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-   -   Yorkshire Terrier Club of Ethical Hobby Breeders (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/208797-yorkshire-terrier-club-ethical-hobby-breeders.html)

Disney 07-28-2010 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3216967)
Yup that is what we parti breeders are doing. So how is that any more wrong than the traditional breedrs who breed outside of the standard. A fault is a fault.

So see there is a double standard here. It's OK to do it if you are breeding traditionals, but not OK if you are breeding partis. So it is "do as I say, not as I do"
I think you miss point. They breeding to BETTER breed. They breeding OUT fault. Parti breeding FOR fault.

JeanieK 07-28-2010 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disney (Post 3216961)
I hope this quote post help.

It different because they breed out fault. Parti breeding FOR fault, direct against standard.
NO they do not breed out the fault, some of the offspring still have it.

We are working to develop the parti color. I imagine with all the other breeds that have different colors, people were bashed for developing those colors also, but eventually they were accepted.

JeanieK 07-28-2010 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disney (Post 3216970)
I think you miss point. They breeding to BETTER breed. They breeding OUT fault. Parti breeding FOR fault.
And we are doing the same thing with the parti color, working to better it.

We do not belong to the YTCA, we did not pledge to uphold their rules, we are not mass producing substandard dog, we are not doing anything unethical.

Disney 07-28-2010 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3216973)
NO they do not breed out the fault, some of the offspring still have it.

We are working to develop the parti color. I imagine with all the other breeds that have different colors, people were bashed for developing those colors also, but eventually they were accepted.
I feel you twisting my word to suit your logic. You intelligent lady, I no you understand what I trying to say.

I won't comment on introduce parti colour because I still research whether they 'natural occurrence' or not. So far, I belief not because believe they have mutt not just yorkie. So until finish research, I leave that to more experience lover of the beautiful standard to debate.

Nice to have civil debate with you Jeanie! :)

Disney 07-28-2010 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3216976)
And we are doing the same thing with the parti color, working to better it.

We do not belong to the YTCA, we did not pledge to uphold their rules, we are not mass producing substandard dog, we are not doing anything unethical.
I think many many many MANY yorkie lover disagree that parti breeder are not producing poor quality dog.

JeanieK 07-28-2010 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 3216928)
Disney,

Let me add.....breeding a dog is not as simple as all that....breeding out of standard is.

Let's say you have a dog with a low tail set (a fault), but has all the other attributes that is desired within the standard. As a breeder you would want to correct that fault, so you breed it to a dog that can correct that low tail set faults. There is no perfect dog and a breeder that understands this and canine genetics, knows how to correct faults.....The same with bad ear sets, rears, fronts, laybacks, toplines, etc.
So why not just NOT breed that dog in the first place? Why not just breed champions that have no faults?

You are not breeding the fault out of that dog, it still has the fault, and so do half of the offspring.

What you are saying is that if you breed a traditional, that meets the standard, to a parti, and you get all carriers, That would be OK?

If you breed two CH carriers together and half of the puppies are traditional and half are partis, is that OK?

You see what I mean about not being all black and white?

JeanieK 07-28-2010 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disney (Post 3216978)
I think many many many MANY yorkie lover disagree that parti breeder are not producing poor quality dog.
But that it is just a color. that does not make them, poor quality, just makes them the wrong color.

A dog with a bad tail set is not good quality either.

BamaFan121s 07-28-2010 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3216957)
But as I pointed out. Exhibitor/breeders do it all the time. They will breed a dog that does not meet the color standard in iorder to improve the color in their line. they will breed bitches over 7 pounds if she is correct in every other way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disney (Post 3216970)
I think you miss point. They breeding to BETTER breed. They breeding OUT fault. Parti breeding FOR fault.
I understand the point being made here...II don't understand why the logic is so confusing...:confused: Breeding two dogs that will produce offspring that are a better representation of the breed. Isn't that what breeders are supposed to do...carefully select a pair that will compliment each other and correct any flaws?

The difference, as I see it, would be be the goal in what you are trying to produce as the end result--dogs that meet the standard vs those that don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3216973)
NO they do not breed out the fault, some of the offspring still have it.
I would think that in that case, any pups that inherited the fault would be placed as pets and not used for breeding--that only quality pups where the fault was corrected as desired would be used to further the line. That wouldnt' really be different from any other breeding, would it? Holding back specific dogs for breeding?

JeanieK 07-28-2010 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disney (Post 3216977)
I feel you twisting my word to suit your logic. You intelligent lady, I no you understand what I trying to say.

I won't comment on introduce parti colour because I still research whether they 'natural occurrence' or not. So far, I belief not because believe they have mutt not just yorkie. So until finish research, I leave that to more experience lover of the beautiful standard to debate.

Nice to have civil debate with you Jeanie! :)
The AKC Dna'd 42 litters of puppies and their ancestors before they were convinced that the color was naturally occuring in the yorkie breed. They are the experts on dogs and genetics. I respect their professional decision

Historical documents that go way back to the beginning, talk of white yorkies.

The leading authorities on the Yorkie breed say they had parti colored yorkies in their line.

These are professionals, they wrote the book on yorkies. maybe you should read their book.

Rhetts_mama 07-28-2010 07:58 AM
So how is breeding for what is perceived as a fault in color any different than breeding dogs that are too tiny to be healthy? From what I'm reading of the standard, because there is no minimum weight stated, someone with a tiny girl could show and potentially win. - Now I know the breeders here will state that would never happen because the judges all know what is considered a good breed specimen and a 3 lb girl isn't "it". But it's still not listed as a fault when an otherwise healthy dog that meets the standard in every way except being the "wrong" color is considered faulty.

Sorry- I don't mean to be confrontational here, but I truly don't understand the thinking that is going on here with the YTCA.

Brooklynn 07-28-2010 07:58 AM
Here's the thing....no dog is perfect and you'll never achieve the perfect dog it's just not going to happen.
The Parti color is a DQ in the Yorkshire Terrier Standard...so therefore that is not what should be in the show ring and should be in a pet home. Until that changes it's simple breed to the standard. A low tail set is not a DQ and a yorkie can have a level top line with a low tail set but of course you want to improve on that tail set so you breed to a yorkie that has a good tail set. All dogs have faults you breed to improve those faults. A Parti is a DQ so of course you shouldn't be breeding for that. Of course the siblings will inherit what is a fault so there for you place in a pet home and keep and show/breed the better quality one and keep on improving on the one that is the better representation of the breed.

JeanieK 07-28-2010 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 3216987)
I understand the point being made here...II don't understand why the logic is so confusing...:confused: Breeding two dogs that will produce offspring that are a better representation of the breed. Isn't that what breeders are supposed to do...carefully select a pair that will compliment each other and correct any flaws?

The difference, as I see it, would be be the goal in what you are trying to produce as the end result--dogs that meet the standard vs those that don't.



I would think that in that case, any pups that inherited the fault would be placed as pets and not used for breeding--that only quality pups where the fault was corrected as desired would be used to further the line. That wouldnt' really be different from any other breeding, would it? Holding back specific dogs for breeding?
my question is, why breed the dog with the fault in the firxst place. Why not find another correct dog to breed to?

JeanieK 07-28-2010 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3216992)
Here's the thing....no dog is perfect and you'll never achieve the perfect dog it's just not going to happen.
The Parti color is a DQ in the Yorkshire Terrier Standard...so therefore that is not what should be in the show ring and should be in a pet home. Until that changes it's simple breed to the standard. A low tail set is not a DQ and a yorkie can have a level top line with a low tail set but of course you want to improve on that tail set so you breed to a yorkie that has a good tail set. All dogs have faults you breed to improve those faults. A Parti is a DQ so of course you shouldn't be breeding for that. Of course the siblings will inherit what is a fault so there for you place in a pet home and keep and show/breed the better quality one and keep on improving on the one that is the better representation of the breed.
Why not just get another champion and breed that?

BamaFan121s 07-28-2010 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3216981)
So why not just NOT breed that dog in the first place? Why not just breed champions that have no faults?
You make that sounds so simple. :p This concept would is a prime candidate for what you have referred to as 'not being so black and white.'

Do you follow this logic in your own program? Does anyone?

JeanieK 07-28-2010 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3216991)
So how is breeding for what is perceived as a fault in color any different than breeding dogs that are too tiny to be healthy? From what I'm reading of the standard, because there is no minimum weight stated, someone with a tiny girl could show and potentially win. - Now I know the breeders here will state that would never happen because the judges all know what is considered a good breed specimen and a 3 lb girl isn't "it". But it's still not listed as a fault when an otherwise healthy dog that meets the standard in every way except being the "wrong" color is considered faulty.

Sorry- I don't mean to be confrontational here, but I truly don't understand the thinking that is going on here with the YTCA.
me either. or those breeders who excuse using dogs that do not meet the standard, in order to better the breed. They didn't better anything. the dog still has the fault and so do half of the offspring. So how did that better the breed.

What it did was to better their line. Not the entire breed.

What we are all dloing is competing with ourselves. trying to make the next generation better than the last. And that is the challenge that keeps us all breeding.


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