:rolleyes: Boy I see some things never change. I've been away for YT for a bit since I went back to school and this week I have a break and decided to come on YT to catch up and...another Shorkie, Morkie, Dorkie post :confused: And to top it off this new member (probably some old one under a new name) has the nerve to say don't be rude about her asking for a mutt seller :mad: on a PURE BREED Yorkshire Terrier forum! :thumbdown In the BREEDERS section at that!

Not that I'm defending that particular poster, because I'm not at all as I don't condone stirring up drama in someone's thread.

I do feel the need to say that people are coming here for solid advice because there is no place for them to go. There are no Morkie/Shorkie/Dorkie/insert whatever name here boards to go to, so they end up here.

I personally think it is better that they post here in the PUREBRED forums (as if that matters) and ask. They get told how to find a good shelter or to avoid puppy mills, etc. They aren't here to offend anyone, they just want a furbaby of their own and don't know where else to go to get reputable advice.

Would you rather they just buy from a petstore or a mill??? I sure wouldn't. I found out about the dangers of things here and I do not regret posting asking about mixes. I do apologize if it offends anyone, but I think that the people who point them in the right direction have the better take on responses.

Also, a lot of the advice on here pertains to a lot of different small dogs. It is still good information and I feel that people should have the right to ask questions, yes even in the PUREBRED forums, and receive advice on how to make the best choice for their furbabies, even if they are mixes. We love them just the same and YT is a great and helpful community. I like to think that they care about ALL animals. :)

Note: Maybe this is an opportunity to educate someone who doesn't know about rescues or tell them how great purebred Yorkies are! Some people think that purebreds are unhealthy due to inbreeding, now is your chance to dispel that myth. Others just think that purebred Yorkies are out of their price range (which many of them are, mixes are often much cheaper), but if you can do something to help them with that issue give some advice.

I think that the opportunity should be seized to educate and not just huff and puff about how this is a PUREBRED Yorkshire Terrier only community because I don't think it is. I saw a question about Labrador whelping (I think it was a lab, but I could be mistaken. It was definitely a large dog though). You don't see anyone giving THEM grief for posting on a YORKSHIRE TERRIER forum. They just received advice. I think that's what this community is for, to provide advice. Sure maybe you don't feel right pointing them to a mix breeder, but you can try to educate them however you see fit without being condescending.

I think Reese1 does a particularly good job of making nice posts about rescues and I notice they post in almost every mix thread. :)

Hmmm...I wonder why that is....

I acutally see people educated here all the time about mixed breeds as well as directed on how to find one without supporting unethical breeders in the process. What I don't see is people supporting people who purposely breed mutts or encouraging those who are on a mission to support those types of breeders.

No one here dislikes dogs that are not purebred. There just isn't a lot of support towards them being bred purposely.

Very nice comment----thanks for your thoughts. I agree lets educate !

I know that people are pointing others to shelters and other means... I approved of that. I mentioned that actually. I don't even see why you think we're at odds here... because we're not.

And the purebred comments weren't directed to the population as a whole or more specifically you (as you seem to have taken personal offense, and for that I apologize). I even said that I don't think that is what this community is like. I was directing that purebred comment to the person I quoted as they seemed to be obsessed with the purebred aspect of things when I don't really see that as important. I see educating as important.

I don't think that we are at odds at all as far as directing people to shelters...we are not at odds on that at all. :thumbup: I'm not sure where in my post that was implied.:confused:

As for your personally offending me, I can assure you, I'm not offended at all. It takes a lot more than that to offend me. :p

Your post just seemed to stress the lack of educating others more than anything else. That is where it seems we have a difference of opinion in regards to the responses normally given on this topic. I think there is far more "educating" that goes on...the "drama" generally comes from those who could care less about 'educating' and more about trying to control others. :)

First of all, I'm glad I didn't upset you because I totally did not mean to. :)

Oh! I see now. That isn't what I meant at all, but I definitely see how it could have come off that way.

I guess I was directing the "let's educate" more to those that weren't educating, such as the "don't be mean," "purebred," and perhaps even the "Honda" (although I'm not going to lie...I did chuckle at that one) posters, than the people that were providing advice already.

I probably should have acknowledged the people that were educating more to give the post better balance. I kind of thought I was doing that through saying that isn't how I think the community is and pointing to one example of a good poster like Reese1. I guess maybe I should have given more examples. Sorry about that.

In closing, I'd like to state that those who give good advice and educate are definitely the majority here. This community as a whole is very caring and very helpful in my opinion! Thanks for being so great guys (us newbies appreciate it :D )!

Hey, no worries. :)

So can someone recommend a good Shorkie "Breeder"? I don't want a purebred Yorkie and don't want to go to a shelter. I want a Shorkie from Champion Yorkie and Champion Shih Tzu bloodlines.

Do you even understand what a champion is? It just means that they are an excellent example of the breed and a great representative. Why would you then mix them with another breed? It a crap shoot on what you'll get, you aren't going to get the "best" of both breeds, there's no telling what you'll get and while it might look like one or the other breed wise, it won't be a good example of either. I mean why would you want a yorkie head on a Shih Tzu's body or visa versa, what's the point? Beware of breeders who advertise champion lineage, it's just a marketing ploy. Many breeders breed mixes because they didn't buy breeding rights to their pet dogs, and therefore can't register the offspring with the AKC, so they just breed them with any available dog, and tell inspecting buyers that AKC doesn't register mixes. People who buy from breeders without breeding rights are the same as those that buy stolen property.

Thank you for clarifying. I'll be a little frank and hope you can help. My family really likes the temperament and looks of a "shorkie", so I understand now why I shouldn't use the term champion loosely. You're right, in the end it really doesn't matter if the Sire and Dam are from champion bloodlines.

Having said that. My goal is to adopt a Shorkie that has genetically strong bloodlines, so my preference is to find a pup who's parents came from a strong and healthy past. There is a breeder that I found that has a AKC registered Shih Tzu and a IBC and CKC registered Biewer Yorkie. She mainly has been breeding purebreds of each, but does bred Shorkies as well.

Here are the questions that I have asked her so far. I am asking the right things? I just want a pup for my two girls 7 and 3 that will live a long and healthy life. I don't want explain five years from now why their puppy passed away. I guess I'm looking for you advice as knowledge and selective dog owners more than anything.

1) Do you have full Veterinary records for both Dam and Sire? Records that would show the mother and father have had no genetic or health issues.
2) Are the mother and father registered purebreds? If so, do you have documented history of their bloodlines?
3) Has a Vet certified mom and dad recently and can I contact your Vet's office?
4) Have any pups in the litter been sick? If so, please describe.
5) Do you have certificates for a clean bill of health on all of the pups in the litter that you can provide?
6) Do you have a breeders contract? Can you send me a copy of your contract for review?
7) What guarantee do you offer with your puppies?
8) Have the puppies been dewormed?
9) Do you have records of the genetic testing performed on both mom and dad?
10) List of references for pups from Dam, Sire, and other families that have adopted Shorkies from you?
11) What food do you feed the puppies?
12) What documentation did you receive from the breeders when you adopted the Sire and the Dam that I can see when my wife and I come visit? I'd like to see the bloodlines of the parents and proof of long good health. Written pedigree information.
13) Have you every owned show dogs?
14) Have the puppies had any exposure to children?

Again there is no such thing as a good breeder that mixes breeds. Much less from a Champion Yorkie or Shih Tzu.

If you truely wanted a mixed breed dog, read the entire thread, lots of advice on where to obtain one. But, not from anyone that has taken the time and money to Champion a purebred dog. "Most" exhibitor/breeders are reputable and understand that one breeds to improve the breed, not to convolute it.

what the heck? You really need to reread this whole thread and start at post one. I feel like I have deja vu.

Well said Nancy

I have been a professional pet groomer for almost 20 years now and I will tell you, mixes do not have a particular type or character regardless of the mix. The Shih Tzu mix you are referring to, can look anything from a yorkie to a shih tzu and everything in between including size, coat mixes, type etc. Also you should be aware, mix a Shih Tzu with any other breed and the result is most often pups with very very serious underbites that are detrimental. I have seen these mixes as big as 25 lbs and a terrible temperment.
I groom littermate sisters schnauzer/poodle mix and they look totally different, completely different coats, different temperment. You would never guess they were from the same litter much less same parents.

Looks like you have it covered. You've been given excellent advise on breeders that intentially cross breed. Ultimately the decision is yours should you choose to support such a breeder.

One more piece of advice; while genetic testing does provide a breeder that the breeding pair is devoid of certain afflictions, it does not guarantee that they are not carriers and will not pass on any such afflictions to the pups.

There is some articles on breeding/breeders in the YT library. I suggest that you read them.

"
Here are the questions that I have asked her so far. I am asking the right things? I just want a pup for my two girls 7 and 3 that will live a long and healthy life. I don't want explain five years from now why their puppy passed away."

What are you going to do after buying your three yr old a dog and it's dead (or dying) when she's 13...? Anyone who knows kids, knows 13 is a critical time...everything is a tragedy...First the little boy in 7th grade rejected her and she comes home to a dead or dying dog, everything is compounded. Don't buy a 3 yr a dog period, regardless of breed. Wait until they are older.
Trust me as a mother of 4

I have to agree with kjcmsw, we lost our lab mix (14 y.o) when I was 14, and I was absolutely devestated. There is a lot going on with you when your pre-teen to teenage years, and while it's painful to lose a pet no matter how old you are, those are crucial years and something that big is too much to handle. If you wait until your youngest is about 8 or 9 I think that would be better. They'll be more able to handle the responsibility and understand that puppies/dogs are fragile esp. when they're as small as yorkies.

There is no such thing as a "good" breeder of mutts. I would suggest maybe checking with a local puppy miller, perhaps? They seem to be all over that kind of thing. No REPUTABLE breeder would purposely breed them. Futhermore, "Champions" are typically owned by people with a passion for that particular breed--they are not going to use those dogs to cross breed.

You have already been given very good advice.
You have good questions down and if you are really concerned about the answers, then it should be the reason that you wouldn't buy a mixed breed dog from a breeder.
As it's been pointed out. Reputable & ethical breeders do not mix breeds.
Any breeder who has the best representation of any breed, wouldn't dream of mixing. You NEVER know what you will get with a mix!
I have a Yorkie-Poo that we adopted from a family who didn't want her. If you search on YT you will find lots of members with them and you will see a ton of different looks, shapes & sizes!
A breeder who is mixing, it's IMO all about the money. Which means they will typically not shell out money for all the proper testing, evaluating, etc..
The dogs can't be shown, registered, etc..
If you really want a mix, then a shelter or rescue is the way to go, otherwise you are really going to be buying from a BYB basically, despite how they market themselves!

Just wanted to add, I think the questions you have come up with are great. :thumbup: Certainly a good list to start with when looking for a pup. However, most of them really wouldn't matter if the dog in question is a mutt.

Since the poster's Profile does not provide info on their geographical area. I'll offer some info. If you live in the Lancaster, CA area, you will probably find the mix you are looking for (probably not of Ch. lines or any lines), but you'll have great luck there; Puppy Mill haven.

So are you saying that if one wants a mutt they should go to a puppy mill? I think that if a person is trying to research a breeder or what info they should obtain from a breeder, they may have done a little of their homework and are not looking for a puppy mill.

So are you saying that anyone looking to adopt a mutt should go to a puppy mill? If someone is trying to obtain information and research some things to ask a breeder, I think they may have done a little of their homework and the last place they would want to go is a puppy mill.

No one would suggest buying from a puppy mill. The point being made is reputable, ethical breeders do not breed mixes. They especially do not mix champion lines.
The advice is if you want a mix go to a rescue, shelter. Do not buy from a puppy mill, BYB, etc... They are breeding for profit.

I believe the point being made is that puppy millers and the likes are generally the types of breeders you find purposely breeding these types of dogs.

Welcome to YorkieTalk :)
There is so much knowledge that can be gained here and I hope you stick around. :thumbup:

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