Yorkshire is in England. Yorkshire is the "home" of the Yorkshire Terrier.
As far as I know Werner Biewer was German.

Yes, Mr Biewer was German and did his breeding in Germany and had his dogs registered in Germany. He used the word Yorkshire because they were Yorkies, born from his champion Yorkshire terriers.

I don't get the whole "diluting the black and tan lines" bit that I keep hearing. As long as pure black and tans are bred to other pure black and tans (which would mean knowing whether or not their were any parti's in the lineage), and parti's are bred to only parti's or parti carriers, then how does that dilute the lines? If anything, wouldn't it tighten it up and cause breeders to do a little more research on the lines they came from. And wouldn't that then, consequently, cause breeders to have to be more honest about their lines?

Standing on the outside looking in, I don't understand why breeders of black and tans wouldn't want parti's registered with the AKC. To me it looks like they don't want to admit that their lines may have a "flaw". If the registry is only as good and honest as the breeders, then by refusing to register those pups who carry the parti genes, the breeder is being less than honest. JMO.

"A Biewer is simply a Yorkshire terrier" There you go again making your own assumptions of what is and is not a pure bred Yorkie, the origin is of the utmost importance, why do you register your partis with the AKC if you are not all consumed with their presumed purity and status.

Anyway a little off topic, have you had any answers to your questions of missing pedigree information on the Biewer database, if there is missing information there will be a reason, a hidden agenda maybe. I have asked for information on many of the dogs in those presumed correct pedigrees, and no one has come forward, because they do not know. I would wonder if Frau Biewer could answer your questions. :aimeeyork

I am not making Assumptions, Schneeflöckchen was out of Mr Biewers 2 Junior Champion Yorkies. What part of that don't you comprehend?
Do you really think anyone would send you any info on these dogs? LOL

Anyway my questions were directed to the Biewer Clubs here in the United States, I got my answers. None of them have actually done much research beyond Darling and Fru Fru. And some think that they magically morphed into a cousin of the Yorkie when they hit US soil.

I'm sorry dear I believe YOU started this thread asking for info off Biewer Terrier members, but now I see you did not want answers to your questions. Fact is YOU do not know what happened in Herr Biewers Kennels or for that matter Lipmans either. Members are allowed to post replies, even if they do not agree with your unfounded remarks. If this upsets you I suggest in future not to post threads on the Biewer on a YORKSHIRE Terrier Forum :2omg:

Picking jaw up off floor.

Not sure which dear you're referring to, as there are so many dear members here :D. Regardless, all dears are welcome to post about Biewers on this forum :).

Yeah ... now where's that "ignore" button located? :eek:

;) LOL!! :p

How's your little tri girl today?

Gloria Lipman is not dead so therefore yes, I do know what happened.

Amen. thank You for what you have said...

Evab what makes you an expert on the Biewer. Most everything you say is either false info or does not make any sense.
1. You do not own a Biewer
2. There are no Biewers in the UK
3. There are no Parti's in the UK
4. You live in the Uk
5. You have never even seen a parti or a biewer.

I refuse to argue back and forth with you about this. You have no information to offer me that you haven t already posted 50 times over. You cannot back up one thing you say.
I have talked with people in Germany, One very important one as a matter of fact.
I have done months of research on the Biewer Yorkshire and I feel I am more than qualified to state the facts that I know and anyone can go to my website to read it and see the photos and pedigrees. I might add that some of those photos are ones you stole from my site and from me on the pedigree database.
Also the books you post on you site, you obtained the sites from the PYTC website.
I do know who is behind you on all your little displays, You guys will do any to try to discredit me anyway you can, even if it is lies. You are mad because I proved that the biewer is nothing more than a Yorkie and because of that they will never get into AKC as a separate breed. That is the fact of all your postings. Your postings are nothing more than GP trying to do anything she can to say that they are 3 breeds which just isn't so if they are a true Biewer Yorkshire A la Pom pon.

I read somewhere (clueless) :)

And THAT my "DEAR" deserves an AMEN! :thumbup:

-Diana :animal-pa

I cant believe with all the knowledgable Biewer people on here that no one answered this simple question.

Anyone????

I see you are making false accusations again against me. I was not going to post on this thread again,You cannot back up one thing you say., but I am sorry I will not be accused of stealing anyones material. The links to the archive's were in my personal reading armoury and site before they were on your site. I have original copies of most of that reading material and lots of photo's, plates from those books and our Dogs magazines. My website is not and has never been intended to offer you any information. I have already picked you up on information you posted incorrectly in as much as Nikko's Rolls Royse Ashley ever having won Crufts in 1984, which you very hastily removed from your site, after also putting my name on it, do you remember, or conveniently forget. Also websites who claim they read about the history of a dog in the (Shop-Keeper) when in FACT it is the Stock-Keeper 1886, show their ignorance of the books they do not read. Do not presume to tell me who I have and have not spoken to, my German is very good, as I am 1/2 German thank you, and my family live happily in the originating country for the Biewer. I own a Yorkshire Terrier a true British Dog, I know the history of that dog and her ancestor's. I research the history of all my dogs and shall support any organisation I see fit.
Do you really think anyone would send you any info on these dogs? LOL
You discredit yourself with rolling little icons, and the remark you made above, you had your own agenda in posting this thread, you did not want answers to your question, as I have already stated, you play games to discredit decent honest people, just because they have a mind of their own and will not listen to your dogmatic claims. I only ask people to do their own research into the history of the Pure bred Yorkie, I do not shove it down their throats, making myself an expert. And your claims of sending sperm to the UK, proves your personal quest to turn, good british stock into little TRI coloured "Parti" dogs. We have enough of those already, we have enough poor little dogs sitting in rescue centres, waiting to be loved and we have enough waiting on death row, because nobody wants them.
(And I prefer not to be picked off by members, just because I use the term "dear" in my posts, I use this term all the time, it is a normal word to use in the UK, if this is some sort of game to have me removed from this forum as a member, I cannot see how I have made any posts so intimidating to them as other members have made against my person on this thread and other threads):aimeeyork

I whole heartedly agree with Deb that you have shown us little to back up your claims, what I see is your opinion but not actual facts. You avoid answering questions by getting defensive and becoming condescending (and for future reference: in america using the term "dear" when speaking to someone you don't know well, would be considered patronizing by most).

Also, the Stockeeper article you refer to, was from 1887, not 1886 just for clarification. For some reason, spell check just doesn't like the word Stockeeper?

You say that your TRADITIONAL YORKSHIRE TERRIER website is not anti parti yorkie, but really a site to tell the truth about the blue and tan Yorkie ... if that is so, why didn't you just call the site "Yorkshire terrier" instead of Parti yorkshire terrier?

Also, earlier in the year, you denied that this site was yours, and now you are claiming it is yours? Why lie about it?

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3019440-post157.html

You say you don't shove it down peoples throats??? LOL then why do you have 3 websites doing just that, putting down the Biewer and the Parti?
Continuously going to parti or Biewer threads and posting the same ol stuff over and over.

You can find evidence of his yorkie breedings on line. He was a yorkie show exhibitor. Given that I find it difficult to believe he would suddenly decide to mix his championed dogs with another breed. Fru Fru and Darling were both championed yorkies

My personal opinion remains IF there was any other breed added...it happened at Streamglen. This is the single kennel that can be traced back in the pedigrees of both biewers and the parti yorkie. That is the common denominator. The paths Mr. Biewer took with his program and the parti breeders was different.

He breed selectively for 5 years before entering his dogs in the show ring. At this point there wouldn't have been a "need" to add another breed...his already carried the piebald gene.

The man passed away in 1997. His wife dispersed the dogs and I'm not surprised that records may have been given away or destroyed.

Yes the Nikkos line and the Biewer line do trace back to Streamglen, What about the tri color born in 1976 at Wildweir kennels. That was 8 years before Mr. Biewer had a tri and Wildweir does not trace back to Streamglen as far as I know.

That is again your opinion, I believe I have explained enough as to what I do for a living, with Pinehaven above. What I am unable to understand is your unhealthy interest in my personal life.
I post on many threads on this forum, and other forums and not just the above as you state. This thread originally asked BT people to answer your missing pedigree info, as a member of the BTCA and having researched that breed, I merely posted a reply for you to ask them directly, but as you clearly pointed out you do not wish anyone's input on this thread least of all mine should it not hold any agreeance to your views, why do you continually post to reference myself. I do not wish an answer to that question as I already know.:aimeeyork

Is there any documented proof to back this statement up please.
I have owned yorkies for many year's and never in england has a breeder from any kennel to my knowledge bred a traditional yorkshire terrier of tri coloring, Word has spread across the water about these little dog's with these marking's.

The uk breeder's are aware that there are so called breeder's breeding dog's here with this color from using a traditional yorkie with other breed's to create a dog of tri color and are indeed trying to pass it off as a yorkie, But there are no kc registration paper's to sugest this is a pure breed.
I think when so called breeder's here in the uk start to state that they have indeed come from an accredited breeder's kennel then breeder's will most certainly make there feeling's known and full documented proof will be asked for along with dna.
Accredited breeder's here in the uk have worked very hard to maintain there breeding line's and never has it come about that a yorkshire terrier of tri color has been bred here, I have never in 40 year's of owning yorkshire terrier's and know many accredited breeder's have ever seen a tri color yorkshire terrier.

Interesting Question Deb.. I'm sure if there is a connection to Streamglen, you'll find it.. my guess is that there were other lines experiencing the same results but not going to be easy tracking it down. Interesting also to note that the Streamglen kennel was in ENGLAND.. where we've "heard by experts" there are no tri colored yorkies or never have been... maybe they just start there and and don't produce '"spots" until they leave the country??


Diana :animal-pa

Yes, there were other lines, Kokopelli for one. Mrs Gordon would not comment on others that she knew about, She said"I don't have a problem writing about our Trippy, but since the others who bred mismarked dogs that I know about are deceased, I don't believe that I can comment on them after. I can only hope like you they seek the truth and not just rumors"

The lines can also be traced back to the Breechblock family, and Robert Deflection Quadrant.

I'm sorry if this sounds sarcastic, but I just don't know any other way to ask it so here goes.

As to the Streamglen connection:
It seems so very odd that one kennel could get dogs from Streamglen and wind up with partis (random patterned) and another could get dogs from Streamglen and get belted patterned partis (Biewer). What are the odds of that, especially with the Biewer? On its face, it stretches the bounds of credibility. Something was obviously 'up' somewhere, which brings the dogs' heritage into question.

As to the Biewer records, I would be very surprised that the records from someone that developed a new breed would be given away or destroyed. If they were given away, they should have surfaced by now, given the recent popularity of the dogs. Frau Biewer should certainly know where they are, as she would have been the one to give them away and she hasn't stated that they were destroyed. It seems a little too convenient. As an outsider looking in, the Biewer story reads like an urban myth.

These are Mr Biewers dogs. AS you can see they look just like the parti's. His dogs were just as random. Some had alot of black and some didnt.