Originally Posted by magicgenie (Post 3219917)

It's wonderful this thread has lasted this long and I'm happy to see the puppy mill situation being discussed here. With Ethics being at the core of YTCEHB, it is very appropriate to tackle puppy mills and brokers here.
While on the one hand I could support tougher legislation, we have to handle that very delicately so as not to have it harm the small breeder who is doing things correctly.
At first I LOVED YorkieRose's suggestion about requiring chipping and holding the breeder accountable for dogs they produced showing up at a shelter. I would do that. But then I started to wonder if that would just drive the bad breeders further underground.
I'm all in favor of keeping media attention on the puppy mill industry and concentrating on educating the public about what they are supporting when they buy pets in stores.
Reminds me of last Christmas when I had a litter of very nice puppies and a man from a nearby wealthy town phoned looking for one. He didn't seem interested in price, nor in discussing quality, seemed kind of rushed and inconvenienced that I was a few miles away. I was thinking so far he didn't seem like a good prospect for my puppy but I went ahead and booked the appointment for him and his wife to visit, hoping they would show more interest in the important things when they got here. I have no difficulty sending people away without a puppy if something about them bothers me. Well, the wife phoned the next day to say they were cancelling the visit because they "went to a nearby mall and found a nice one with a warranty and everything."
This puppy mill stuff has to be kept constantly in the news and everybody's face until they get it that buying a puppy in a store is a very bad thing.
Anyway, thanks everybody for keeping the discussion civil. That's very nice.

Originally Posted by gardenyorkies (Post 3219974)

Jeanie I certainly hear your tone in the last several posts you have made...I don't think Yorkiekist has made the personal attacks that you have made here...Can we just be civil and exchange opinions?...Just sayin'

Originally Posted by gardenyorkies (Post 3219974)

Jeanie I certainly hear your tone in the last several posts you have made...I don't think Yorkiekist has made the personal attacks that you have made here...Can we just be civil and exchange opinions?...Just sayin'

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3219973)

Closing all pet stores would be a very good very HUGE first step. Maybe that shoud be our focus.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3219992)

At least breeders who sell to pet stores have to be listed with the USDA, and have some federal regulation, those that sell over the internet and directly to the public have no federal regulation, so closing pet stores would do little to stop puppy mills.

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3220012)

I believe that closing pet stores would stop the impulse buying and would eliminate at least one outlet for puppy mills.

JMO But I don't believe that the USDA does a very good job of policing the puppymills. The miller can set up one very nice kennel to get licensed and to use for inspections, then go on to keep dogs in buildings off the premesis.

The licensing is just like the AKC registration, it gives people a false sense of security.

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3220025)

Closing pet stores would limit impulse buying to some extent. But it wouldn't stop the person who picks a puppy from the ad in the newspaper or internet. Just because someone doesn't breed more than 50 pups a year doesn't mean they are a good breeder or that they aren't a small scale puppy mill. Unfortunately, some of the sickest dogs I've seen have come from the small scale backyard breeder.

My best friend lives in Bakersfield. Her neighbor across the street flies just under the "puppy mill" radar. She gets away with it by having pens instead of cages. The pups (dachsunds) are never in doors (despite the heat there in the summer) and completely unsocialized. My friend has called animal control several times, but because she doesn't breed what ever the requisite number required for licensing, there isn't much they can do. Of course, we found out that some of her dames are registered in her daughter's name- so technically they aren't hers... As long as they have shade, food and water and the pens are "reasonably clean" (meaning limited visible feces, though the urine smell is overwhelming in the summer), their hands are tied.

It would be interesting to do a study to see how many people have bought from a pet shop versus a private breeder. It's just my personal opinion that I believe more people have gotten their impulse puppies from the paper instead of the store.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3219992)

At least breeders who sell to pet stores have to be listed with the USDA, and have some federal regulation, those that sell over the internet and directly to the public have no federal regulation, so closing pet stores would do little to stop puppy mills.

Originally Posted by YorkieRose (Post 3220041)

It would have a huge effect...Huntt Corp would go bust..! It would cut volume breeding way back. The easy part for the miller is to produce puppies the way the farmer produces apples...grow them, truck comes, pays the farmer and takes them to the market where they are sold..same for breeder who sell to a broker liek Huntt, they have an ready and demanding market for their product...
..
If they had to sell 100, 200, 300 puppies by way of the Internet each year...and that is conservative for many...it would be a difficult job. The public is getting wiser each say to the internet rip offs. Every complaint would fall right back on them, not the pet shop. Complaints should be reported to county and states and investated...huge fines for violators...

It is not so easy to move large volumes of dogs without a middle man like Huntt corp..no one comes back at these breeders if the puppy is unhealthy, unsocialized etc...the pet shop gets the grief..the pet shop may stop dealing with a problem breeder, but doesn't look like most do.,or there wouldn't be so many sick puppies coming out of pet shops, right.