mentor issue (and heat cycle question)

[bellemarie]

firstly, sorry for the (once again) long winded question...
unfortunately, over here (in n.i) having a breeding mentor isnt really 'the done thing' but i insisted on having someone more experienced to give me a hand, and since i have not been able to get in touch with the UYTC this lady was the best breeder i knew... however...over the last few months i have been having disagreements with my 'mentor' as to her breeding ethics. she breeds chihuahuas as her main breed and yorkies as a secondary (as i said, she was deffinately better than nothing) but she has recently been breeding just to meet the demand for chis (imo) and has not been registering them etc- she has 7 chi girls and all have had non reg litters this year. i do have a tendency to speak my mind and have nearly gotten into some pretty heated discussions with her over the past few months about it...
another of my problems is, she owns the male that i am wanting to take missy to when she goes into heat, and with kuki hopefully getting ready for her maiden litter, i dont want to be on my own (although the owners of kukis stud is a Very knowledgeable and an excellent, experienced yorkie exhibitor and breeder and i know that that they will help me if needed, although i dont know them That well yet...)
what would you do in my situation; do i overlook the fact that my current 'mentor' is becoming too greedy until i have established a better relationship with the better breeder, or do i cut my loses and hope for the best with my new aquaintance?

also, to the best of my knowledge kukis day1 of heat was 21/10 so it is now day 12 and she hasnt really showed at all- she did swell but she is a reduiculosly clean girl, so is cleaning constantly and i only noticed a little staining a while back (sorry, i had the days written down but cant find it!)
but i took her to stud on 31/10 (day 10) because she was throwing her tail for our neutered male, but she wouldnt stand for their stud- i was told by them that she was probably over it, but could it be possible that she simply hasn't quite reached phase 2 yet?

i know this a little of an information overload, but any and all advise will be greatly appreciated...

[Wrenee4]

If you take your girl to the vet for a progesterone test you would find out if she is ready or not for breeding. That is the only way to know for sure when she is ready.
Not sure what to tell you about your current breeder although if you are not on the same page with breeding perhaps you should go your seperate ways now.

[Mardelin]

Your girl being a maiden may be the reason for her not standing for the stud.
My question to you did you and the stud owner assist in the breeding. In other words; did you hold the girl for the stud and make her accessible to him and did the stud owner guide him. Maidens can be reluctant to breed and require intervention. Gently pin a scarf or light blanket around her neck, and draw the blanket lightly over her head so she can't see. Remembering all the while to hold onto her gently and make her accessible to the male. Do this before you bring the male in. The stud owner should be guiding the stud.

As far as the other question. All I can tell you is go with your heart. If you feel this breeder is of questionable character, then quickly establish a relationship with your acquaintance.

[BamaFan121s]

If you're not happy with the 'mentor' you are working with--and given what you have described, I think you are justified with your dissatisfaction--then I would cut ties. Her breeding ethics sound like they leave a lot to be desired. Don't settle, seek out better.

[HollyandMommy]

I'm not a breeder but I would not stay with someone I dont feel comfortable with.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

If you're not happy with the 'mentor' you are working with--and given what you have described, I think you are justified with your dissatisfaction--then I would cut ties. Her breeding ethics sound like they leave a lot to be desired. Don't settle, seek out better.

I agree with you 100%. Breeding is such a commitment, and serious business that I think you really shouldn't settle for whatever help you can get. Wait till you can find the right mentor to help you along. Good luck. I wish you and your little girl the best.

[FlDebra]

Just adding another vote to cut the ties with this chi/yorkie breeder. If you are finding out already so many ways you find her unethical, best to sever the relationship before it blows up and/or you are associated with her by others. I would try to cultivate your relationship with kuki's owner and see where that may take you.

Meanwhile, there is MUCH reading to be done here and other sites online. There are a few good books that can help too. I just tried to find as much information as possible and talk with anyone with experience. I did get some advice that I found contradictory, and I just thanked everyone and sorted it out as I went. Luckily the breeder/friend/mentor I had was a very caring lady who put her dogs first. Still, I learned even more here, because I did not always know what questions to ask. Here, so many people are posing questions, they cover more topics than one person could ever think to ask on their own.

[bellemarie]

yea, i think i'll politely cut ties with her- i only say politely because her stud is kukis father- and him and missy made a perfect match (and i want to keep another girl from missys last litter) and although i dont like her ethics, which i'm assuming is her True Colours, she does have one amazing male... is That wrong of me?

Mary,
when we went to their home, we went into the sitting room and, after the man rechecking her pedigree etc, he went and got the male. he got down on the floor and held kuki, but she kept trying to lie down... every few minutes-every 2 or 3 attempts from the stud- he was lifting kuki and waving her a little in a semi circle- and im assuming this was to keep the male interested. but kuki is quite a shy girl, so i think this may have put her off a little and i had considered saying this to them, but i dont want to be rude (or silly) because they have soo much more experience than me...
i will deffinately talk to him again tomorrow (because i really am hoping that i havn't missed kukis this time round) and suggest that and focus on keeping her calm... would her having a minute or two to become more familiar with her surroundings help (if the owners dont mind of course)?

thanks for all the advise- and i'll call my vet too tomorow to see about the progesterone test!
i'm hoping to begin showing with a pup from kuki and this male, so please hope this isn't too late!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bellemarie

yea, i think i'll politely cut ties with her- i only say politely because her stud is kukis father- and him and missy made a perfect match (and i want to keep another girl from missys next litter) and although i dont like her ethics, which i'm assuming is her True Colours, she does have one amazing male... is That wrong of me?

Mary,
when we went to their home, we went into the sitting room and, after the man rechecking her pedigree etc, he went and got the male. he got down on the floor and held kuki, but she kept trying to lie down... every few minutes-every 2 or 3 attempts from the stud- he was lifting kuki and waving her a little in a semi circle- and im assuming this was to keep the male interested. but kuki is quite a shy girl, so i think this may have put her off a little and i had considered saying this to them, but i dont want to be rude (or silly) because they have soo much more experience than me...
i will deffinately talk to him again tomorrow (because i really am hoping that i havn't missed kukis this time round) and suggest that and focus on keeping her calm... would her having a minute or two to become more familiar with her surroundings help (if the owners dont mind of course)?

thanks for all the advise- and i'll call my vet too tomorow to see about the progesterone test!
i'm hoping to begin showing with a pup from kuki and this male, so please hope this isn't too late!

The advice I gave you was from one of the top breeders in the US Jay Amon/Montclair (now deseased). She could complete even the most difficult of breedings. Even two virgins.

Another thing, ask if they know how to AI (artifically inseminate). I think I'd be a bit more comfortable with that anyway. Just a bit uncomfortable with what you've provided on these breeders. It could very well save your girl from an infection.

You're girl should have been held, her head facing you and your arm underneath her and spreading her for the male. Did the breeder dialate her. Putting on a surgical glove and applying KY Jelly to his little finger and gently dialating her.

[bellemarie]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Just adding another vote to cut the ties with this chi/yorkie breeder. If you are finding out already so many ways you find her unethical, best to sever the relationship before it blows up and/or you are associated with her by others. I would try to cultivate your relationship with kuki's owner and see where that may take you.

Meanwhile, there is MUCH reading to be done here and other sites online. There are a few good books that can help too. I just tried to find as much information as possible and talk with anyone with experience. I did get some advice that I found contradictory, and I just thanked everyone and sorted it out as I went. Luckily the breeder/friend/mentor I had was a very caring lady who put her dogs first. Still, I learned even more here, because I did not always know what questions to ask. Here, so many people are posing questions, they cover more topics than one person could ever think to ask on their own.

oh of course, i have got SOOO much good advise off here in the past, have read every ebook and library book on yorkies and general breeding, and have a downright geeky amount of books that i own for reference! i am going to any dog shows i can get to and talking to everyone who isn't to busy... (i only say this just incase anyone reads this thread as their only on mentors, and think if you have a mentor thats the researching done... thats only the beginning!)

i think with chi/yorkie lady, i'm just not going to contact her unless really nessesary, but still be civil... probbably the easiest route...

[bellemarie]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

The advice I gave you was from one of the top breeders in the US Jay Amon/Montclair (now deseased). She could complete even the most difficult of breedings. Even two virgins.

Another thing, ask if they know how to AI (artifically inseminate). I think I'd be a bit more comfortable with that anyway. Just a bit uncomfortable with what you've provided on these breeders. It could very well save your girl from an infection.

You're girl should have been held, her head facing you and your arm underneath her and spreading her for the male. Did the breeder dialate her. Putting on a surgical glove and applying KY Jelly to his little finger and gently dialating her.

thanks, i'll ask tomorrow...
sorry, i didn't explain that right. he held her the way you discribed with her head facing him, and held her in place for the male. then kept lifting her every few minutes and swaying her... is that a normal thing to do or does that strike even you as an unusual practice?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bellemarie

thanks, i'll ask tomorrow...
sorry, i didn't explain that right. he held her the way you discribed with her head facing him, and held her in place for the male. then kept lifting her every few minutes and swaying her... is that a normal thing to do or does that strike even you as an unusual practice?

I usually don't do anything with my girls other than keep them calm and still. Rubbing and whispering in their ear......Especially a maiden girl. She's nervous as it is, doesn't know what's happening.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bellemarie

oh of course, i have got SOOO much good advise off here in the past, have read every ebook and library book on yorkies and general breeding, and have a downright geeky amount of books that i own for reference! i am going to any dog shows i can get to and talking to everyone who isn't to busy... (i only say this just incase anyone reads this thread as their only on mentors, and think if you have a mentor thats the researching done... thats only the beginning!)

i think with chi/yorkie lady, i'm just not going to contact her unless really nessesary, but still be civil... probbably the easiest route...

I guess mentor to me has a whole different meaning. My mentor guided me through everything. How to train, how to handle, how to groom, what to read, what classes to take, how to study pedigrees, how pick a breeding pair, how to recognize a good structured dog, how to whelp, how to care for a litter, how to interview potential families. She taught me everything. That is what a good mentor is.

I think the word mentor on YT is often confused with coach or someone that will be there to help you through the whelping. Two different things.

[bellemarie]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I guess mentor to me has a whole different meaning. My mentor guided me through everything. How to train, how to handle, how to groom, what to read, what classes to take, how to study pedigrees, how pick a breeding pair, how to recognize a good structured dog, how to whelp, how to care for a litter, how to interview potential families. She taught me everything. That is what a good mentor is.

I think the word mentor on YT is often confused with coach or someone that will be there to help you through the whelping. Two different things.

i really do wish that there was such a high amount of people here with the passion for this breed as i have seen from the likes of the usa breeders. remembering that the woman i had concidered a mentor (literally the best i could find at the time) is now clearly a questionable breeder. the people willing to help someone out so much (for the right reasons) simply dont seem to be here... i really do hope that once i get out to more and more shows, and meet more of the few, my entire perception of that will change; and that i find someone that will be willing to help me out to the extent that yours, and ones like them, did- afterall there is an awful lot that cant really be learned 100% from a book...

see your point, the terms are confused a lot, and are at times misused- sorry bout that!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bellemarie

i really do wish that there was such a high amount of people here with the passion for this breed as i have seen from the likes of the usa breeders. remembering that the woman i had concidered a mentor (literally the best i could find at the time) is now clearly a questionable breeder. the people willing to help someone out so much (for the right reasons) simply dont seem to be here... i really do hope that once i get out to more and more shows, and meet more of the few, my entire perception of that will change; and that i find someone that will be willing to help me out to the extent that yours, and ones like them, did- afterall there is an awful lot that cant really be learned 100% from a book...

see your point, the terms are confused a lot, and are at times misused- sorry bout that!

No, I wasn't aiming my statement at you. Just stating the term mentor is often misused here on YT.

I do understand your frustration and hopefully you will be able to make contact with a true mentor. For now I know you are in need of a coach to assist you through the whelping process.