What, in your esteemed opinion, is a "reputable" breeder?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Jorja Rules

Good points; however, this is the personal opinion (not facts) of one Cindy Moore who is obviously doing her part for the pet population. Kudos to her.



By your standards, perhaps. But again, that is a personal opinion.


Yes. Earlier, when we were considering spaying Jorja we had them both evaluated/examined by the two vets and a breeder who was neither dog's breeder.



Required by whom? Kennel Clubs? I don't care if my yorkies are registered or shown for that matter and I will not be suggesting to anyone who takes one of Jorja's pups that they are so that is a moot point. A good veterinarian (even though not breed-specific in her/his training & education) will be able to diagnose orthopedic, visual, liver, and any other problems. Which neither of these two Yorkies have.

No, a smear was not done in time, much to my chagrin.

Like I said in an earlier reply, it's too bad that this kind of questioning is not done on people before they reproduce. Sheesh!

While all are based as you say on opinion, these are basic rules of any reputable breeder. And if they are poo pooed, well that is very indicative of a BYBer justifying their reason for breeding.

Being evaluated by a vet???? and one other person?????

[Jorja Rules]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

You need to ask yourself where will your vet or your friend be at 2 A.M. and your girl goes into labor. Better yet, ask yourself where YOU will be at that time.

Believe me, I have been asking!

What I'm seeing is a totally inexperienced person, with a lot on their plate and a too small girl that is likely pregnant. If you you want to see her through this, you have to clear your schedule to be there for her, no matter what else is going on. What you describe as 'ideal' is in fact necessary, along with many other things. And don't think for a minute that it stops when the pups are born. A great many of us have lived on naps for days on end hand feeding pups, have driven ourselves crazy trying to get a picky Mom to eat, fretted over a pup not thriving...the list goes on and on.

That is exactly what you are seeing. Like I said, it wasn't the best time...and I *should* have had my wits about me and made sure the two were separated. BUT I DIDN'T and now I must make the best of the situation.
I appreciate your viewpoint and sharing them with me.

I'm unsure why you are asking these questions on this forum if you have a friend that bred Yorkies. Do you not trust their mentorship?

*sigh* Just to make conversation with others who share the joy of the breed. Maybe I'm not respecting others' time here on the forum.

The bottom line is that if you are asking such basic questions as that in your other thread, then you are unprepared, despite the people you cited. Time to get cracking on your research and fully understand the depth of dedication involved to not only help whelp this litter but see the pups through to their going to their new homes.

Oh I am the first to admit I am not prepared. Definitely past time to get crackin!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Jorja Rules

Were all the required tests performed on both? CERFs, OFA'd, bile-acids? These tests only inform you that the breeding pair do not have such afflictions associated with the tests, but it doesn't guarantee that their off-spring won't. Since this was an oops breeding, I don't think you had a smear done on both of them to make sure they had no infection that could cause a problem to the fetus.


Required by whom? Kennel Clubs? I don't care if my yorkies are registered or shown for that matter and I will not be suggesting to anyone who takes one of Jorja's pups that they are so that is a moot point. A good veterinarian (even though not breed-specific in her/his training & education) will be able to diagnose orthopedic, visual, liver, and any other problems. Which neither of these two Yorkies have.

No, a smear was not done in time, much to my chagrin.

Like I said in an earlier reply, it's too bad that this kind of questioning is not done on people before they reproduce. Sheesh!

Health tests have nothing to do with being registered by a breed club, if you had a good vet, he would have told you to get the tests. Vets don't have breed specific knowledge, and they have no idea of all the genetic illnesses troubling this breed.


"Dogs used for breeding should be free of all defects - that's the definition of quality. ("Papers" mean nothing; They are simply, and nothing more than, birth certificates. Plenty of dogs have "papers," but are so poorly bred they actually look like mutts.) And no human should ever breed any dog without veterinary/laboratory testing and pedigree research to be sure that dog is free of (and not a carrier of) genetic defects. FAILURE TO TEST/SEARCH FOR INHERITABLE HEALTH PROBLEMS IS THE NUMBER ONE MARK OF A BACKYARD BREEDER. IT IS ALSO THE MOST DAMAGING TO CANINES, AND THE MOST HEARTBREAKING TO PUPPY-BUYERS, WHO END UP WITH YET ANOTHER GENERATION OF POOR-QUALITY DOGS WHO TOO OFTEN DEVELOP EXPENSIVE, EARLY HEALTH PROBLEMS AND OFTEN DIE PREMATURELY." A COMPARISON OF: Responsible Hobby Breeders and Backyard Breeders/Irresponsible Breeders

[Elle]

Just what IS the purpose of YorkieTalk forums? Good question. Do you feel the purpose of a breed forum for breed lovers to support people that are harmful to the breed?

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Health tests have nothing to do with being registered by a breed club, if you had a good vet, he would have told you to get the tests. Vets don't have breed specific knowledge, and they have no idea of all the genetic illnesses troubling this breed.


"Dogs used for breeding should be free of all defects - that's the definition of quality. ("Papers" mean nothing; They are simply, and nothing more than, birth certificates. Plenty of dogs have "papers," but are so poorly bred they actually look like mutts.) And no human should ever breed any dog without veterinary/laboratory testing and pedigree research to be sure that dog is free of (and not a carrier of) genetic defects. FAILURE TO TEST/SEARCH FOR INHERITABLE HEALTH PROBLEMS IS THE NUMBER ONE MARK OF A BACKYARD BREEDER. IT IS ALSO THE MOST DAMAGING TO CANINES, AND THE MOST HEARTBREAKING TO PUPPY-BUYERS, WHO END UP WITH YET ANOTHER GENERATION OF POOR-QUALITY DOGS WHO TOO OFTEN DEVELOP EXPENSIVE, EARLY HEALTH PROBLEMS AND OFTEN DIE PREMATURELY." A COMPARISON OF: Responsible Hobby Breeders and Backyard Breeders/Irresponsible Breeders

Great link Nancy. I would just like to add one thing: People sometimes bridle at the label of being a "breeder". But the fact is, if your bitch is having pups- you have just crossed over from being a pet owner to a breeder. And it doesn't matter whether you intend to keep those pups or give them away instead of selling them. By keeping un-neutered pets in your home, you are assuming the risks of everything that can happen. The lives of those pups and their health for the remainder of their lives is your responsibility.

The only good reason for breeding is to better the breed. Breeding for profit or "just because I want to" is a form of animal abuse, IMO.

[Elle]

Originally Posted by Jorja Rules

Good points; however, this is the personal opinion (not facts) of one Cindy Moore who is obviously doing her part for the pet population. Kudos to her.



By your standards, perhaps. But again, that is a personal opinion.


Yes. Earlier, when we were considering spaying Jorja we had them both evaluated/examined by the two vets and a breeder who was neither dog's breeder.



Required by whom? Kennel Clubs? I don't care if my yorkies are registered or shown for that matter and I will not be suggesting to anyone who takes one of Jorja's pups that they are so that is a moot point. A good veterinarian (even though not breed-specific in her/his training & education) will be able to diagnose orthopedic, visual, liver, and any other problems. Which neither of these two Yorkies have.

No, a smear was not done in time, much to my chagrin.

Like I said in an earlier reply, it's too bad that this kind of questioning is not done on people before they reproduce. Sheesh!

Lots of excusing and excuses. Not a way to warm up to people. No need to ask for an opinions, only to put them down. Is she pregnant? Is it too late to have he spayed?

[chachi]

whats with all these people that want to breed lately and their bad attitudes.

[Rhetts_mama]

Like I said in an earlier reply, it's too bad that this kind of questioning is not done on people before they reproduce. Sheesh!

The general population would be better off if more thought was put in to reproduction in general.

However, in the case of the dogs, this is something we are doing TO them, they don't have a chance to say they'd rather not breed, thank you very much.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by chachi

whats with all these people that want to breed lately and their bad attitudes.

A bad economy isn't good for dog breeds. Good breeders cut back, and bad breeders come out of the woodwork. Unfortunately, many people see it as "easy money."

[lisaly]

Originally Posted by Jorja Rules

And Jeanie, please show me where I was asking for "help" of any kind. I know this forum well enough to know NOT to ask for help unless you are a long-time breeder of good reputation. I was merely asking for 1) other signs of pregnancy and 2) what the criteria is for a reputable breeder.

I am really puzzled by what you wrote. I found Yorkie Talk last summer, and I have spent a good amount of time reading posts by other people who share a passion for Yorkies like I do. I never considered for a minute breeding any of my Yorkies, so I can't speak from personal experience. I could not disagree with you more, though. I am so impressed with how dedicated many breeders here have not only to improving this beautiful breed, but to helping others who come to this site seeking assistance. Even when the person asking the questions is being totally irresponsible or doesn't seem to care about their own dog's wellbeing, many people will jump in to help. Sure, some discussions get heated, but it's usually when the original poster does not seem to heed any of the suggestions given. I applaud the responsible breeders here, and I have learned so much from their guidance of others.

I sincerely hope all goes well when Jorja has her babies. Good luck with your daughter's wedding also, and I hope things improve for your mother.

[gemy]

You seem to have some disdain for what goes on here in Yorkie Talk, and yet some suggestions to improve the functioning of Yorkie talk. I find that refreshing.

First your vet should have (but of course vets are not breed specific, and most vets aren't repro vets) but let's put that aside for the moment, of course let's not put aside that most breed fanciers, and potential breeders know those two basic facts.

A vet can evaluate basic structure, but unless they are breed specific judges/long term breeders of Yorkies can not even begin to tell you if this dog is worthy of being bred.

Let's look at another perhaps the first basic requirement to insure this dog is healthy enough to be bred. Did he do BATs, CERF, and OFA before he deigned to evaluate your dog. Did this vet even mention it should be done?


You may sneer at these tests but have you looked at the 2007 Health survey of Yorkies, do you know the incidence of the crippling conditions in this breed? does your vet?

We can post all the lists you might think worthy, but unless people read them, it is so much fodder in the wind.

And NO I Don't think Yorkie Talk should post warnings et al. I believe there are many threads for sharing our love and joy of this breed that are best served within a chat/response forum.

I think as smart in at least one way I suspect you are, you had an agenda, mayhap that agenda has been fullfilled. IDK

We will always help someone in need, despite what we think about motives, and even their care of their Yorkies. For at the end of the day we are here to protect our beloved breed no matter whose hands they may find themself in.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Jorja Rules

What snotty attitude? I'm being as sincere as the day is long! I'm being honest but I am no stick in the mud. I apologize if you feel my posts are "snotty." I mean no disrespect.

And Jeanie, please show me where I was asking for "help" of any kind. I know this forum well enough to know NOT to ask for help unless you are a long-time breeder of good reputation. I was merely asking for 1) other signs of pregnancy and 2) what the criteria is for a reputable breeder.

Ooops you must have misread. I said HOPING for help, did not say that you asked.

I was referring to when she starts to whelp and you have NO CLUE what to do when she runs into trouble, because you did not bother to do your homework ahead of time. Because if you had, you would know the other signs of pregnancy

And yes your replys were very sarcastic and snotty.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Ooops you must have misread. I said HOPING for help, did not say that you asked.

I was referring to when she starts to whelp and you have NO CLUE what to do when she runs into trouble, because you did not bother to do your homework ahead of time. Because if you had, you would know the other signs of pregnancy

And yes your replys were very sarcastic and snotty.

Well of course dependant on interpretation, she is smart, and stands just <this side of> of slipping from ingenue and mayhap mocking respect , to sarcastic.

[Elle]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

A bad economy isn't good for dog breeds. Good breeders cut back, and bad breeders come out of the woodwork. Unfortunately, many people see it as "easy money."

Is it me or do you also see people justifying things by saying "I'm not making money from her, not selling them, not registering, only having liter, just want a puppy for my cousin, etc".


If people don't care enough of her to spay her, what will become of her offspring shall they make it?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Elle

Is it me or do you also see people justifying things by saying "I'm not making money from her, not selling them, not registering, only having liter, just want a puppy for my cousin, etc".


If people don't care enough of her to spay her, what will become of her offspring shall they make it?

No it isn't just you......There is a lot of justification going on.