Breeders I want your professional opinion on this Proposition. - Page 4 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

tegamom1 · 11-02-2010, 06:41 PM

With 36% of the precincts counted the prop is failing 58.1% to 48.1%.

blondschilli · 11-02-2010, 09:48 PM

AHHH not so fast we won!@!!! yeahhhhhhhh whhhoooooo!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to all whom voted Yes on Prop B. The dogs and pups thank you too.

: thumbup:

tegamom1 · 11-03-2010, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blondschilli

AHHH not so fast we won!@!!! yeahhhhhhhh whhhoooooo!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to all whom voted Yes on Prop B. The dogs and pups thank you too.

: thumbup:

AHHH....as I stated, only a small portion of the precincts had been counted.
I had no desire to stay up waiting for the final outcome...sorry. Congratulations, hope it works but I seriously have my doubts that it will stop the puppy milling in Missouri, but one can always hope.

FlDebra · 11-03-2010, 06:22 AM

At the very least it brought some attention to a serious problem. Maybe we could think of it as a baby step. I hope that it helps. MO is not the only problem state but we need to keep pushing for stronger laws and convictions in every state.

blondschilli · 11-03-2010, 06:55 AM

Yes, other states will soon follow, and together we will clean up this puppy mill mess and the dogs and puppys will thank you all for your help and concerns.

Mardelin · 11-03-2010, 07:04 AM

I hope it works, but I have serious doubts. Most of these HSUS bills are put into place not for the "welfare of animals" but, because some politician is scratching someone's back.

RachelandSadie · 11-03-2010, 08:58 AM

the amount of financial strains and hardships this is going to put onto MO families is really really bad. talk about over 600,000 in costs plus 100,000 start up costs and another 300,000 more in other costs...where is MO gonna get that money?? think of how many puppies will be put to sleep because they shut down another place and the rescues are all full and have been for a long time. if you like to watch HSUS come into an already financially unstable state and make a very stupid law that will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to MO families to pay for this...well thanks you got your wish. hope you are happy while i'm trying to survive on bread for the next 5 years. we already are dirt poor and barely getting by. now you've taken more of our funds to throw away and not actually change anything. puppy mills will still run off the radar and good breeders will go out of business causing puppy mills to be the only way to find a dog....smart one people!!! you really thought that one through. enjoy your fat millions while we suffer the financial loss.

yorkiegirl2 · 11-03-2010, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

the amount of financial strains and hardships this is going to put onto MO families is really really bad. talk about over 600,000 in costs plus 100,000 start up costs and another 300,000 more in other costs...where is MO gonna get that money?? think of how many puppies will be put to sleep because they shut down another place and the rescues are all full and have been for a long time. if you like to watch HSUS come into an already financially unstable state and make a very stupid law that will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to MO families to pay for this...well thanks you got your wish. hope you are happy while i'm trying to survive on bread for the next 5 years. we already are dirt poor and barely getting by. now you've taken more of our funds to throw away and not actually change anything. puppy mills will still run off the radar and good breeders will go out of business causing puppy mills to be the only way to find a dog....smart one people!!! you really thought that one through. enjoy your fat millions while we suffer the financial loss.

Well Rachel I'm sorry you are having a hard time but so is everyone.
You ask about the cost of 300,000 600.000 100,000 = 1,000,000
There were 993,860 YES votes and 933,540 NO votes = 1,927,400
So if each person that voted paid 1 dollar it would pay for this cost plus there would be 927, 400 left over that could be applied to inspectors or shelters, sounds like very little to help the dogs RIGHT !!
Also think about all the people who didn't vote, how much more money that could be pulled in. I don't think it would bankrupt anyone to give up the price of a cup of coffee or a soda DO YOU ??

Since it will not go into effect until November 2010 it gives breeders time to start reducing their stock.
Breeders who want to stay in breeding will take money they make in dog sales to update their kennels.
Those who do not will go out of business.

Any surplus dogs that the shelters can not handle, I'm sure will go to areas outside of Missouri.

As far as unlicensed breeders there is Bark Alert.

RachelandSadie · 11-03-2010, 12:24 PM

it's still a lot of money that will not be easy not to mention if many of the breeders go out of business where are they going to get the money to survive. if they flood the job market then it will cause others to not be able to find a job thus raising unemployment and raising the amount of money needed to help these people who are now going on welfare and unemployment checks, also taking good breeders out of business will leave us with only one type of breeder still operating "puppy mills" if we have no good breeders left people will start going to puppy mills to purchase pets because they have no other options but to find the off the radar breeders since we just put all the good breeders out of business and i can guarantee you that all the excess puppies that breeder have will not be given to other states, they will be mass euthanized probably not always in the most humane ways. it's going to be a big mess. not to mention people are now going to be getting a misdeamenor crime for a piece of kibble in their dog's water dish...that's really going to HELP??? this is the worst proposition that was on the ballot. they hid behind signs of dead dogs in kennels and they hid the truth on the ballot. people didn't read the details because if they had many more would have seen the light. HSUS had the money to spend on lobbying and commercial and the truth did not. HSUS is a giant organization that wants nothing more than to stir up troubles and drama and use their millions on their own pensions and lobbying than to actually spend some money to help shelters and rescues. they also want to completely wipe out all forms of dog and cat ownership and domestication of animals that means you will no longer be allowed to own an animal and eventualy all domestic animals will have to live alone in the wild. this is crazy and i do not support it at all...i am fuming mad and can't believe how much of my state was fooled.

clpony7 · 11-04-2010, 07:35 PM

Wow... I read the bill and well, I agree with yorkiegirl2 by the most part. I do not live in Missouri, but I am strongly against puppy mills. One of my breeder friends would be quite a border line, not by law, but by my personal opinions. Her dogs are usually dirty and not groomed, but they are loved as pets and not as money makers and are taken care of...My yorkies are my babies, my house pets that I chose to breed. As I have read in many places,breeding is a labour of LOVE. The owners should indeed have the choice of how often to breed dogs etc etc, but there should be a guideline that is for sure... I don't like how this is scraping the bare minimum and is actually doing things worse in a few ways and isn't covering pet stores and things mentioned by teresamag..My yorkies are put in the cages at night, and whenever I feel necessary, but they run freely most of the time. I have 5 and that is quite a bundle.. SO I have mixed feelings on this bill...

Elle · 11-05-2010, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tegamom1

AHHH....as I stated, only a small portion of the precincts had been counted.
I had no desire to stay up waiting for the final outcome...sorry. Congratulations, hope it works but I seriously have my doubts that it will stop the puppy milling in Missouri, but one can always hope.

Elle · 11-05-2010, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I hope it works, but I have serious doubts. Most of these HSUS bills are put into place not for the "welfare of animals" but, because some politician is scratching someone's back.

One can only hope. It's all we can do, right?

Elle · 11-05-2010, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blondschilli

Yes, other states will soon follow, and together we will clean up this puppy mill mess and the dogs and puppys will thank you all for your help and concerns.

I don't see that happening. Even if some states have places as bad as MO, people won't believe it. MO has made it's reputation. They are in a league of it's own. Which is sad because it takes the focus off the real issue in MO. Which makes commercial breeding the lesser of the evils. Dogs will continue to suffer in MO. Dogs do not belong in cages living their lives as breeding stock in little cages. They should be loved and spoiled! This is a distraction that pays the HSUS to turn their head looking the other way.

They aren't fooling me. I wish you were right. I love dogs and would love to clean all of them as much and more as anyone! I hope there is some positive things in this bill. One can hope, it's all we can do!

107barney · 11-05-2010, 06:50 AM

When I look at animal "welfare" laws, I always have the same feeling. Another piece of legislation that furthers the mission of some without the financial strings attached to truly enforce its provisions. And, what tends to happen with no enforcement is that things remain status quo. And for the little enforcement that might happen, it is just aiding the offenders at getting better at fooling the enforcement people. The sad fact is that in 10 years since I bought my puppy mill dogs (one came from good old Missouri -- and she's so far had a $30,000 price tag!) there has been little headway in reducing the problem not only in MO but in our country as a whole. The puppy mill where Daisy came from is alive and well. The broker who transported her to the Northeast still transports nearly 90,000 puppies per year. They are still doing what they are doing and they are doing it because no one is enforcing EXISTING laws that say the same thing!

Why is it continuing? Because as someone already pointed out politics but also supply and demand. The American buyer still wants a cute little puppy and they want it on an impulse. This is why the industry is still one of our most lucrative! As long as I can continue to walk into a petstore and buy a puppy or order one on the internet, there is no progress in my opinion. We can pretend it is a baby step but it's more of the same IMO.

11-02-2010, 06:41 PM	#46
tegamom1 Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 1,548	With 36% of the precincts counted the prop is failing 58.1% to 48.1%. __________________ Mary Ann A'Lea Yorkshire Terriers

11-02-2010, 09:48 PM	#47
blondschilli YT Addict Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hillsboro, mo , usa Posts: 340	AHHH not so fast we won!@!!! yeahhhhhhhh whhhoooooo!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to all whom voted Yes on Prop B. The dogs and pups thank you too.: thumbup:

11-03-2010, 06:22 AM	#49
FlDebra Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: FL Posts: 7,651	At the very least it brought some attention to a serious problem. Maybe we could think of it as a baby step. I hope that it helps. MO is not the only problem state but we need to keep pushing for stronger laws and convictions in every state. __________________ FlDebra and her ABCs Annie, Ben, Candy Promoting Healthy Breeding to the AKC Yorkshire Terrier Standard

11-03-2010, 07:04 AM	#51
Mardelin Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 14,776	I hope it works, but I have serious doubts. Most of these HSUS bills are put into place not for the "welfare of animals" but, because some politician is scratching someone's back. __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers*

11-05-2010, 06:50 AM	#59
107barney T. Bumpkins & Co. Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New England Posts: 9,816	When I look at animal "welfare" laws, I always have the same feeling. Another piece of legislation that furthers the mission of some without the financial strings attached to truly enforce its provisions. And, what tends to happen with no enforcement is that things remain status quo. And for the little enforcement that might happen, it is just aiding the offenders at getting better at fooling the enforcement people. The sad fact is that in 10 years since I bought my puppy mill dogs (one came from good old Missouri -- and she's so far had a $30,000 price tag!) there has been little headway in reducing the problem not only in MO but in our country as a whole. The puppy mill where Daisy came from is alive and well. The broker who transported her to the Northeast still transports nearly 90,000 puppies per year. They are still doing what they are doing and they are doing it because no one is enforcing EXISTING laws that say the same thing! Why is it continuing? Because as someone already pointed out politics but also supply and demand. The American buyer still wants a cute little puppy and they want it on an impulse. This is why the industry is still one of our most lucrative! As long as I can continue to walk into a petstore and buy a puppy or order one on the internet, there is no progress in my opinion. We can pretend it is a baby step but it's more of the same IMO. __________________ T. Bumpkins & Co. Washable Doggie Pee Pads (Save 10% Enter YTSAVE10 at checkout) Cathy, Teddy, Winston and Baby Clyde...RIP angels Barney and Daisy

11-03-2010, 06:55 AM	#50
blondschilli YT Addict Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hillsboro, mo , usa Posts: 340	Yes, other states will soon follow, and together we will clean up this puppy mill mess and the dogs and puppys will thank you all for your help and concerns.

11-03-2010, 08:58 AM	#52
RachelandSadie No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 5,748	the amount of financial strains and hardships this is going to put onto MO families is really really bad. talk about over 600,000 in costs plus 100,000 start up costs and another 300,000 more in other costs...where is MO gonna get that money?? think of how many puppies will be put to sleep because they shut down another place and the rescues are all full and have been for a long time. if you like to watch HSUS come into an already financially unstable state and make a very stupid law that will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to MO families to pay for this...well thanks you got your wish. hope you are happy while i'm trying to survive on bread for the next 5 years. we already are dirt poor and barely getting by. now you've taken more of our funds to throw away and not actually change anything. puppy mills will still run off the radar and good breeders will go out of business causing puppy mills to be the only way to find a dog....smart one people!!! you really thought that one through. enjoy your fat millions while we suffer the financial loss.

11-03-2010, 12:24 PM	#54
RachelandSadie No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 5,748	it's still a lot of money that will not be easy not to mention if many of the breeders go out of business where are they going to get the money to survive. if they flood the job market then it will cause others to not be able to find a job thus raising unemployment and raising the amount of money needed to help these people who are now going on welfare and unemployment checks, also taking good breeders out of business will leave us with only one type of breeder still operating "puppy mills" if we have no good breeders left people will start going to puppy mills to purchase pets because they have no other options but to find the off the radar breeders since we just put all the good breeders out of business and i can guarantee you that all the excess puppies that breeder have will not be given to other states, they will be mass euthanized probably not always in the most humane ways. it's going to be a big mess. not to mention people are now going to be getting a misdeamenor crime for a piece of kibble in their dog's water dish...that's really going to HELP??? this is the worst proposition that was on the ballot. they hid behind signs of dead dogs in kennels and they hid the truth on the ballot. people didn't read the details because if they had many more would have seen the light. HSUS had the money to spend on lobbying and commercial and the truth did not. HSUS is a giant organization that wants nothing more than to stir up troubles and drama and use their millions on their own pensions and lobbying than to actually spend some money to help shelters and rescues. they also want to completely wipe out all forms of dog and cat ownership and domestication of animals that means you will no longer be allowed to own an animal and eventualy all domestic animals will have to live alone in the wild. this is crazy and i do not support it at all...i am fuming mad and can't believe how much of my state was fooled.

11-04-2010, 07:35 PM	#55
clpony7 Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2010 Location: Maineville, Ohio USA Posts: 17	Wow... I read the bill and well, I agree with yorkiegirl2 by the most part. I do not live in Missouri, but I am strongly against puppy mills. One of my breeder friends would be quite a border line, not by law, but by my personal opinions. Her dogs are usually dirty and not groomed, but they are loved as pets and not as money makers and are taken care of...My yorkies are my babies, my house pets that I chose to breed. As I have read in many places,breeding is a labour of LOVE. The owners should indeed have the choice of how often to breed dogs etc etc, but there should be a guideline that is for sure... I don't like how this is scraping the bare minimum and is actually doing things worse in a few ways and isn't covering pet stores and things mentioned by teresamag..My yorkies are put in the cages at night, and whenever I feel necessary, but they run freely most of the time. I have 5 and that is quite a bundle.. SO I have mixed feelings on this bill...