a permit so she could rehome her pups and she was told she would not be allowed to do so from her house. I didnt get the specifics, but I was shocked they wouldnt give her a permit. She said the city is making it impossible for reputable breeders who want to stay within the letter of the law to breed at all. Funny thing is, the puppy mills are outside city limits and are free to do what they want.

[tegamom1]

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs

Hey everyone, sorry I'm a little late posting on this thread. I currently live in TX and will not be breeding at all while I'm still here. Our City ordinance states that anyone who as a litter of puppies has to have a litter permit for each litter, whether you keep the pups or not. Your not allowed to sell any of your pups and make any profit at all but you can sell them for the equivalent of what you've put into them excluding food.

A friend of mine went to get a permit so she could rehome her pups and she was told she would not be allowed to do so from her house. I didnt get the specifics, but I was shocked they wouldnt give her a permit. She said the city is making it impossible for reputable breeders who want to stay within the letter of the law to breed at all. Funny thing is, the puppy mills are outside city limits and are free to do what they want.

Very curious....what city do you live in?