When Bredding Goes Bad

[Elle]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

While I agree with John in a general way, it would have been nice if he had addressed the actual issue at hand. Apparently the person writing to him had not had a litter in 3 years and seemed to have no further interest in breeding but did have a behavior issue due to intact females. I feel it would have been better to comment on the health issues to the girls in leaving them intact, namely pyrometria, mammary cancers or another 'oops' breeding. This should have been stressed more, giving the letter writers the information that would hopefully prod them into doing the right thing. I don't think getting on a soapbox about bad breeding practices accomplished that.

Yes, the letter did remind me of things we see here at YT. Some threads just 'get to me', just like they do others. While some folks do need a good 'dressing down' for their practices, we should try to look for the real question and answer it. Skipping over the real issue usually only alienates the poster and, in the end, does the dogs no good and the dogs are always my focus.

My sentiments exactly. Even though we agree with him, I find it sad that he ignored her request for help. They need to be spayed, offer her low cost solutions, tell her how important it is to get it done because it is life threatening. Yes, it's part of the problem.

I'm as guilty as John in the moment. But thinking about what to say like this man is notorious for doing, we expect a more fruitful response.

He ignored the fact that she said the one bitch didn't show any signs of heat until 2 years old. Blind or maybe maybe she has hormonal issues?

I didn't see where she said she bred a bitch at 1 yrs old.

Maybe a nice neighbor will take one or three from her to help stop something bad from happening. You shouldn't have that many if you cannot afford to vet them and care for them properly. MUCH LESS BREED THEM!

[cj125]

Originally Posted by gemy

Well true enough, but in a newsarticle which what was said I heartedly agree with, has a different venue or audience.

You can tell it like it is with no sugar coating at all, but not in such a way that is a personal affront to the person.

There are many ways to phrase things, and I'm as "guilty" as the next, I see a post, I'm aghast, I type quickly my thoughts, I inside want to leap through the computer and just strangle some folks, so that somehow comes through. Yes I am judgemental, and critical, and so concerned for the health of our breed, that it is hard not to say "are you an idiot"?

I'm rambling a bit, but I think it is possible to make a strong point, without directly being combative or confrontive with the poster.

The very very sad reality is people will breed dogs indiscriminately, will be thoughtlessly cruel, and sometimes deliberately cruel, there will be folks that come on here only to sell pups, there will be folks who disregard all our advice to research the breeder then need advice support and help for their sick pup. It is so very hard to read the oh so familiar stories, day after day, year after year.

In the final analysis, I do believe that we can post the "truth" the facts without denigrating the poster. And in the long run, those that are willing to learn are open to understanding, will get the message.

Thanks for articulating this so well.

[cj125]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

While I agree with John in a general way, it would have been nice if he had addressed the actual issue at hand. Apparently the person writing to him had not had a litter in 3 years and seemed to have no further interest in breeding but did have a behavior issue due to intact females. I feel it would have been better to comment on the health issues to the girls in leaving them intact, namely pyrometria, mammary cancers or another 'oops' breeding. This should have been stressed more, giving the letter writers the information that would hopefully prod them into doing the right thing. I don't think getting on a soapbox about bad breeding practices accomplished that.

Yes, the letter did remind me of things we see here at YT. Some threads just 'get to me', just like they do others. While some folks do need a good 'dressing down' for their practices, we should try to look for the real question and answer it. Skipping over the real issue usually only alienates the poster and, in the end, does the dogs no good and the dogs are always my focus.

I'm in total agreement with you but - I think that the poor breeding practices should have been addressed as well.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by Elle

My sentiments exactly. Even though we agree with him, I find it sad that he ignored her request for help. They need to be spayed, offer her low cost solutions, tell her how important it is to get it done because it is life threatening. Yes, it's part of the problem.

I'm as guilty as John in the moment. But thinking about what to say like this man is notorious for doing, we expect a more fruitful response.

He ignored the fact that she said the one bitch didn't show any signs of heat until 2 years old. Blind or maybe maybe she has hormonal issues?

I didn't see where she said she bred a bitch at 1 yrs old.

Maybe a nice neighbor will take one or three from her to help stop something bad from happening. You shouldn't have that many if you cannot afford to vet them and care for them properly. MUCH LESS BREED THEM!

I think he should have stressed the cost of dealing with either pyrometria or mammary cancer and the writer could hacve seen the good sense in having them spayed. As you mentioned, there are low cost clinics that he could have told the writer about. Also, I've never heard of a bitch not having first heat until 2 full years and that would be another health concern.

What I'm getting from the breeding history is that the writer had a total of 3 litters. One each with Abby and her sister, apparently using an outside stud. She then got her own male she used with Abby and, from that, they kept Tasha, who has not been bred. It seems that they no longer have Abby's sister.

So now they have Abby, the male and the daughter, Tasha. And the issue is aggressiion with Abby towards Tasha. I don't see any overt bad breeding practices, though John assumes there were/are. To me, there just isn't enough info to infer that. If there were no prior temperament issues, the current ones cannot be held against the writer for past breedings. And there were no mentions of health testing or the lack of by the writer, but John assumes there wasn't and uses it as a take off point for his speech on bad breeding. His comments might be more valid if there were more breedings planned, but I don't see that.

What is clear to me is that the behavior problems are due to having intact females together. Abby is now beyond breeding age and Tasha is her male's daughter. There is no good reason to leave these girls intact. If cost is an issue, Abby should be seen to first. She is the one with the attitude problem and, being older, is at a greater health risk.

John gave a great answer....just not to the questions asked.

[Woogie Man]

Tried to edit but ran out of time. Using the stud at such a young age was a bad breeding practice on the part of the writer. This may have been what provoked the response by John. However, he failed to provide an answer to the issue at hand and it seems like the writer was done with breeding, so his point was moot.